Author Topic: What Are You Looking At?  (Read 4765 times)

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Offline ajax13

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What Are You Looking At?
« on: December 10, 2011, 02:50:47 PM »
http://www.documentary-film.net/search/ ... p?&ref=150

I was quite astounded by the interviewee's claims at around 30 min.  I have never heard the statements about a Mauser rifle being found in the Schoolbook Depository.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"AARC will go on serving youth and families as long as it will be needed, if it keeps open to God for inspiration" Dr. F. Dean Vause Executive Director

"...based on an understanding that addiction is a chronic relapsing disease that makes people more vulnerable to overdose after they've been in treatment."  Zontar?

Offline ajax13

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Re: What Are You Looking At?
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2011, 04:20:55 PM »
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/evidence-of-revision/

This is a much better site.  No time limit, and the whole doc is available at once.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"AARC will go on serving youth and families as long as it will be needed, if it keeps open to God for inspiration" Dr. F. Dean Vause Executive Director

"...based on an understanding that addiction is a chronic relapsing disease that makes people more vulnerable to overdose after they've been in treatment."  Zontar?

Offline Anonymous

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Re: What Are You Looking At?
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2011, 10:28:09 AM »
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« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 10:32:54 PM by Anonymous »

Offline Xelebes

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Re: What Are You Looking At?
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2011, 01:01:39 PM »
The experiments may have stopped in the mid 60s, but the programs started popping up then.  I think they were done experimenting by then and were just barging ahead with it, if that makes sense.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: What Are You Looking At?
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2011, 01:10:35 PM »
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« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 10:32:40 PM by Anonymous »

Offline ajax13

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Re: What Are You Looking At?
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2011, 01:28:18 PM »
Quote from: "Xelebes"
The experiments may have stopped in the mid 60s, but the programs started popping up then.  I think they were done experimenting by then and were just barging ahead with it, if that makes sense.

The "programs" had been popping up since the First World War.  The subject population changed.  Soldiers were suitable subjects, as they were already experiencing behavior modification and deference to institutional hierarchy.  Prisoners were great too, for the same reasons.  Adolescents proved to be the ideal subjects as the procedures could be sold as life-saving, society-preserving money-makers.

Could you please present some evidence that the experimenting stopped in the mid-sixties?  Lexington Farm had certainly not ceased experimental procedures by the mid-sixties.  Do you suppose that the professional interrogators at Camp X-Ray, Abu Grahib and every black site from Poland to Turkmenistan pulled out some mouldy Kubark manual, printed up in 1963 for use in South-east Asia?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"AARC will go on serving youth and families as long as it will be needed, if it keeps open to God for inspiration" Dr. F. Dean Vause Executive Director

"...based on an understanding that addiction is a chronic relapsing disease that makes people more vulnerable to overdose after they've been in treatment."  Zontar?

Offline Anonymous

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Re: What Are You Looking At?
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2011, 02:12:26 PM »
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« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 10:32:15 PM by Anonymous »

Offline ajax13

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Re: What Are You Looking At?
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2011, 02:38:54 PM »
I don't know what you mean that the experiments" seem to end in the sixties.  Lexington Farm was operating until 1975, that is a fact not subject to dispute.  There is evidence of CIA experiments continuing into the seventies, and this evidence is from mainstream, reasonably accessible sources.  My grandmother sent me a little plaque when I was small, and it said, "You aren't learning anything when you're talking."  Does that make sense?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"AARC will go on serving youth and families as long as it will be needed, if it keeps open to God for inspiration" Dr. F. Dean Vause Executive Director

"...based on an understanding that addiction is a chronic relapsing disease that makes people more vulnerable to overdose after they've been in treatment."  Zontar?

Offline Anonymous

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Re: What Are You Looking At?
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2011, 02:52:06 PM »
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« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 10:31:58 PM by Anonymous »

Offline ajax13

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Re: What Are You Looking At?
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2011, 02:57:07 PM »
Quote from: "Wayne Kernochan"
Does "Go fuck yourself" make sense? Don't take what I say out of context and get arrogant with me ya little piss ant

In the context of your frustration with your inadequacy, of course it does.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"AARC will go on serving youth and families as long as it will be needed, if it keeps open to God for inspiration" Dr. F. Dean Vause Executive Director

"...based on an understanding that addiction is a chronic relapsing disease that makes people more vulnerable to overdose after they've been in treatment."  Zontar?

Offline Anonymous

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Re: What Are You Looking At?
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2011, 02:59:40 PM »
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« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 10:31:40 PM by Anonymous »

Offline Xelebes

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Re: What Are You Looking At?
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2011, 03:57:05 PM »
Quote from: "ajax13"
Quote from: "Xelebes"
The experiments may have stopped in the mid 60s, but the programs started popping up then.  I think they were done experimenting by then and were just barging ahead with it, if that makes sense.

The "programs" had been popping up since the First World War.  The subject population changed.  Soldiers were suitable subjects, as they were already experiencing behavior modification and deference to institutional hierarchy.  Prisoners were great too, for the same reasons.  Adolescents proved to be the ideal subjects as the procedures could be sold as life-saving, society-preserving money-makers.

Could you please present some evidence that the experimenting stopped in the mid-sixties?  Lexington Farm had certainly not ceased experimental procedures by the mid-sixties.  Do you suppose that the professional interrogators at Camp X-Ray, Abu Grahib and every black site from Poland to Turkmenistan pulled out some mouldy Kubark manual, printed up in 1963 for use in South-east Asia?

If you want to reach very far back, you can find yourself in the 1840s at the start of the Temperance Movement.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Xelebes

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Re: What Are You Looking At?
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2011, 04:58:22 PM »
Which brings up a good point: what caused the whole temperance movement?  Most articles will say that it was a revulsion against the increasing instances of alcohol abuse in Britain and the Continent and the increasing presence of it in the urbanisation of the countries.  Is it possible to surmise that the whole temperance movement is merely scapegoating and drawing away the attention from the deteorating working conditions - the very same working conditions that led to the European Spring of 1848?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline ajax13

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Re: What Are You Looking At?
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2011, 12:05:10 AM »
If you want to reach very far back, you can find yourself on the savannah of Africa 700 000 years ago.  The temperance movements arose in the Anglo countries generally, not in the European nations that experienced revolts in 1848.  I would be hard-pressed to describe the temperance movements as the equivalent of scientific experiments conducted with the aim of discovering methods of controlling people through psychological manipulation.  Craiglockhart falls within that description; I don't know that the Women's Christian Temperance Movement does.  No hard feelings, Wayne.  I was hoping Xelebes would enlighten us with his evidence that the mind control experiments stopped in the sixties, what with the indisputable fact  that the Seed and Straight were receiving federal funds, and the Seed was determined to be experimental by at least one government investigation.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"AARC will go on serving youth and families as long as it will be needed, if it keeps open to God for inspiration" Dr. F. Dean Vause Executive Director

"...based on an understanding that addiction is a chronic relapsing disease that makes people more vulnerable to overdose after they've been in treatment."  Zontar?

Offline Xelebes

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Re: What Are You Looking At?
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2011, 12:58:51 AM »
I have no evidence to offer, quite frankly.  I'm just offering some possible reasonings - I don't have the resources to go find any evidence, although I will be taking auditing courses in the next semester and some.  

To put what I've so far been able to read from here and elsewhere, the programs were not experiments themselves but for the most part fleshed out ideas of the developments made in the 30s-60s.  Other experiments were being conducted, but I don't think they played a material role in the development of the Synanon-styled programs.  It has been more mimickry than trying anything remarkably new since the end of the 60s.

The only other cases where the development of aversives was being tried do not resemble Synanon, but rather relied on hardware, as far as I have seen.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »