Support Judge James Gray

[glider]

I am not a Californian nor am I a Libertarian but nevertheless, Judge Gray deserves my support.
http://www.judgejimgray4senate.com/
To see him speak and see what kinda of guy he is check out:
http://www.cfdp.ca/rice.htm
Judge James Gray has never smoked pot or used illegal drugs, is a great speaker, is accomplished and is against the war on drugs. We need guys like this!
~John

[Antigen]

I like Judge Gray. However, one of his alternative solutions to prison is forced treatment.

Nothing is denied to well-directed labor, and nothing is ever to be
attained without it.
--Joshua Reynolds (1723-1792)

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
American drug war P.O.W.
   10/80 - 10/82
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
Anonymity Anonymous

[Anonymous]

I have to say this........If I would not have been forced into Straight, I would have died! I was Damn near dead when I went in and wanted nothing more then to be dead. I don't agree with everything that took place there but, it in someway or another saved my ass from killing myself or killing someone else. I am a holic and addict still recovering. At that time, I was put in other therapy situations as well as another rehab that I left within one hour of at 14 years of age. I am sure this comment will piss people off.....but, this is for me and me only. I am not a huge Straight supporter or church or any  other cult like oranization.

I only speak about myself and my own history and experiences. I am not saying others that post on here are wrong or full of shit or that they are right. I just hope that people are honest about what they post and are being truthful about their own experiences good or bad.

[Anonymous]

That's great that you were able to take something good away from that.  I and most of the people I've spoken with have not.  The only thing it did as far as "getting me sober" was to remove the alcohol/drug.  What it did AFTER that was FAR worse and did FAR more damage than anything I could have dreamed of doing to myself.  

I hope you don't get blasted, you seem well-intentioned however, I hope you see the bigger picture through some intelligent dialog  :wink:   It's not "if it helps one person...."  it's more like "if it HARMS even one" and in this case it harmed THOUSANDS.  My daughter made an interesting observation the other day.  In our family/friends circle she has a mother, father, aunt, uncle, step uncle, and two other close family friends that all GRADUATED Straight.  She and I were talking and she said, "Oh my God, each one of you is seriously fucked up in one form or another. I mean SERIOUSLY"  She's right and in one case, the step uncle, he's dead.  

Which branch and what years were you in?

[Anonymous]

I was in the Springfield Straight in 1988. Don't get me wrong, I sometimes recognize things about me that I hate and I believe some of those things are a direct result of Straight. But in comparison to where I was before there and to where I am today and ever since I graduated the place.......what am I supposed to say, there is no comparrison. Straight removed me from the drug/drink use for 2 years.....maybe that was all I needed.....I don't know. There was way to much intentional mind games inflicted in there, no question about it!

 I was insane before I went into Straight and became a different type of insane when I was there but, somewhere along the way I realized my life didn't have to be the way it had been. I am not sayingmy life now is a happy one all the time.....it's not. I am happy sometimes but, I don't wanna die anymore and I don't want to hurt anyone. I have been sober since Straight although I almost relapsed a couple of times.

I feel that God saved me when I wanted and tried to die, he saved me the whole way through Straight (the hardest thing that I ever went through) and he continues to save me today. To me there must be a reason that I specifically had to go through all this. I am not a real religous person or a bible banger but, there is a pupose of some sort for all of it.

For the postings that I have read in here, where I hear severe horror stories about Straight or to the people who are seriously emotionally or mentally damaged from Straight, I only hope they seek help of their own choice and are able to live and not allow something to still control them from the past.

I still can waste to much time in my life being miserable about someone or something and Frankly, life is to damn short!!! I am not taking away from the people that were mistreated in there as I was mistreated at times to and I may have mistreated people unintentionally in there as an upper phaser. Again, I now don't agree with many things that took place in there but for me, it still was the big changing point in my life. I don't mean to disrespect anyone elses own voice or oppinions in here.

[Anonymous]

I'm glad to hear that you feel your life is better today, but I would seriously question whether or not it is attributable to Straight.  

I agree there was a purpose in you going through Straight...hopefully it is to prevent the same from happening to other kids.  

I'm glad that you feel no lingering ill-effects from Straight, but be careful of how much you talk about wasting time being angry.  The people that went through the "severe horror stories" and "are seriously emotionally or mentally damaged" have earned every right to be as angry as they need to be.  I'm one of them.  I earned every ounce of that anger.  I hope all of us find some peace, but right now the only way TO that peace is THROUGH the anger.

[Antigen]

Couple of thoughts. Anon1, please don't take this the wrong way, but not everyone who uses drugs for fun or self medication needs treatment. In fact, no matter what drug we're talking about, with the exception of tobacco, only around 1 - 3 or 4 in 100 users ever get so hooked that they can't put it down pretty easily if it becomes a problem.

I have two major problems with judicial forced treatment.

1. The "diagnostic method" use by law enforcement, schools, government and private sector employers and by the courts is exactly the same as that used to commit so many of us to the Program; evidence of posession. I'm no research analyst, but it seems to me that the people most harmed by the treatment method have been those who either had serious problems unrelated to drug use and those who had no serious problems in their lives to begin with. (aside from maybe very gullible, overworried parents or legal problems) So, for every 1 - 4 ppl who might benefit from forced treatment, we're fucking with at least 96.
   
   
2. There is absolutely no proof anywhere that I know of (and I've been keeping an eye out for a number of years) to support the notion that any form of treatment is any more effective for drug abuse issues than no treatment at all. Again, one exception; maintainance therapy for heroin addicts works wonders for the addict and their community. That's right, everything the Program taught us about drugs being the root of all evil is bullshit. Give a heroin addict their fix at the right dose, without interruption or fear of interruption and, otherwise, leave them be and most of them get their shit together.
   

Now, Judge Gray is the consumate politician. I read his book soon after it was published and have read a good deal of his speeches and published articles since. I think he's dead on as regards the nature of the problem. And it may well be that he's either changed his views regarding forced treatment for posession or is operating on the 'lesser of two evils' doctrine as a lot of drug policy reformers currently are.

I like the guy. It actually brought tears to my eyes to read this seasoned judge describe the judicially mandated tragedies that I've been watching in my own community for years. He gets it that what we're doing is not helping anyone and is harming a lot of people. I support him 90%. I just won't budge on the forced treatment issue. It's too important. Forced treatment = Stalinist reeducation.

Now, all that said, I'm glad you came out of your funk. But do you think you might have had somewhat less of a problem tollerating therapy if it hadn't come wrapped in a pile of indictments?

"the war on drugs is but one manifestation, albeit a very dramatic one, of the great moral contests of our age -- the struggle between two diametrically opposed images of man: between man as responsible moral agent, 'condemned' to freedom, benefiting and suffering from the consequences of his actions; and man as irresponsible child, unfit for freedom, 'protected' from its risks by agents of the omnicompetent state."
--Thomas Szasz

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
American drug war P.O.W.
   10/80 - 10/82
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
Anonymity Anonymous

[ClayL]

On 2003-12-03 06:38:00, Antigen wrote:

1. 
   
2. ....Again, one exception; maintainance therapy for heroin addicts works wonders for the addict and their community. That's right, everything the Program taught us about drugs being the root of all evil is bullshit. Give a heroin addict their fix at the right dose, without interruption or fear of interruption and, otherwise, leave them be and most of them get their shit together.
   
   

Beat me to it. The study ion question also found that most, upwards of 90%, of the heroin junkies stop using illegal drugs altogether after about 10 years. Further, they also showed not that many health problems on average with non-junkies. This leads me to believe that most dope fiends, if left alone, will eventually correct their own problems and become a productive member of society.

-Clay

[Anonymous]

Again, I was only speaking about myself(about anger).  While I was at work today I started to ask myself....if I was in my parents shoes and I had a child who was as fucked up as I was on drugs, drinking, satanism, sex, fights, suicidal. What would I do to try and save them? I have the advantage of my own personal recovery and experience that would help to some degree but, if I didn't have that....what would I do? Where or who should I talk to to get help? This has nothing to do about Straight. I know for a fact that my child will die or end up killing somebody or be in prison....it's that bad.

As a parent trying to help their kid.....what direction would one take? I personally would not send them to a 30 day rehab? I do have an idea what I would personally do but, I am just asking for what some of you would do or a parent that has no past history with therapy or abuse in anyway. Where I think a huge problem lies for this is that profit seems to be involved in any type of help programs regardless of type of treatment.

Once profit is in the equation....it tends to look at the clients as products of profit rather then what the primary purpose should be. This is very sad to me but, reality. What are your thoughts on this?

[Antigen]

On 2003-12-03 15:32:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I know for a fact that my child will die or end up killing somebody or be in prison....it's that bad.

...

I do have an idea what I would personally do but, I am just asking for what some of you would do or a parent that has no past history with therapy or abuse in anyway.

I'm right there with ya'. Actually, quite a bit ahead, I'm guessing. My oldest is 19 and she just returned to our family home after about 3 years w/ a boyfriend to whome we affectionately refered as "Psycho Boy". We don't mention him at all, any more. Thank God, we don't have to!

Maybe I'm biased. I've heard that we forget just what total bratts we were as we get older. But I don't think I or any of my 4 brothers and sister who went throught The Seed and Straight were half as wreckless as our daughter was for a short while.

We basically took the TOUGHLOVE hategroup philosophy, turned it around and played it backward. I shit you not, I sometimes hear my mother's grating voice in my head (not like an aditory haleucination or anything, just regular memory) bitching at me for being an enabler or a cop out or a poor example. I nearly always answer back "Thanks mom!" and do the opposite, unless we're talking about corn fritter recipes or those nuggets of wisdom passed on from Poor Richard.

I don't know what we would have done without our experience. We drew on my teenhood as a guide for what not to do and on my husbands for a better example.

We were seldome consistant, always anguishing over our decisions, often at odds with eachother. But we never completely fell for the idea that we're absolutely sure she'd die if we don't do something. At ever step, we tried to weigh our options as best we could and always leave the door open. In the end, we apparently offered the best alternative.

Your milage may vary. I'm not about to tell you what might have happened if you hadn't landed up in Straight cause it's moot. Neither one of us can possibly know. But most of the kids I saw show up on front row were certainly not on the brink of death.

Where I think a huge problem lies for this is that profit seems to be involved in any type of help programs regardless of type of treatment.



Once profit is in the equation....it tends to look at the clients as products of profit rather then what the primary purpose should be. This is very sad to me but, reality. What are your thoughts on this?"

No, I don't think it's the profit. I think it's the coercion. If we didn't have a vast array of laws and regulations to provide artificial incentives, most people simply would not seek treatment for recreational drug use or the typical asshole years of adolescence. Without all that NIDA, LEAA, PDFA and other public (ergo stolen) funding, these programs would never have found a market.

I think Straight, Inc. is the epitome of Socialist Fascism. Hence the favorite tag line of mine "A vote for Büsh is a vote for America's Führor!"

--quote