A society within a society...

[Antigen]

"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. ... All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
--Hermann Goering, Luftwaffe commander, sentenced to death at Nuremberg

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
-- John F. Kennedy (1917-63), U.S. Democratic politician, president. Speech, 13 March 1962, the White House.

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Hey, now there's a topic! Great picture.

[Nazi]

On 2003-11-03 10:22:00, Anonymous wrote:

""

Well Well Well, if it isnt Jef Gottlieb and gay Marty and ken, notice how gay Marty has his arm around his favorite lover?Marty loves Ken.
Fuckin gay mother fuckers!!!!!I wonder if Marty has some of his rubber dicks in his back pocket?

[ This Message was edited by: nazi on 2003-11-09 15:54 ]

[Marty KruDick]

:flame:  :flame:  :flame:  :flame:  :flame:  :flame:  :flame:  :flame:  :flame:


I am insulted by this pic.  That fucking Charlie had nothing on us. HE GOT CAUGHT!!!!

 :roll:  :roll:  :roll:

[Marty KruDick]

Ol' Manson had a few killed, brainwashed a few, scared a nation, and hurt some families.


I have single-handedly destroyed the lives, and minds of more then you will ever count.


What's my name?

 :skull: Marty Krudick  :skull:

[Anonymous]

Good God ...Freaky as all get out . These sick bastards are grinning because they have made so much money (in my opinion) off of parents that they manipulated by lying to them about their kids .

Jeffery (gee I coulda been a great shoe salesman) Gottlieb ,instead I made a boat load of money abusing human beings ....and this fat old boy is actually grinning about it .

Kruglik is grinning because he once gave a baseball bat to two men with the instructions "if he even gives you the hint that he is going to run away .You are to beat him to death on the spot" ... Thats therapy  right? no that is torture .pure and simple and words that still ring in my ears .

Kruglik  did carry out a cowboy kickass on a kid ,16 years old and a one third his size by appealling to the mob mentality of the house .  Yeah old boy kruglik I still cannot forget the bruises that I saw on Chris Badger's back after he got brutally slammed into every wall in each room of the house ,he was older than me and so much smaller ....and you have the audacity to grin (like a fukin crocadile) that you are .

And these abusive sadists have their arms around (in my opinion )the biggest baldfaced liar and ricci want a be ,known to man . zaretzky ,if you all knew the reason he told me why he was pulled back into the program (which in my mind was showed just how diabolical elan and ricci and his hench men are )for a lot longer than 2 freaking weeks ya baldfaced liar .

It would burn off both your ears and freeze you to the marrow in your bones . What ever you do you certaintly don't want to make a mistake like I did and get on a boat with this prevert . And baldfaced kenny if you need to have your memory refreshed (i don't cause the preverted lunacy is still fresh in my mind) just ask your buddy gottlieb ...

yeah jeffery that was me who called elan  up and damanded to get my one on one with ricci. and they handed me off to you (cause ricci was recovering from surgery) ....Like that was true .
you see old boy zaretzky even jeffery (a true sadist ,in my opinion )agreed with me when I told him about that little incident on the boat, that it was sick and preverted . In fact kenny if you need to be refreshed just ask that (my opinion)sadist jeffery what i remembered .But DON"T YOU EVER ASK ME TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT IT AGAIN YA PFREAK.

Oh and jeffery there is nothing with wanting to be a shoe salesman .There is something dead wrong about treating adult s and children the way you and McCann and kruglik and ricci and zaretzky did which was abusively sadistic.With absolutely no training in any conseling or psychology what so ever .

In 1971 There was a professor Stanley Milgram who conducted a few experiments that dealt with students shocking other students (college)and also mock guards and mock prisioners .The results of these experiments were shocking and horrifying and these type of experiments were considered dangerous .

Jerry Davidson ,ricci's partner was a psychology teacher at harvard . I got in to elan in 74 .You would think that a harvard teacher would have known about the Milgram  studies . I am sure he did. Yet he  allowed the abusive and sadistic lunacy that elan proffered as therapy. (they made money abusing people )

As for the other fellow in this picture .Yeah I don't know him except that he was weird . charlie is a saint compared to the other folks in the picture . These men were pros when it turned weird ....and Manson is  still in prison ,which in my opinion is where these men should all be for the rest of their natural lives


Boy it is such a slap in the gut to see pictures of these freaks .

And these freaks grin.

peace

Matthiam

[Paul St. John]

"In 1971 There was a professor Stanley Milgram who conducted a few experiments that dealt with students shocking other students (college)and also mock guards and mock prisioners .The results of these experiments were shocking and horrifying and these type of experiments were considered dangerous .

I know of those experiments.

... very applicable.  This is exactly what you have going on here.  Someone had posted here, then when they tried suing they ran into a problem, as most of the acts were not carried outr by the school, but rather by students.

One would think that the reposts on those experiments could be offerred into such a case possibly.  There is solid evidence in these experiments, and elsewhere as to the power of athority.


Also, it's interesting to me, the extent to which the athority=phenomenon, has not only the students, but also on the parents.

Paul St. John

[SyN]

exactly paul.  They only had students restrain and be physicall in my time probably due to the old schoolers writing to the gov of maine, to try and protect my generation of elan people. And god bless them for it.  Thats why the old schoolers not to call ya'll old but in terms of the 70's n 80's generation of elan kids, they are the ones who had it the worst, and they have helped the most.  I still dont know how the staff gets away with being therapist with no degree. Or how the place could give out high school diploma's.  It shows how fukd the system really is though and why places like elan need to be shut down.
SyN

[Matt C. Hoffman]

Well you see .I had this conversation with a Buzz Katsuck . he did the white wash investigation a  year ago last summer

buzz and I were talking and granted ,the residents did the dirty work for these men  .They were given direction and encouragemnet from these men .According to Buzz if these sadists (in my opinion) supervised the abuse and encouraged the abuse,then that in turn makes them responsible and culpable .

These men were adults .They came up with the ideas and themes for the gms and they were the ones who made the decisions . they are cupable and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law .

In my opinion for running a continuing crimnal enterprise (making money off of abusing adults as well as children )

It kinda gives new meaning to that old Steely Dan song ..I'm a Fool to Do your dirty work ...oh yeah .

No these freaks were responsible for the wellbeing of the residents  ,and the fact that someone says that their hands aren't dirty because they had the other residents do their dirty work ,is simply hogwash.  In my opinion they are freaks because of the sadistic nature of what they made other residents do to other residents .

and if you don't believe that there are incidences where they were actively involved in the abuse, then I have a pyramiad in the desert that I would like to sell you ...its really cool and has a real shiny light on top of it that from what I have been told you can see from the space shuttle

Just sheddin a little light

Matt

[Antigen]

On 2003-11-16 19:20:00, Matt C. Hoffman wrote:

 In my opinion they are freaks because of the sadistic nature of what they made other residents do to other residents.

This is highly significant. First, remember that to get on staff, they had to come up through the ranks themselves. They had to, not only understand the Program, but be it, really, even in the privacy of their own minds, believe it.

They may have some outsider staff now, I don't know. But it's absolutely essential to the structure of a TC to have a few old war veterans hanging around to project the program as self identity onto the newer captives.

It's also very important to get the captives to take as active a roll as possible in inflicting the Program onto the other inmates. It helps to better internalize the Program and it also props up the illusion that everyone in the world is with the Program and, if you doubt it, you're the only one, all alone.

From the bottom of any large organization looking up through the ranks, human greed and stupidity look a lot like a conspiracy.
--S. Gilbert

[SyN]

just like witnessing an accident or murder and not reporting it; that too is a crime why would abuse be any different.  I get ya Matt.
SyN

[Antigen]

WAY more than that, Syn. There's a good reason why I picked Charlie, of all people, to pose for that montage. They had a real hard time convicting him because he never actually laid a hand on anybody. Instead, he imposed his will on young kids to get them to do the dirty work for him. And, by some fairly credible accounts, he did it using techniques he learned from his Scientoloty days.

 

I tried not to work for, you know, anyone who ate children with their bare hands. I won't pretend that I was ideologically consistent.


--Dick Morris; Political consultant for Bill Clinton, Trent Lott and Tom Ridge

[Anonymous]

The Mantis here, Ginger this is exactly what Elan was about in the 90's , the staff stopped the dirty work and had the kidz do it to eachother, saying it was "positive peer pressure" I mean how does a 16 year old kid know how to restrain another child in a proper manner, they dont, and thats it, either way Elan is guilty of corrupting the minds of teen-agers with UN_PROVEN methods.

[Matt C. Hoffman]

Ah yes if the staff stopped doing the dirty work as Mr. mantis puts it then how did a child learn to properly restrain another person ?

Staffs hands aren't clean (as they seem to think)they obviously supervised to make sure that the proper restraing methods were used .

As for the abusive psychological terror, that posed as therapy in my opinion that came from the directors expansive knowledge of psychological torture (that was proffered as therapy)  learned over the past 28 years of having had direct hands on experience brutally abusing adults as well as kids .

In my opinion there is not a solvent stong enough to rid elan and its henchmen of the blood and carnage that they have on their hands from running (my opinion again)one of the sickest, sadisticly and brutally abusive place that was to care for adults (in the beginning)as well as children (in my day adults were mixed in with children)on the face of this earth.

the sad thing is that these henchmen ,terry mccann ,kruglik ,gottlieb ,zaretsky seem to think that they have gotten away with it .

Whats up with Sharon Terry trying to get slot machines at the race track ?  Thats where elans money is in that racetrack (well thats my opinion)I hope she gets denied  her precious slots ,thats just me wishing .