I am an exsafe counselor

[Antigen]

On 2003-11-05 07:36:00, exsafecounselor wrote:

I am not saying that this is the only way to help kids. I am saying that it is one way to do it and it is not damaging or harmful when it is applied correctly.

Sorry, you're just wrong. All good intentions aside, it's harmful to isolate a child from everyone and everything they've ever known. Add to that the strict regimentation, constant prying and pushing for confessions and personal info and it becomes extremely harmful.

Clients over 18 can leave at their leisure.

What's the first and most impotent rule???

If a parent wants to pull a minor child, what kind of health care professionals would we be if we did not hold the parent accountable for doing something which is not in their best interest.

Health professionals!?  :rofl:  :rofl:

Again at Safe, every client past 30 days, has been diagnosed with some kind of drug problem.

Coerced confession is not an accepted diagnostic method, buddy.

Removing a child prematurely is not in their best interest. If you went to your doctor with a fever and he prescribed you an anitbiotic and you told him that you were not going to take it, what would you want your doctor to do?

Oh, well, now that you put it that way. Of course I'd want my doctor to have his staff tackle me to the floor, force the antibiotic down my throat and hold me incommunicado for a couple of years till I lost the will to report the assault. Wouldn't anyone?

We felt an obligation to acting in the best interest of the parents and child to try and get them to do the correct thing-which was stay.

In the more commonly accepted reality, this is what is called coercion, blackmail and false imprisonment.

During my time at SAFE, there was always an exec. staff member behind group. There was never an exception.

If a client wanted to report abuse, they simply took it up the chain of command and within about 30 mintues they call 180096abuse (If I remember correctly).

Bullshit. Who do you think you're talking to, buddy? You must not be trying to impress those of us who know the program so I'm guessing you're addressing the lurkers. This is a lie, plain and simple. No one who would think of reporting abuse is allowed any kind of access to the kids.

Don't laugh when you leave this courtroom, thinking you have beat the system because you have looked these things up yourself. We are going to get you down the road.
http://proliberty.com/observer/20020101.htm' target='_new'>Washington Superior CourtJudge Rebecca Baker

[exsafecounselor]

Ginger/Antigen, I think you had a completely different experience while you were in treatment, than when I worked there.  You keep asking me this question so I will tell you-Honesty is the first and most important rule.  

Have you ever thought that maybe we are both right.  That bad things happened to you and you completely disagree with the treatment modality and how it was applied.  I have no problem accepting that.  With that in mind, you need to be open to the idea that what I am saying is truthful.

Let me ask you a question regarding the doctor and antibiotic analogy.  Why did you automatically turn to an abusive option?  I guess this is what you experienced and saw.  At SAFE, during my time there, we would talk to parents about pulling their kids, not tackle them.  The same applied to overage clients.  We would talk to them.  There is no other option.  Call HRS in Orlando and ask them if any SAFE clients have ever called the abuse hotline.  I know they have because they would often times do it from my office or in my presence.  Also, ask HRS how many staff members have ever been arrested or charged with child abuse.  I think you will find that despite the probably well in the hundreds of abuse calls, not one staff member has ever been charged or arrested.

[kaydeejaded]

I am sure your experience as a counselor was different then anyones experience in "treatment"

also I am sure no one from safe called anyone my guess is they has no access to a phone until higher phases and by then were too terrified to put there status in danger and not be believed and be back on level one again or whater "safe" called it.

To the best of my knowledge you Still have not answered my one and only burning question would you put your child in Safe?

hmmm??

If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit  people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good?  Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race?

--Frederic Bastiat -- 1801-1850

[exsafecounselor]

I replied to that a couple of messages ago.  Please read above.

[kaydeejaded]

Would not believe the answer is that a yes? That is not an answer. It is a "cop-out" to use program speak............. :roll:

What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson

[exsafecounselor]

I would move to Orlando and be a local host home parent-provided what I wrote earlier was happening.

[Antigen]

A friend of mine pulled CPS reports on SAFE just a few years ago. Not one report came up. If kids were calling from your office, somebody was deleting the records soon after. You should request those reports. You might be surprised (unless you really are Brian and not a former client staffer)

That's not too surprising, though. I know of a former HRS caseworker who personally filed three reports w/ the child abuse hotline in Tally. When he checked a year later they'd also vanished.

I don't believe your story because so many people have told me otherwise. You asked to hear from former SAFE clients, you got an eyeful from one of them and you haven't responded at all. You also haven't explained how 1995 was only three years ago in your world. :wink:

I know for a fact that they don't let adults leave because, just about a year and a half ago, a half dozen or so friends of mine witnessed a 21 year old young man try to run on the way out to the car at night. The response from the group (including parents) was just exactly the same as it ever was in The Seed in the `70's or in Straight in the `80's or in the interview by the girl who tried to make a break for the door her first open meeting night in around `99. It seems highly unlikely to me that everything changed for you from 92 - 95 then suddenly changed back again immediately after you left.

In short, your story doesn't wash. That's why I asked about the first and most impotent rule. You're not being honest, friend.

Power concedes nothing without a demand. The limit of oppression is determined by the extent of the endurance of the oppressed.
--Frederick Douglas

[exsafecounselor]

It is always nice to make new friends.   I do not recall ever writing that I worked there three years ago.  Three years ago I was not even in the State of Florida.  Like you, I am surprised, shocked, and disappointed by many of the things that I am hearing and reading about the SAFE program now.  My last tie to when I worked just left last week.  The program has changed from when I worked there.  1995-2003 Alot can happen in 8 years.  The biggest change has been the clinical director.  We had a wonderful one when I worked there.  Personally I could not stand her, but she knew what she was talking about and put the kids first.  

Brian Seeber has taken over for Loretta and it is my understanding that he has a child in the program.  This is bullshit.  Program parents should have nothing to do with running the program they are in.  It violates the ethics of counseling which state that you can not have a dual relationship with a client.

If what you are saying about adults is true, call the police and report kidnapping.  You brought a vaild point, I dont think HRS keeps records anymore unless it is a founded case of abuse.

_________________
Tis hard for an empty bag to stand upright.
-Ben Franklin

[ This Message was edited by: exsafecounselor on 2003-11-05 10:11 ]

[Antigen]

On 2003-11-05 10:10:00, exsafecounselor wrote:

" The program has changed from when I worked there.  1995-2003 Alot can happen in 8 years.  The biggest change has been the clinical director.  We had a wonderful one when I worked there.  Personally I could not stand her, but she knew what she was talking about and put the kids first.  

Loretta Parish was on staff before the name change and still on staff through the time when Weaver Hastings and Jeff H were there.

Brian Seeber has taken over for Loretta and it is my understanding that he has a child in the program.  This is bullshit.  Program parents should have nothing to do with running the program they are in.  It violates the ethics of counseling which state that you can not have a dual relationship with a client.

?? WTF are you talking about! Parent staff have always been a part of the program. This goes back to the days of Helen Peterman w/ The Seed, Straight and LIFE and continues to this day. Again, it's very hard for me to believe that they quit all these messed up practices just for you while you were there then switched back to the same program as soon as your back was turned.

It seems more likely to me that your perceptions are a little cloudy as a result of having gone through the program yourself. This is pretty evident from your inability to see that imprisonment is just about the only word to describe how SAFE keeps their clients from leaving.

If what you are saying about adults is true, call the police and report kidnapping.  You brought a vaild point, I dont think HRS keeps records anymore unless it is a founded case of abuse.

DCYF, like the police, is required to keep all records. The trouble is that, just as in Ft. Lauderdale in The Seed's hay day and like Pinellas in Straight's hayday, the police cheat for the program.

When the kidnapping occured, the folks who were there protesting tried to block the car from leaving while calling 911 on the cell phone. The car, driven by a member of the parents' group, left out the back way. The cops never got there for some time and, when they did, it wasn't about a kidnapping complaint, it was a tresspassing complaint against the protestors. The cops simply refused to take the complaint till a couple of people traveled back to Orlando the next day and insisted on it again.

Again, who do you think you're fooling here?

As your attorney, it is my duty to inform you that it is not important that you understand what I'm doing or why you're paying me so much money.  What's important is that you continue to do so.
--Hunter S. Thompson's Samoan Attorney

[ehm]

Morally and ethically. What you are doing is destroying their trust in you, forever. The Program of which you speak is bad for children and adults. PERIOD. You people act like children aren't people. Like they'll forget false imprisonment for emotional problems that can be closely related to the family itself, and should seek counseling for as a whole. Isolating the child only invites that one thing... ISOLATION! Perhaps you never saw the abuse, misconduct and dysfunction of the center you worked for, but I'd just about bet my life on the fact that it was there. Everyday, it was there. You were either too blind to see or too willing to turn the other cheek or both. Either way, I'll bet somewhere inside of you, YOU KNEW. Why else would you be here? Curiosity blew your cover.

Lying to children is NEVER right.
Never, ever, ever, EVER. Unless you want them to grow up not trusting you... What kind of a parent/person gambles with such a thing? One that has no business being a parent or working with children or people in general for that matter.

Lying and force get you in trouble, not helped.

The fact is the fact, the program is evil, and every attempt to make
chicken salad out of chicken shit has resulted in a Chicken shit
sandwich, No pickle on the side could ever change that.

http://fornits.com/anonanon/video/bingo.ram' target='_new'>BINGO!

[exsafecounselor]

Again, I think I have not made myself clear.   Parents have always been involved with the program, as program parents-open meetings, parent group, host homes, etc.  Their involvement has been as people receiving family therapy.  Brian Seeber in addition to this role, is the Program Director.  He is an employee of SAFE.  He works there in addition to being in family therapy there.

Whats the big deal?  Say Brian gets confronted for breaking a program rule by a staff member on Friday or Sunday.  He is in a position to fire, reprimand, etc. that same employee when he shows up to work on Monday.  Does that make sense?  Not to me.

Also, there is a difference between the Clinical Director and the Program Director.  Have you guys forgotten your Chain of Command?  Loretta P was the Program Dir.  The person I was referring was the clincial director-the person who was responsible for client care.




[ This Message was edited by: exsafecounselor on 2003-11-05 12:19 ]

[Antigen]

Yes, Helen Peterman, Cathy Cone, Miller Newton, the Semblers, Kathy Crow, Bill Oliver and, I'm sure, a whole slew of other execs came up through the ranks in exactly the same way Brian Seeber did. I don't know where Loretta Parrish came from, but if she came in by some other way, she's the exception, not the rule.

Speaking of the Chain of Command, did you ever read this report?
http://thestraights.com/reports/WhySeni ... elapse.doc

If so, what do you think?

People who are willing to give up freedom for the sake of short term security, deserve neither freedom nor security.

--Benjamin Franklin

[exsafecounselor]

I have no problem with parents who have completed the program and their aftercare, who are qualified to work there.  They should not work there if they are an active client.

I will read that article and let you know.  I appreciate you not saying I was a liar or full of shit in that last post-haha.

[Antigen]

Brian's kid was either a 5th phaser or on staff back in 2000 when I met Brian. How damned long does this new and improved program take, anyway?

I don't know if you're lying or just a tad bit in denial. But I know that a lot of what you're saying is not true.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
--Bruce Lee

[Aqua Fortis]

OK, everyone's so busy this and that, but, would the exsafecounselor please answer the questions I asked in an earlier post, last one on page 7. Thank you.

Aqua Fortis