Author Topic: What is a parent to do?  (Read 7463 times)

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Offline Dysfunction Junction

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Re: What is a parent to do?
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2011, 03:34:58 PM »
Quote from: "Inculcated"
Ive ignored the portions of this thread which are who-troll centric in an attempt to interact with you on the level. Your reply to my simple question reads as untruthful. Just an hour ago there were two programs and now suddenly youve whittled it down to having ruled out blah,blah, blah... The rest of your reply devolves from simply disingenuous to vulgar and inordinately hostile-- especially for someone pleading ignorance whilst feigning an open mind.

You have an odd hobby tandem troll. Im bored of you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wK6fyNA ... re=related

Whooter is actually quite easy to spot.  He's a non-native English speaker and his idiosyncrasies are simple and obvious.  He makes the same grammar and spelling mistakes all the time.  Non-native speakers have problems with the written word, often confusing homonyms, because they lack detailed understanding of the English language and therefore can't discern between uses of words and their spelling.  

Native speakers understand "advice" is a noun and "advise" is a verb, but both "Torn" and "Whooter" bungle this word regularly.  "Torn" got it wrong twice in its last two posts, after claiming to be a "successful college graduate."  Both "Torn" and "Whooter" must coincidentally be Romanians with "troubled teen" daughters I suppose?

Quote from: "TheWho"
I've heard the advise before...
Quote from: "TheWho"
I have received advise to let the legal system teach my kid a lesson...

and..

Quote from: "Torn"
We're going to take the advise of BuzzKill and others...
Quote from: "Torn"
I came here seeking information and advise...

He usually uses spell check (he has stated this before) but spell check doesn't catch obvious grammatical errors like the above.  There are other little quirks that make Whoot-bag easy to spot, but I'll hold onto them for future use.

This thread is nothing more than Whooter trolling and jerking everyone's chains.  Another fake parent with a fake, troubled "sexual active" (sic) daughter (*wink*).  That much is obvious and apparent.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 03:51:18 PM by Dysfunction Junction »
"Compassion is the basis of morality."

-Arthur Schopenhauer

Offline BuzzKill

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Re: What is a parent to do?
« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2011, 03:49:32 PM »
Torn, Your entirely within your rights to remain anonymous - this is a large part of Fornits charm. But here is the thing - there are some aroun' these parts that always assume any parent posting is a troll. It is wrong headed and counter-productive to automatically pile on them, calling for their banishment.  Being a parent myself I have long tried to explain the answer to stopping the abuse lies largely with helping the parents understand the realities, which can't be done if you chase them off or ban them.  All that said, the forum does have a troll problem. Using sock puppets to talk to each other validating each other is rude and dishonest  - altho with a nod and wink to certain character actors on the forums - they can be amusing if occasionally profane.  Your correct that IP addresses can be compared. I thought perhaps they had been  - but if not - I'm still willing to believe your a real parent with a real daughter perilously close to a terrible mistake.  If I have helped your family avoid this I am glad. Please read the book I mentioned. (Help at any Cost) It explains a great deal of the history and risks - the hows and whys of the problem - Plus lots of excellent advice about how to find legitimate help for ligament problems.  

There is a reason why these programs seem clustered in certain states - Utah being among them. This is b/c regulating, licensing and legislating for health and safety is left up to the states. Some do a good job, some not so good and others not at all. Guess which ones these programs set shop up in?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Dysfunction Junction

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Re: What is a parent to do?
« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2011, 03:56:19 PM »
Buzz, IP addresses don't mean anything.  Whooter is proxied up and posting because all of the IP addresses he has used in the past are banned.  If IP addresses were effective at identifying a poster, then Whooter would not be here, but we all see he is.  I know this thread is a troll-fest.  It's obvious as hell.  We all know one of Whooter's many aliases is "Mitt Romney" (Whooter even admitted it), so how do you explain Mitt's presence if IP addresses can be used to track posters?  Whooter threw that out as red-herring knowing full well he's proxied up.  It's very basic for people who understand such things.  You're getting your leg pulled, dear.  That notwithstanding, your advice is proper, IMO.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Compassion is the basis of morality."

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Offline Torn

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Re: What is a parent to do?
« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2011, 04:13:11 PM »
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Native speakers understand "advice" is a noun and "advise" is a verb, but both "Torn" and "Whooter" bungle this word regularly.  "Torn" got it wrong twice in its last two posts, after claiming to be a "successful college graduate."
Never mind that advice/advise is among the most common errors in the English language, this is clear and irrefutable proof that I must be Romanian. :rofl:

I was an engineering major, so you might forgive my grammatical mistakes.

This all reminds me of a Monty Python sketch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uMJYQ9LKGQ#t=2m08s

If I said I really was Whooter, would you then believe I am not? :)
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Offline Dysfunction Junction

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Re: What is a parent to do?
« Reply #34 on: April 20, 2011, 04:29:24 PM »
Epic failure of an epic troll. 0/10. :sue:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Compassion is the basis of morality."

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Offline Torn

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Re: What is a parent to do?
« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2011, 04:36:34 PM »
Quote from: "BuzzKill"
This is b/c regulating, licensing and legislating for health and safety is left up to the states. Some do a good job, some not so good and others not at all. Guess which ones these programs set shop up in?
I figured that out about Utah, and I'm guessing Arizona is also on the bad list.  Which states do a good job?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline BuzzKill

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Re: What is a parent to do?
« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2011, 04:55:52 PM »
Quote from: "Torn"
Quote from: "BuzzKill"
This is b/c regulating, licensing and legislating for health and safety is left up to the states. Some do a good job, some not so good and others not at all. Guess which ones these programs set shop up in?
I figured that out about Utah, and I'm guessing Arizona is also on the bad list.  Which states do a good job?

CA might be a good example. That said, you'll find this industry is absent in the states that regulate facilities. There was at least one such program in CA - Bell Academy - but it didn't last long; plus it was, as I recall, for those very close to "graduating"; so far less overtly abusive than the typical example; and the serious abuse takes place on the first three levels. Even so, they had the students working on the renovations needed in the dilapidated buildings - and the rumor persisted that this involved the removing asbestos insulation. I wish I could say this is an outrageous accusation - but it is all to believable.

I just thought of something else you may want to take the time to watch: Whose Watching the Kids. It is a PBS documentary about the lack of regulations is Montana and something of an expose' on one prominent program in that state.

http://http://watch.montanapbs.org/video/1430387622/
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Torn

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Re: What is a parent to do?
« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2011, 04:59:47 PM »
Does anyone have experience with the state of Oregon?  I understand one school was closed there recently, I don't know if that's good (bad school being shut down) or bad (bad school was allowed to exist for a time).
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Offline Oscar

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Re: What is a parent to do?
« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2011, 05:03:20 PM »
In our culture we believe in teaching while being present. Advice from outside is welcome as parenting is learning-by-mistakes. Teenagers of today don't face the same challenges as we did when we were teenagers. I find as a parent that the hardest problem to solve is to break through the massive amount of background noise we have chosen to surround ourselves with. We need to be totally off-line and it is during these breaks the family unit can reconnect.

So how do you get such a chance to bring yourself and your daughter into place where there is total isolation? Remember not even you may have a phone people who know you can use.

One way is to do it with a therapist on the side. Another is just to go far away from the drug suppliers and let a foreign field do the job.

Short term programs do work if there is a plan for the long-term move. And here is the root of the problems concerning most of the residential solutions. They just don't care about aftercare. You cannot remove a person from the society without creating a need for this person to be re-integrated into the society.

When some of researchers look on parent-message boards like conductdisorders, we find story after story about young adults who have used their teenage years in a restricted setting only to be dumped at home or on the streets once the turn 18.

If I were in your shoes I would seek a short term program or simply a wilderness vacation with a guide (in Norway or Sweden, because I am from Denmark). I would aim at getting my child away from our community for at least 3 weeks.

But I would never start out with a wilderness program!. I would see to that redrawals from possible addictions are dealt with in a safe environment and the wilderness is not such a place if we take into account how many teenagers who have died out there.

If detox is an issue it would take 7-10 days. It doesn't take a genius to do a cold turkey, but have medics on speed dial just in case. It would take 3 adults to be on watch 24/7 - properly some muscles in the family. Do you have access to cabin somewhere?

Step 2 would be a wilderness experience. Most we have charted on the Wiki are involved in a financial kick-back system where they get money for referring kids to boarding schools. Don't listen to them. The goal must be a third phase where your daughter can attend a kind of normal school with periodic out-patient therapy when needed.

Step 3 is aftercare. It needs to be planned because in reality it is here the entire project is won or lost. You may have to ask yourself: Is the high school providing a healthy environment for your daughter? Can she focus her energy on something beside school? Personally I wouldn't hesitate to let my children live by relatives out of town, but of course the best solution would be if I could get them to accept therapy and counseling while living at home. Remember you have to find a therapist now and not wait until you return home.

Here are two wilderness programs which we at the present time don't believe are taking referral fees. If we are wrong and they start talking boarding school or anything else finish the program and then leave. They cannot force or manipulate anything with you as an adult present:

http://www.soltreks.com/program-family.htm
http://yahwehwildernessexpeditions.com/courses.htm

To our knowledge they have not have any deaths yet and in order to keep it like that it has to be a family expedition. I know one of them is maybe too faith-based but at least then you will have something to laugh at on your trip back home. They are shorter than the normal 30-60 days wilderness programs and for a good reason. They are step 2 instead of step 1. The resistance against working for a change is broken in the safe combination of family and isolation at the cabin.

I will pray for any improvement of your situation.

Please write back if you have additional questions.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Oscar

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Re: What is a parent to do?
« Reply #39 on: April 20, 2011, 05:23:58 PM »
Quote from: "Torn"
Does anyone have experience with the state of Oregon?  I understand one school was closed there recently, I don't know if that's good (bad school being shut down) or bad (bad school was allowed to exist for a time).

We have a directory of schools and programs in Oregon here. Several were shut down over the times.

Mount Bachelor Academy got most time in the media, because it was the jewel in the crone of Aspen Education Group. Once it fell a slide started. They have just announced that 5 program will close and 2 others will merge into existing programs. Their wilderness program Sagewalk had the lasted death of a teenager in residential settings in Oregon, but not the latest death nationwide. In 2010 7 teenagers lost their lives in residential settings.

On this board we had a case of a teenage girl who just didn't get good grades. This case was not handled perfectly and that is the reason why you should not use your real name here. The girl managed to avoid a Christian boarding school with help from the social services and according to reports from the human rights group Domestic prisoners of conscience she has reconciled with her step-mother so she could continue her studies. In that case the parents had located a boarding school in Oregon which you can find in the directory which have a lovely campus with horses they show the parents but also another isolated campus where they girls are sent out in the woods to log until they get the program. That campus is not shown to the parents. The curriculum is fine if you want a daughter focusing on one single career choice: Being housewife.

On the database we have charted programs in almost any state.
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Offline Reddit TroubledTeens

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Re: What is a parent to do?
« Reply #40 on: April 20, 2011, 06:29:14 PM »
Here is a listing of abusive and suspect facilities by state. Please be aware that just because a facility is not on this list, it doesn't mean that it's safe.

http://wiki.fornits.com/index.php?title ... ted_States
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Offline Torn

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Re: What is a parent to do?
« Reply #41 on: April 20, 2011, 06:30:35 PM »
Thanks for the replies Oscar.

Aftercare is indeed one of my biggest concerns with any program.  It does no good for us to send her away only to have her return to the same environment, same friends that contributed to the current problems.  This is of particular concern with the short term programs (although certainly not my only concern there) - if she's gone for six weeks her boyfriend will be waiting for her.  If she's gone for a year will he still be waiting?  Possibly but certainly less likely.  If we can find a way to deal with the issues while she's at home, it avoids the whole question of re-integrating her when a program is complete.
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Offline Ursus

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Re: What is a parent to do?
« Reply #42 on: April 20, 2011, 07:00:02 PM »
Quote from: "Torn"
The boarding school has a facebook page and some of the graduates have posted positive comments about their experiences. Of course I have no way to verify that these are actual students, but they sure look real. I have not ruled out this option yet, but we have put it on hold. We're going to take the advise of BuzzKill and others, give therapy a try (even if our daughter will not participate) and try to learn some new strategies and coping skills.
Oh, they're probably real. Depends on the place though. Are there any negative comments on that Facebook page? If so, how do other posters react to them? Are they tolerated? Or slammed? If there are NO naysayers, perhaps due to excess censorship, are there negative comments about that same place on other Facebook groups or elsewhere on the net?

The question is, are those positive comments really evidence of lasting benefits and positive changes, or the lingering effects of residual koolaid or even Stockholm Syndrome?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Torn

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Re: What is a parent to do?
« Reply #43 on: April 20, 2011, 08:40:02 PM »
Quote from: "Ursus"
Oh, they're probably real. Depends on the place though. Are there any negative comments on that Facebook page? If so, how do other posters react to them? Are they tolerated? Or slammed? If there are NO naysayers, perhaps due to excess censorship, are there negative comments about that same place on other Facebook groups or elsewhere on the net?

The question is, are those positive comments really evidence of lasting benefits and positive changes, or the lingering effects of residual koolaid or even Stockholm Syndrome?
Good questions.  There were no negative comments which could mean censorship and could mean good results - or a combination of both - there's just no way to tell from that page.

Clicking through to the girls who posted, at least one of them actually lists this place as her school.  One girl wrote that she hated it for the first year and then grew to appreciate it.  One girl posted that her life had turned out well and she thanked the school.  One thing which is clear from the posts is that the girls bonded with each other and with some of the school staff.  Lots of warm and fuzzies, lots of pictures of students having fun climbing, ice skating, playing at a lake etc.

I have found little or nothing about the school anywhere else except Fornits and even here there is no first hand experience, only the assumption that its evil because its a "program".
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Offline Fr0sty

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So... do I just wait and hope he doesn't die?
« Reply #44 on: April 21, 2011, 12:11:42 AM »
My son is 16 and not likely to live much longer due to cocaine/extacy/vicodin addiction. He is down to around 100 pounds (5'9"), can't (and I mean can't) get up for school, and has completely changed in personality. He started "experimenting" with pot at 13 then progressed to getting expelled for selling drugs at school (second offense). We have done hospital inpatient, outpatient, inpatient drug treatment (voluntary and involuntary), group therapy, wilderness therapy, psychiatrists, psychologists, counselors, family counseling, family contracts, police intervention, and out of control youth. We have moved 800 miles away from where we used to live simply to give him a new start. Now he is seriously near death.

Basically at this point I just want him somewhere safe. Unfortunately that is not home as I have to sleep sometimes and he climbs out his window. He doesn't need money from me as he sells drugs. The police here are absolutely no help (I know from experience as I have called them a dozen times) and I wish we hadn't bothered to move as the police in WA state were much more helpful. CA drug enforcement is incredibly lax and the "incorrigibility petition" seems to not exist in our county. He has been cited twice for non drug related crimes but there have been no consequences, not even probation. If he were on probation we might have a chance but there seems to be no hope of that. If there is a place we can send him that is safe and won't warp him forever please, please let me know.
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