Sklyline Journey License REVOKED

[Anonymous]

On 2006-07-06 10:10:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2006-07-06 09:56:00, Anonymous wrote:


"

On 2006-07-03 17:41:00, Pls help wrote:



"If your kid had a hardcore meth addiction why would you not seek proper medical treatment with real doctors as opposed to sending you kid to some programme in the middle of nowhere?







If these programmes are not designed to scare middle america then why do so many have lame catch all surveys with questions like:



is your child sexually active?



Do you suspect your child of drinking or "experimenting with drugs?



Does your child have trouble following basic rules?



and the perenial favourites which they all seem to have a variation of



Do you feel your child is susceptable to peer pressure?



Have you noticed a drop in your child's grades?







after ticking the boxes for all of these questions to see what the prognosis was for



WWASPS, Aspen (who seemed to house many programmes in free and easy utah),& whose "video therapist" advised "that it is always worse than you think" without defining what "it" was, Changing winds (located in rural montana) & many others, I found most of them claimed my "child" was at least at moderate risk & I should consider a programme. Of what risk who knows?



 Herpes? Being an embarassment to the family? Terminal brattyness? hardcore drug addiction?







Because if it was the first three, by all means send the kid off to be told what an awful person they are for a few months or even years depending on how compliant they are. Especially do this if you are a stepmom & you married dad for his money & not his shitty kids.  They can move through a series of levels or everyones favourite euphemism "phases" & if they are really good they can have sugar on their cereal. That will learn em! @ least your friends who have polite well behaved kids dont have to witness the little monster you seem to have raised.







In the event that your kid actually has an addiction or a mental illness which requires a doctor, to quote everybodys favourite Aspen Salesman Dr Phil



"what are you thinking""

Meth addictions have different levels. If the person is snorting, it's one thing. Smoking is worse. Injecting is bottom-line dangerous shit, and the addiction is far more harrowing. Most programs are reluctant to take IV drug users for that reason. But still, you're assuming (again): Any kid in trouble must be mentally ill. That's just not true.





For most of the kids in alternative programs, the drug use is part of a behavior pattern. If the behavior and its reasons are not addressed, then de-tox and CDC programs are useless. They also tend to be ineffective because they run 28 days, regardless of results. In addition, they can cost $30,000 for that one month.





You also assume "middle America" is stupid, but that's your problem, I guess. The questions you cite as designed to "scare" them are standard questions on all apps for all forms of treatment. Do you think the doctors and therapists shouldn't know about problems in school, drug use, etc? How could you try to work with a kid whose background and behaviors are a mystery?





Assuming again . . . so the picture you entertain is kids having it hammered into their heads that they're awful people? It astounds me that you seem to endorse that, but you still don't get what goes on at the alternative programs.





Contrary to all the hype, most programs are trying to show the kids how valuable they are by holding them to a standard and insisting they start practicing some self-respect. It's okay to challenge kids, you know; they don't need someone patting them on the head and teaching them how vulnerable and powerless they are. They need someone to point out that they're capable and powerful, and teach them to develop that in a positive way.





You really should consider visiting a few of these places. Every one of your posts is filled with ignorance and assumptions. "

Yeah, right - ANON, maybe YOU ought to visit a few of theses over-crowded Behavior Modification warehouses and see for yourself just how wrong you are about what really goes on in these places.  It's all about teaching kids to suspend their critical thinking skills and jump through hoops like trained rats. Reward and Punishment. Real productive shit, eh?  Like parents can't do this themselves at home and without stripping kids of their dignity?  



You are an ignorant jackass.  Kids don't need programs, they need parents whose values and beliefs don't include abusing their kids by proxxy.



 :flame: "

If I say black and you say white, I guess we can assume one of us is a jack-ass. But it may be we're talking about two different things. I've been to behavior mod facilities--as a student, a parent, and an employee. Some are wonderful places, and some suck out loud.

I don't feel that my critical thinking skills are impaired by my experience, and I've never been good at the hoop thing. I do tend to be extremely skeptical, buying very few sensationalist stories. Sometimes the human psyche thrills to stories like that, but the sort of unsupported stories I've heard, most of which are counter to my own experience, just don't impress me.  

I'm suggesting that folks who want to be authorities on the subject try to gain perspective based on broader experience.

[Anonymous]

Who let the trolls out?

Get the fuck back in your God damn hole.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-07-06 15:43:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2006-07-06 10:10:00, Anonymous wrote:


"

On 2006-07-06 09:56:00, Anonymous wrote:



"

On 2006-07-03 17:41:00, Pls help wrote:




"If your kid had a hardcore meth addiction why would you not seek proper medical treatment with real doctors as opposed to sending you kid to some programme in the middle of nowhere?









If these programmes are not designed to scare middle america then why do so many have lame catch all surveys with questions like:




is your child sexually active?




Do you suspect your child of drinking or "experimenting with drugs?




Does your child have trouble following basic rules?




and the perenial favourites which they all seem to have a variation of




Do you feel your child is susceptable to peer pressure?




Have you noticed a drop in your child's grades?









after ticking the boxes for all of these questions to see what the prognosis was for




WWASPS, Aspen (who seemed to house many programmes in free and easy utah),& whose "video therapist" advised "that it is always worse than you think" without defining what "it" was, Changing winds (located in rural montana) & many others, I found most of them claimed my "child" was at least at moderate risk & I should consider a programme. Of what risk who knows?




 Herpes? Being an embarassment to the family? Terminal brattyness? hardcore drug addiction?









Because if it was the first three, by all means send the kid off to be told what an awful person they are for a few months or even years depending on how compliant they are. Especially do this if you are a stepmom & you married dad for his money & not his shitty kids.  They can move through a series of levels or everyones favourite euphemism "phases" & if they are really good they can have sugar on their cereal. That will learn em! @ least your friends who have polite well behaved kids dont have to witness the little monster you seem to have raised.









In the event that your kid actually has an addiction or a mental illness which requires a doctor, to quote everybodys favourite Aspen Salesman Dr Phil




"what are you thinking""

Meth addictions have different levels. If the person is snorting, it's one thing. Smoking is worse. Injecting is bottom-line dangerous shit, and the addiction is far more harrowing. Most programs are reluctant to take IV drug users for that reason. But still, you're assuming (again): Any kid in trouble must be mentally ill. That's just not true.







For most of the kids in alternative programs, the drug use is part of a behavior pattern. If the behavior and its reasons are not addressed, then de-tox and CDC programs are useless. They also tend to be ineffective because they run 28 days, regardless of results. In addition, they can cost $30,000 for that one month.







You also assume "middle America" is stupid, but that's your problem, I guess. The questions you cite as designed to "scare" them are standard questions on all apps for all forms of treatment. Do you think the doctors and therapists shouldn't know about problems in school, drug use, etc? How could you try to work with a kid whose background and behaviors are a mystery?







Assuming again . . . so the picture you entertain is kids having it hammered into their heads that they're awful people? It astounds me that you seem to endorse that, but you still don't get what goes on at the alternative programs.







Contrary to all the hype, most programs are trying to show the kids how valuable they are by holding them to a standard and insisting they start practicing some self-respect. It's okay to challenge kids, you know; they don't need someone patting them on the head and teaching them how vulnerable and powerless they are. They need someone to point out that they're capable and powerful, and teach them to develop that in a positive way.







You really should consider visiting a few of these places. Every one of your posts is filled with ignorance and assumptions. "

Yeah, right - ANON, maybe YOU ought to visit a few of theses over-crowded Behavior Modification warehouses and see for yourself just how wrong you are about what really goes on in these places.  It's all about teaching kids to suspend their critical thinking skills and jump through hoops like trained rats. Reward and Punishment. Real productive shit, eh?  Like parents can't do this themselves at home and without stripping kids of their dignity?  





You are an ignorant jackass.  Kids don't need programs, they need parents whose values and beliefs don't include abusing their kids by proxxy.





 :flame: "

If I say black and you say white, I guess we can assume one of us is a jack-ass. But it may be we're talking about two different things. I've been to behavior mod facilities--as a student, a parent, and an employee. Some are wonderful places, and some suck out loud.



I don't feel that my critical thinking skills are impaired by my experience, and I've never been good at the hoop thing. I do tend to be extremely skeptical, buying very few sensationalist stories. Sometimes the human psyche thrills to stories like that, but the sort of unsupported stories I've heard, most of which are counter to my own experience, just don't impress me.  



I'm suggesting that folks who want to be authorities on the subject try to gain perspective based on broader experience. "

Were you involuntarily committed into a program? If so, how old were you at the time, what is the name of the program and how long were you there?

How many kids do you have and how old are they?

Do you own a program?  Work for one?  Sell them? Or all three?

[Anonymous]

On 2006-07-05 21:05:00, Milk Gargling Death Penalty wrote:

"Excellent point. People who abuse children should not have rights at all.



Your execution is scheduled for tomorrow."

Yes, YOU are a true idiot!

[AtomicAnt]

Contrary to all the hype, most programs are trying to show the kids how valuable they are by holding them to a standard and insisting they start practicing some self-respect. It's okay to challenge kids, you know; they don't need someone patting them on the head and teaching them how vulnerable and powerless they are. They need someone to point out that they're capable and powerful, and teach them to develop that in a positive way.

Okay, I'll bite. Explain to me how "holding them to a standard and insisting they start practicing some self-respect" makes someone feel valued and gives them self-esteem?

I don't think it does. It's the chicken and egg thing. I think if a child has good self-esteem by being treated properly in the first place, they will choose to adhere to their own good standards and have self-respect. What you (and forced programs) suggest is that you have the right to impose your own standards on other people and that by doing so you will force them to have self-respect and self-esteem. That makes no sense to me, nor is it an ethical approach to changing peoples' behavior.

Yes, it is okay (even necessary) to challenge kids. There is a huge difference in presenting a challenge and having someone accept it; as opposed to forcing some arbritrary task or behavior on someone in the guise of challenging them.

Your self-righteous cliches won't work here. Do you even think you made this crap up? I've heard this all before hundreds of times from people just like you who believe instead of think.

Oh, and I don't recall ever reading on Fornit's that the best approach towards helping kids is to pat them on the head and teach them how powerless they are. I do think lots of hugs and affection would work wonders.

[Anonymous]

WEll, so anon has been there as a student, A PARENT AND EMPLOYEE.  I think that says it all, the parent and employee part anyway.

BTW when you kidnap, restrain and force a kid into being reprogrammed you are absolutely shoving their faces in the fact that they are POWERLESS and VULNERABLE.  They certainly are not "powerful" and "capable" enough to refuse to take part.  And how does humiliating a child and violating their human rights make them feel "valuable"?  except as a money source for the "schools" and staff ( I won't degrade the word "teacher" by using it here)?  And to WHOSE and WHAT standard is it ok to force kids to be held to? :roll:

[Anonymous]

Just curious but if anon was there as a student and then a parent didn't s/he learn enough as a student to keep from having to send his/her own kid to a TBS?  Curious as to which program this was and why s/he felt compelled to send the kid there.

[Oz girl]

On 2006-07-06 10:14:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Pls Help, it is astounding that just a few weeks ago you had a brother who was considering the placement of your young, young niece at WWASP Majestic Ranch, right? Now, you live in Australian YET you attempt to post like the ultimate authority on every program, as if you have insight into every parent in the U.S. with your judgemental ravings. You don't know shit, lady."

I dont attepmt to be an authority any more than anyone else on this site. But i have spent the last month or so looking at a varitey of programmes and speaking to people that have gone or reading the posts on struggling teens of those who send their kids to programmes. The range of problems that kids went for was pretty broad and at times random.
 Perhaps you can enlighten me with the names of some programmes which do not promote themselves as having "behavoural modification". Perhaps you can tell me why a country which according to the new York times has a teen pregnancy rate which has been dropping steadily for the last 25 years , and whose kids are statistically no worse behaved than their counter parts in any other oecd country needs such programmes?

If the mainstream media does not have any influence on middle America then why is the common  Oprah/ Dr Phil headline "A show no parent can miss" Do these shows rate really highly because nobody in thhe whole country watches them? I know people do in Australia. Perhaps they only survive because of the overseas market.

How many programmes have a significant # of pregnant girls in them  anyway? Why is there such a large amount of websites which tell parents before the kid sets foot in the door of the place that their kid manupulates & lies. This sounds remarkably defensive for a place which is all about building the kid up & making them "better".

If a person can tick a # of boxes on an internet survey & be told that thier child is a moderate risk to high risk how is this not a scare tactic?  Can you honestly say that real therapists would recommend a progamme based on moodyness, inability to follow household rules, "suspicion" of alcohol or drug use & slipping grades? i would hope not.

I get the feeling that the anon/s who wears a bag but keeps accusing me of being anti american & ignorant just does not like the idea that some outsider can dare  be arrogant enough to ask these questions. I am also sorry if you feel judged by me. I note that many of your more robust countrymen like three springs and nilanthic can participate in a fairly passionate & fiesty debate without needing to cry about being judged or claiming that only an American can have any insight into or knowlege of the industry. [ This Message was edited by: Pls help on 2006-07-07 03:42 ]