Author Topic: What is the economy anyway ??  (Read 9453 times)

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Offline Froderik

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the truth
« Reply #90 on: November 11, 2011, 09:32:38 AM »
Quote from: "Dethgurl"
Imaginary enemies are profitable.

Yup, I believed The Dead Kennedys back in 1981 when they said as much in songs like "When Ya Get Drafted."

And of course, this was verified time and again over the years..
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Offline Paul St. John

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Re: What is the economy anyway ??
« Reply #91 on: November 16, 2011, 02:17:33 PM »
Quote from: "starry-eyed pirate"
Quote from: "Paul St. John"
starry-eyed pirate wrote:
[
Paul St. John wrote:
quote="starry-eyed pirate"]Well...le's see...I don't know anyone who leads a just and moral life. If you drive a car, and import your food and other goods, like tools and clothes and furniture from halfway around the world you're not living justly.


That's some statement alright. Care to explain why? I would say that If halfway around the world goods are being produced by people willing to part with them at a better price, giving your business to them is the JUST thing to do. The person who would go this direction of trading with those across the world has a just mind, and yet at the same time, justice in the truest sense cannot be even applied to this situation, because who you choose to trade you with, and what things you choose to purchase, and do with your earned money is your business! That is justice.


So let me get this straight, cause I can't believe you really mean what you wrote here.



What you are telling me is that Justice has no place in peoples private business

What I wrote, is that justice does not pertain to whom you buy your goods from, as it is your choice. One of the primary functions of justice is to uphold and protect people's right to use and dispense of their own goods and earned wealth as they see fit. For example. I would disagree with a person who refuses to do business with others based on their ethnic background, but at the same time, no one has the right to force him/her to.


Justice is not relative.  It is an absolute and is not merely limited to the exchange of goods and services between 2 parties as they "see fit" but is also concerned with the effect of said business deal on the world as a whole.

Yes.. I know.. Justice is justice.  It is very hard, however, to measure the effect of any exchange on the entire world.

Here is an example.  There is no doubt that there are chemicals put in our food, and as well, things left out of the food, that make them less healthy.  Such things probably cause an extremely slight increase in the chances of those who consume them getting cancer, and other diseases.  All other things being the same, consuming these ingredients, may slightly reduce a person's life span.  However, the use of these chemicals, greatly increase convenience, and reduce the price.  Many people, if they knew, all the possible risks, and had all the facts laid out, right in front of them, would still choose processed foods.  That means more choice- more options for more people.  I would say that that makes the world better as a whole, because it increases choice. You would probably say that it hurts the world.

Organic food is available for those who want it, but for those who would like to trade a drop of health or a take a risk of increasing the possibility of getting a disease, for convenience, expedience, and value, they have that choice.  I love choice.  I think that choice is great, and that the more choice, the better the world for all.  Possibly, a person will put the money and time that they save through the purchasing of all non-organics foods, into other healthful activities, that are more to their liking, or which they believe to be of greater benefit.

Paul St. John
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Offline Paul St. John

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Re: What is the economy anyway ??
« Reply #92 on: November 16, 2011, 02:21:10 PM »
Quote from: "starry-eyed pirate"
Quote from: "Paul St. John"
Quote from: "starry-eyed pirate"
regardless of the acidification of our oceans,
and the burning and clearing of the worlds rain forests, the degradation of air quality, or the toxification of the water table, the eradication of indigenous, sustainable cultures, and unique animal/plant species, etc. Is that what you mean to convey ?? I hope not.


Most of these things are WAY overstated by pseudo-scientists, and others who just do not know what they are talking ab out. As to the extent, to which there is some truth, progress always has issues along the way, and the only people who don t notice that are the people who do not do anything. We are always finding better ways to do things. It is very hard to be perfect all the time.. Of course, if you do absolutely nothing at all, yuo will make no mistakes, and it is very easy to critique those who do. the one specific thing I would actually like to address is about the sustainable, indigenous cultures. No one has killed them or anything, and it could be taken that way, the way you put it.

But all in all, I am not going to lie, I care more about people then about rain forests, oceans, or plant species.



Paul[/b]

Man you are really missin it.[/quote]


What is the "it' that I am missing?  Can you define it?

Paul
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Offline Froderik

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Re: What is the economy anyway ??
« Reply #93 on: November 16, 2011, 02:34:17 PM »
Money is the root of all evil.

Usury, fiat currency, derivatives, it's all bullshit and has to go.
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Offline Samara

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Re: What is the economy anyway ??
« Reply #94 on: November 16, 2011, 03:16:34 PM »
It's not the root of all evil. If not money, something else.  But currency is here to stay so no point in belaboring the issue or dreaming of a Walden Utopia unless you are ready, able, and willing to live it.
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Offline Froderik

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Re: What is the economy anyway ??
« Reply #95 on: November 16, 2011, 03:26:55 PM »
Quote from: "Samara"
It's not the root of all evil. If not money, something else.  But currency is here to stay so no point in belaboring the issue or dreaming of a Walden Utopia unless you are ready, able, and willing to live it.

Well maybe not all, but most...

And it will most certainly NOT be here to stay if it becomes worthless enough to the people.

Eventually, people will create their own currency, or turn to other means of trade that does not involve "THEM."

There is no Walden utopia, or utopia of any kind possible given the circumstances we face as a global society today. Most people don't know survival from a hole in the ground. Most people would die off. Much death and chaos would ensue; so you are absolutely right, there...

The system is collapsing though. No denying that!

This guy has some amazing insight about the world economy:

http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo ... __part_1_/
http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo ... __part_2_/

Eventually all things crumble; in the end, all is known.

Nothing new under the sun.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2011, 03:53:40 PM by Froderik »

Offline Froderik

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Re: What is the economy anyway ??
« Reply #96 on: November 16, 2011, 03:47:44 PM »
Quote from: "Paul St. John"
What is the "it' that I am missing?  Can you define it?

Paul

In One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, Chief Bromden referred to it as The Combine.

It is the machine relentlessly pushing its institutions over on its people for hundreds of years now..
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Offline heretik

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Re: What is the economy anyway ??
« Reply #97 on: November 16, 2011, 09:24:04 PM »
Quote from: "Samara"
It's not the root of all evil. If not money, something else.  But currency is here to stay so no point in belaboring the issue or dreaming of a Walden Utopia unless you are ready, able, and willing to live it.


Guns, pot, alcohol, sex or drinking to much carrot juice is not the problem or "root of all evil". Humans may be the root of all evil or at least we have the ability.
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Offline Samara

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Re: What is the economy anyway ??
« Reply #98 on: November 16, 2011, 10:38:39 PM »
Well, yeah.  Anything can be misused and abused.... vices, ideology, and maybe even carrot juice. They can also be enjoyed.... maybe even carrot juice.  

As long as there are humans....
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Offline Paul St. John

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Re: What is the economy anyway ??
« Reply #99 on: November 17, 2011, 01:49:16 PM »
Quote from: "Froderik"
Quote from: "Samara"
It's not the root of all evil. If not money, something else.  But currency is here to stay so no point in belaboring the issue or dreaming of a Walden Utopia unless you are ready, able, and willing to live it.

Well maybe not all, but most...

I will state here with certainty, taht money is the root of no evil at all, now or ever, and anyone who says otherwise, does not believe that people are responsible for their own actions.  Such a person would have to believe that a piece of paper has magical powers of negativity over human beings.  

And it will most certainly NOT be here to stay if it becomes worthless enough to the people.

Was that statement really worth writing?  No > I suppose thta it would NOT be here to stay IF it becomes worthless enough to people.

Eventually, people will create their own currency, or turn to other means of trade that does not involve "THEM."

How do you know?

There is no Walden utopia, or utopia of any kind possible given the circumstances we face as a global society today. Most people don't know survival from a hole in the ground. Most people would die off. Much death and chaos would ensue; so you are absolutely right, there...

The system is collapsing though. No denying that!

This guy has some amazing insight about the world economy:

http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo ... __part_1_/
http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo ... __part_2_/

I went to the website and found that this video was in a playlist along with videos of real-life mermaids, bigfoot, aliens, and others things of the sort.

Eventually all things crumble; in the end, all is known.

Nah.. All is never known.  There's always more out there for those with the spirit to go after it.

Nothing new under the sun.


Nothing new under the sun- That sounds really fucking boring

Paul
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Offline Froderik

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Re: What is the economy anyway ??
« Reply #100 on: November 17, 2011, 04:16:25 PM »
The video mainly consists of an interview with Michael Ruppert, who published and edited From The Wilderness, a newsletter and website covering a range of topics including (international) politics, the C.I.A., peak oil, civil liberties, drugs, economics, corruption and 9/11 alternative theories. He is also the author of Crossing The Rubicon: The Decline of the American Empire at the End of the Age of Oil...Currently, he is CEO and president of Collapse Network, Inc, and hosts The Lifeboat Hour on Progressive Radio Network. Not "just some crackpot" talking about aliens, for fuck's sake...lol

In the end all is known; that is, when time and space cease to be. But I agree with you as far as there are often solutions if one takes the time to look for them...on that note, and in reply to your question, it seems only logical that if money becomes worthless enough people will find more viable options of trade, even if it means committing "treason." Where would we be if we had never unburdened ourselves of The Crown?

You take my statement about money too literally, Paul. I even made the comparison of people and guns in anticipation of this; maybe you didn't catch that. But I stand by that statement in so far as it facilitates evil, especially when you are talking about interest (usury), derivatives, and fiat currency. The dollar is taking a dive, and Wall St. has everything to do with it! I'm sure you were aware that pretty much the entire Cabinet is comprised of Wall St. bankers (e.g. Tim Geithner).

While "nothing new under the sun" sounds boring, the point of that statement is that history is repeating itself and we are too ignorant to see it.
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Offline Loli

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Re: What is the economy anyway ??
« Reply #101 on: November 17, 2011, 04:24:34 PM »
Ignorant or apathetic? Or optimistic? Or comfortable with uncertainty... or just livin' in the moment?
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Offline Paul St. John

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Re: What is the economy anyway ??
« Reply #102 on: November 20, 2011, 02:20:58 PM »
Quote from: "Froderik"
While "nothing new under the sun" sounds boring, the point of that statement is that history is repeating itself and we are too ignorant to see it.


I agree with this statement fully.
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Offline Paul St. John

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Re: What is the economy anyway ??
« Reply #103 on: November 20, 2011, 02:22:07 PM »
Quote from: "Loli"
Ignorant or apathetic? Or optimistic? Or comfortable with uncertainty... or just livin' in the moment?

All of them, I think.. It is surely frustrating.
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Offline starry-eyed pirate

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Re: What is the economy anyway ??
« Reply #104 on: November 23, 2011, 08:40:47 AM »
Quote from: "Paul St. John"
Quote from: "starry-eyed pirate"
Quote from: "Paul St. John"
Quote from: "starry-eyed pirate"
regardless of the acidification of our oceans,
and the burning and clearing of the worlds rain forests, the degradation of air quality, or the toxification of the water table, the eradication of indigenous, sustainable cultures, and unique animal/plant species, etc. Is that what you mean to convey ?? I hope not.


Most of these things are WAY overstated by pseudo-scientists, and others who just do not know what they are talking ab out. As to the extent, to which there is some truth, progress always has issues along the way, and the only people who don t notice that are the people who do not do anything. We are always finding better ways to do things. It is very hard to be perfect all the time.. Of course, if you do absolutely nothing at all, yuo will make no mistakes, and it is very easy to critique those who do. the one specific thing I would actually like to address is about the sustainable, indigenous cultures. No one has killed them or anything, and it could be taken that way, the way you put it.

But all in all, I am not going to lie, I care more about people then about rain forests, oceans, or plant species.



Paul[/b]

Man you are really missin it.


What is the "it' that I am missing?  Can you define it?

Paul[/quote]

I've done my best.  I think if you consider what I'm saying as you look around, you might see it. Put away all your social conditioning.  forget your education and just look around.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.