I am an exsafe counselor

[exsafecounselor]

Some different characters entered the discussion that seem less burdened by the past, so I am giving it another try.  Thanks for the question Anon.

[Anonymous]

On 2003-12-19 13:58:00, exsafecounselor wrote:

You sound like "the program" in the fact that a person has to either suport you blindly or be shunned.  





[ This Message was edited by: exsafecounselor on 2003-12-19 14:00 ]"

So then by this statement, you admit that "shunning" those who do not blindly follow the program was and is practiced??  Sounds cultish to me.

[Cayo Hueso]

On 2003-11-10 17:34:00, exsafecounselor wrote:

  Having worked with adults and kids, those who had something hanging over their head always did better.

Are you fucking serious?  That's not therapy, that's blackmail.  Helping an addict does not involve force...they might change for a while under threat, but it would never last.

Again, at SAFE, we never invented symptoms.  They came from the kid, parents, or other sources like police reports, arrest records, etc.

Problem with that is that the majority of those "symptoms" could also very well be normal teenage behavior.  Moodiness, bursts of anger, change of friends, drop in grades.......ALL of those are on EVERY list for EVERY treatment center I've ever seen and ALL of those "symptoms" ARE part of being a teenager.

<
If you think that smoking dope is so great, you should smoke with your daughter.  I am sure that will be a great bonding event for you.  

Funny you should mention that.  A real good friend of mine allowed her daughter to smoke when she was around 17.  They had always had open discussions about drugs.  The kid smoked for a few months and then moved onto a great nursing career.  The thing that impressed me the most about this was something the daughter said to me.  She said that because her mom had been honest with her about pot (the mom told her that the horror stories about it being the "gateway" drug were overblown) she believed her mom when she said that the rest of the drugs, including alcohol, were highly dangerous.  The mom explained all the risks involved with smoking pot, but without all the rhetoric that "the programs" spit out.  


Ever since this whole "drug war" thing started it's been a "cause du jour" for most people.  Scare tactics and rhetoric.  The ones that seem to be benefiting from all this "help" are the polititians, rehab centers and drug companies.

There's so much comedy on television.  Does that cause comedy in the streets?
-- Dick Cavett

[exsafecounselor]

Your comment is exactly why I left before.  You are more than happy to put words in my mouth, distort my statements, and misconstrue anything to serve your purpose.  We need to make a clear distinction in what we are talking about.  First, posting things on this forum is one thing.  Second, dealing with program parents and kids is another.  Regarding this forum, if all people are going to do is twist and manipulate what I write to fit their purpose, call me a child abuser, and be completely close minded then I am not interested.  Your foum will be pretty dull since only people like you will be posting.  I understand people's anger and lack of trust regarding people that worked at SAFE. Being skeptical is fine.  Being completely close minded is not.  I have learned some things from people on this forum that completely disagree me.  

Regarding dealing with people in the program at SAFE.  Parents and kids were not shunned for disagreeing.  They were educated, informed, and even confronted.  Exactly how they were dealt with depended upon the situation.  I would sometimes pull a kid out group and talk to them.  Sometimes, I would give them a pamphlet or book to read.  Sometimes I would have them congfronted in group.  It all depends.

[exsafecounselor]

Whether you like it or not or agree with it or not, people with some kind of outside force (legal, parental, family, etc.) that makes them goto and stay in treatment or more likey to succeed in treatment than people who do not.  A better understanding of the nature of an addict, would be helpful for you.  And yes, I am fucking serious.

Hopefully for the final time I will explain what I mean by symptoms.  In the DSM IV, there are symptoms that a person needs to have in order to be diagnosed with a substance abuse disorder.  They are not vague, nor are they normal for a teenager to experience.  By the way, a sudden drop in grades indicates that something is going wrong with a teenager.  It could be many things, but it is definitely a problem.

Each parent has their own choice on how they raise their child.  Your friend made her choice and according you it worked out great.  Thats nice.

[Cayo Hueso]

Please tell me where I put words in your mouth.  I quoted directly from YOUR POSTS, with the exception of the QUESTION I asked about the shunning.  I asked you to CLARIFY what you said...

Any response to the other things I wrote??

and....where the fuck did I call you a child abuser.  Ya know, until this last post you wrote I WAS willing to listen to you...I even leave room for the possibility that SAFE was not as abusive as Straight or SAFE before you got there, but then you go and post this shit?!?!?!

Like I said, PLEASE tell me where I put words in your mouth or called you a child abuser.

Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.
--Winston Churchill

[exsafecounselor]

I dont expect for people to have blind faith in anything I say.  I am more than happy to prove whatever I am able to prove.  Some things can not be proven.  For example, I can not prove that SAFE is not secretly receiving money from the government.  Despite the fact that I was in meetings that discussed money in detail.  Yet again, the person who stated this can not prove that it exists either.  I have been able to prove somethings however.  For example, one person questioned the credential that I and others had while I worked at SAFE.  I was easily able to prove that.  So all I have to say is challenge me and I will do my best.

[exsafecounselor]

You did not call me a child abuser.  You are right. However, if you look at the post from the beginning, there are quite a few adjectives that others have used to describe me.  I was speaking generally about what people have called me, not you.   Regarding putting words in my mouth, shunning was what I was specifically referring to.  In addition, people take what I write and then instead of asking a question to clarify, then make their own conclusions that ALWAYS support their point of view.  It is nice to know that you are open minded.  I look forward to your questions and comments.

[Cayo Hueso]

How many kids that were brought into SAFE for an eval. were turned away.......my guess is none to maybe .05%....I could be wrong, but doubt it.  A cookie cutter approach to drug use/abuse, behavioral problems, eating disorders etc. is insane.....no ONE solution works for everyone but according to the program they can fix whatever ails your kid.

In questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution."

--Thomas Jefferson 1798

[exsafecounselor]

Good point.  We were licensed and marketed ourselves as a drug rehab center.  Only kids with drug abuse problems were admitted.  In the 2 1/2 years I worked there, maybe 3 kids were not admitted after the evaluation period.  I think the point you are trying to make is that we took every kid for any reason.  Is that correct?  That is not the case.  One kid of those three, I vividly recall beacause he was mentally impaired well beyond the capabilites of our facility.  The rest were discharged becuase a DSM IV diagnosis could not be established.

[exsafecounselor]

Have you read through all the posts.  I think you would find it interesting reading.

[Cayo Hueso]

That's partially the point I was trying to make.  The other part is that it seems that no matter what the amount of use of drugs, the program puts them all in...I'm not speaking of anorexia or simple behavior problems.  Kids are going to try drugs, some will abuse them for the rest of their lives, some will grow out of it, some will try them once or twice and leave them alone.  If you get a jumpy or overly frightened parent (which seems to be one of the preferred methods of signing clients up, scare the shit out of the parents) it's very easy for kids that truly are experimenting to get caught up in the frenzy this stupid fucking drug war has created.

Marijuana clearly has medicinal value.
 Thousands of seriously ill Americans have
 been able to determine that for themselves,
 albeit illegally. Like my own family, these
 individuals did not wish to break the law but
 they had no choice.
 

--Lyn Nofziger, former deputy chairman of the Republican National Committee

[exsafecounselor]

You are absolutely right.  The kids that were discharged during the eval period, had just experimented and had not really abused drugs.  In an earlier post, I actually cut and paste from the DSM the signs and symptoms that someone has to have to get diagnosed.  Personally, I think that a place like SAFE best serves those kids who have a pretty extensive drug history and who have been to treatment and failed someplace else.  That is just my personal opinion, however.

_________________
There is not a truth existing which I fear or would wish unknown to the whole world.

--- Thomas Jefferson

[ This Message was edited by: exsafecounselor on 2004-01-20 13:23 ]

[Cayo Hueso]

yeah, I've read through the posts.  

One more point, if SAFE was as you say it was when you were there (not saying I believe or disbelieve that but for the benefit of this discussion let's say it's true) great, but there was obviously a problem before and obviously a problem after you were there.  Seems that it would be more helpful to address that than to just keep saying over and over that it wasn't abusive when you were there.  If it truly wasn't, then great, nothing needs to be done about the time period when you were there, but things were and ARE different now.  I personally witnessed a kids who tried to leave being thrown head first into a car by parents and phasers.  This was 2 years ago.

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
--Albert Einstein

[exsafecounselor]

Here is something else that might surprise you.  I completely agree in making marijuana legal for MEDICINAL PURPOSES ONLY.  For God's sake, if someone is sick and can benefit from anything, who care what it is as long as they get better.