Ridge Creek "School" - Serious Safety Issues/ORS Violation

[Whooter]

Some random statistics to compare to:

When junior and senior high students around the nation were asked to identify the causes of the most recent fights they had witnessed, most frequent responses were:

    * Someone insulted someone else or treated them disrespectfully (54 percent).
    * There was an ongoing feud or disagreement (44 percent).
    * Someone was hit, pushed, shoved, or bumped (42 percent).
    * Someone spread rumors or said things about someone else (40 percent).
    * Someone could not control his or her anger (39 percent).
    * Other people were watching or encouraging the fight (34 percent).
    * Someone who likes to fight a lot was involved (26 percent).
    * Someone didn't want to look like a loser (21 percent).
    * There was an argument over a boyfriend or girlfriend (19 percent).
    * Someone wanted to keep a reputation or get a name (17 percent)


Link

If you take a look at kids who are having problems and emotional issues these numbers are going to go way way up.  Kids who live a more at-risk lifestyle tend to get into more physical fights according to reports.



...

[heretik]

And you know this ... how? From what I've read, there were also other staff members who had felonies on their records. From the sound of it, Buccellato appears to have been quite aware of these priors and didn't/doesn't seem to have a problem with them. I s'pose a lot could depend on what the felony conviction was for, and when and how it was committed, eh?

I have not read about the other felonies myself and I have been reading this thread for years now.  I am only aware of the one here who speaks negative towards HLA and RCS.

Just so that we're crystal clear 'bout this... This thread was started just shy of four months ago by Troll Control.

How do you know that this former staff member lied? And how do you know that he was fired? This sounds like more opinion on your part, Whooter!

I have seen many inconsistencies in his stories and statements made.  He has also made statements as fact about RCS when he was fired years before that school was opened.  If you compare what RCSworkhorse describes (and he wasnt pleased with RCS) to what Troll Control describes it is not hard to see who is not credible.  RCSworkhorse is able to see the good and the bad within the same program and speak honestly about it even with a known bias.  We have never seen this from regulars here on fornits.  This gets back to another thread about honesty that we discussed earlier.

LOLOLLLL... As we all know, Hidden Lake Academy closed, and simply reopened as Ridge Creek School. They are basically the same place. They occupy the same location, reflect yet another variation of the same ownership, employ many of the same personnel, and avow the same or similar philosophy. They just go by a different name. There simply isn't the same shitload of wretched reviews and claims of abuse associated with RCS as there are of HLA when you google it. Yet.

Even Len Buccellato freely admits that RCS = HLA, and has even gone so far as to write letters to current and prospective parents to reassure them that, in fact, this is the case.

As to your contentions re. who is the more believable or "honest" former staffperson, has it ever occurred to you that they might both be believable? Since when have folks' personal experiences ever been the exact same "truth" as everybody else's? Your attempts to attribute a moral value to one person's sole post on here, just because you find it more palatable, is... well... more opinion on your part, dontcha think? And yet, aren't you the one who always claims to be such a "moderate" 'cuz you "accept all information equally?"

Really? His stories of HLA actually carry quite a lot of credibility here, but that's just my opinion. It's YOUR stories that appear to lack credibility, Whooter. Mostly because so many of your "facts" seem to contradict one another, but also because you seem to have an overriding agenda of your own. Of course, that's just my opinion, but at least I call it for what it is!  

I understand this is your opinion, Ursus.  But we have to keep in mind that you are radically anti-program.  I on the other hand am a moderate and able to see both sides of the issues fairly.  I understand that there are programs which are abusive and those that are not.  Many on fornits cannot see this and therefore hold a heavily biased and uniformed opinion of the industry.  Do you see what I mean?  So of course they would view my information as not credible because it does not fit with their (your) agenda.  

If you speak to people randomly on fornits they will tell you that they dont know anyone who has benefited from a program and therefore could not possibly speak to the positive side of the industry, most have only been exposed to negative information and experiences.

I am not frustrated or get upset with negative reports or positive reports, I accept all information equally.  But the anti-program group like yourself cannot make that statement.  Many of you close the door on information you dont want to hear or try to discredit the information or the person posting it.  You have been here long enough to witness this, Ursus.

Ya can spin it any way you want, Whooter. I've been accused of worse, and even of being the complete opposite!  :rofl:   While I have neither the time nor the inclination to haggle with you over the details today, I would like to point out one glaringly obvious inconsistency in your above seranade...

Namely, that — despite your professed "moderate" views (<cough cough>), you STILL to this day disavow the possibility of thought reform as being potentially damaging in and of itself. That is, that "the process" itself can wreak havoc with the psyche, not just the incidents of egregious abuse which may or may not also occur.

This, to my mind, is NOT a moderate view. Not to mention completely lacking in common sense. But that's just my opinion.

You liken thought reform to potty training. Or being in a program as being analogous to having an ear infection and getting IT "treated." These are really inappropriate analogies for methodologies and processes that seek to destroy and rewrite key concepts of self identity in vulnerable individuals with little or no choice in the matter, and certainly less than full understanding of the manipulations they are being subjected to.

Thanks Ursus   :notworthy:

[Dysfunction Junction]

I guess that claim of "7 to 1 staff to student ratio" was a lie.  It happens to be the opposite, according to the report.

Behavior management shall be limited to the least restrictive appropriate method, as described in the child's
service plan pursuant to Rule
This Requirement is not met as evidenced by:
Based on record review and staff interview, the agency failed to ensure that behavior
management is limited to the least restrictive appropriate method, as described in the child's
Room, Board, and Watchful Oversight Plan and in accordance with the prohibitions as specified
in the rules and regulations.
Findings Include
Interview with Resident #2 was conducted on 6/2820/2010 at 3:15 pm. Resident #2 said he/she
doesn't remember what happened during the incident, but he/she knows that he/she was in a
fight. When asked if he/she received a consequence for fighting, Resident #2 indicated that staff
sent him/her to the wilderness intervention program for 8 days.

Eight days of wilderness for a fight?  That doesn't seem like the punishment a "regular high school kid" would get for fighting.  Maybe a one or two day suspension.  This juvenile prison uses methods that are very harsh and outside the law according to the official reports.  

This is more like a prison camp than a school.  That's obvious.  And the adjudicated inmates running around assaulting staff, eachother and stealing cars and running from the police are kinda a giveaway, too.  Lols.

[Whooter]

Eight days of wilderness for a fight?  That doesn't seem like the punishment a "regular high school kid" would get for fighting.  Maybe a one or two day suspension.  This juvenile prison uses methods that are very harsh and outside the law according to the official reports.  .

Many kids would take a week in wilderness any time vs having to deal with the wrath of the parents.  Its a nice way for the kids to cool their jets and get centered again.  I am sure highschools would do this if they could.

This is more like a prison camp than a school.

You are lying once again, DJ.  Prisons actually lock the people down further and restrict them not send them to wilderness.  You dont know what you are talking about.



...

[RobertBruce]

Both Robert Bruce and Dysfunction Junction self admittedly failed at HLA and are obviously still frustrated by this. Bruce refused to be accountable for his actions and subsequently ran away and Dysfunction Junction was fired when they found out he lied on his application, he was previously arrested and convicted for selling drugs to kids.

Whoops. Looks like you forgot to provide a link.  :seg:

[RobertBruce]

You dont know what you are talking about.

Wrong John. You don't know what you're talking about. Having once been sent out on what was then called an intervention myself I can assure you no public school kid would opt to leave the safer environment that. Sent out in the woods with a bag full of granola, a bottle with water purification tablets, a tarp (no tents) and a rope. We were sent out to roam aimlessly around the Appalachian trail for miles on end for however long they felt like leaving you out there. No school, no contact with your family, no anything but what they give you, which is nothing.

Once again Whooter John highlights his ignorace of how little he knows or chooses to acknowledge about this abusive industry.

[Whooter]

Wrong John. You don't know what you're talking about.

Well, show us one prison which sends their prisoners to wilderness for fighting.  The readers know that you and DJ/troll control are full of crap, prisons dont do that they lock the prisoners down and further isolate them. You guys just make up whatever suits you at the time.

Having once been sent out on what was then called an intervention myself I can assure you no public school kid would opt to leave the safer environment that. Sent out in the woods with a bag full of granola, a bottle with water purification tablets, a tarp (no tents) and a rope. We were sent out to roam aimlessly around the Appalachian trail for miles on end for however long they felt like leaving you out there. No school, no contact with your family, no anything but what they give you, which is nothing.

Again you are lying (caught in a big one this time, Bobby) and this further supports that you just make up whatever suits you that day.  Here is an account of a staff person from RCS just a few pages back:


Link (regarding wilderness at RCS)

First, the students were all provided with a sleeping pad and a down sleeping bag in addition to thermal layers in case it got cold. The students were required to assist in the preparation of food but staff helped with food prep and were provided 3 square meals and two snacks each day. Students were also provided two, one litre water bottles and a were given access to water coolers and were encouraged to fill up many times throughout the day.

Once again Whooter, John highlights his ignorace of how little he knows or chooses to acknowledge about this abusive industry.

You mean, DJ and yourself, yes We do agree here.  The difference between your account, DJ's and myself is that I provide links to support my facts.  I just exposed several lies you and DJ told to the readers in the last 2 posts.  The absence of links on your end and the presence of links on my end always gets you guys in trouble.
I think this link is appropriate at this time:

Link



...

[Dysfunction Junction]

Considering that Whooter has admitted his long criminal history, many arrests and stints in jail, he should know a little more about lock-ups.  Everyone knows that only very few prisons (maximum security) use "isolation" (called "solitary confinement") and that it is used only for the most violent offenders.  Whooter has tipped his hand about the type of incarceration he endured with his description of prison.  He must have done a serious crime to end up in a Max prison in isolation.

Anyway...

Here's how the US government describes a minimum security prison, which seems to be just about identical to HLA/RCS:

Minimum security prisons are comprised of non-secure dormitories which are routinely patrolled by correctional officers...has no armed watch towers or roving patrol. There is less supervision and control over inmates in the dormitories and less supervision of inmate movement within the prison...

These minimum security prisons, like RCS, don't have any locked cells, no guard towers, no armed patrols and the inmates live "dormitory style" just like at the RCS prison camp.

Seems pretty similar to me.

[Whooter]

Considering that Whooter has admitted his long criminal history, many arrests and stints in jail, he should know a little more about lock-ups.  Everyone knows that only very few prisons (maximum security) use "isolation" (called "solitary confinement") and that it is used only for the most violent offenders.  Whooter has tipped his hand about the type of incarceration he endured with his description of prison.  He must have done a serious crime to end up in a Max prison in isolation.

Anyway...

Here's how the US government describes a minimum security prison, which seems to be just about identical to HLA/RCS:

Minimum security prisons are comprised of non-secure dormitories which are routinely patrolled by correctional officers...has no armed watch towers or roving patrol. There is less supervision and control over inmates in the dormitories and less supervision of inmate movement within the prison...

These minimum security prisons, like RCS, don't have any locked cells, no guard towers, no armed patrols and the inmates live "dormitory style" just like at the RCS prison camp.

Seems pretty similar to me.

I know that was tough for you, DJ, but you can see that prisons do not send their people to wilderness for fighting.  I think it was hard for you to admit you were wrong to lie about that.
As I corrected you earlier programs have a wilderness piece to them not prisons.  Thanks for reversing yourself and being clear.



...

[Dysfunction Junction]

The ORS cited RCS for sending kids to wilderness for fighting because it was too hash a punishment.  This is probably why minimum security prisons don't do that - it's illegal.  ORS cited RCS/HLA prison camp for it.  It's right in the report.

So we have RCS/HLA prison camp acting illegally by using punishments outside the law.  That's not good!

I will revise my statement.  RCS/HLA prison camp looks very much like a regular minimum security prison, but it has no protections in place to avoid the staff abusing the inmates with harsh and illegal punishments.

[seamus]

The ORS cited RCS for sending kids to wilderness for fighting because it was too hash a punishment.  This is probably why minimum security prisons don't do that - it's illegal.  ORS cited RCS/HLA prison camp for it.  It's right in the report.

So we have RCS/HLA prison camp acting illegally by using punishments outside the law.  That's not good!

I will revise my statement.  RCS/HLA prison camp looks very much like a regular minimum security prison, but it has no protections in place to avoid the staff abusing the inmates with harsh and illegal punishments.[/quote]

   kinda sounds like a county jail to me, im ju :rofl: st sayin'. What the fuck is DUE PROCESS any ways?

[Whooter]

The ORS cited RCS for sending kids to wilderness for fighting because it was too hash a punishment.  This is probably why minimum security prisons don't do that - it's illegal.  ORS cited RCS/HLA prison camp for it.  It's right in the report.

So we have RCS/HLA prison camp acting illegally by using punishments outside the law.  That's not good!

I will revise my statement.  RCS/HLA prison camp looks very much like a regular minimum security prison, but it has no protections in place to avoid the staff abusing the inmates with harsh and illegal punishments.

Thank you for being honest and admitting you were wrong about prisons having a wilderness piece.  We both agree now that prisons do not use wilderness.  We all know that it is not illegal because RCS is inspected periodically by the state.  I had you clean up one lie and then you go and tell another one.  tsk tsk.  (If you feel it is illegal you will need to present the law which prohibits it).  RCS should have use the least restrictive punishment first before proceeding to wilderness.  But this doesnt mean that Wilderness is illegal. lol    Interpretation of legal documents and these inspection reports can be a struggle for some people.  I will be here when you need help in this area.

Here is some first hand insight into RCS wilderness, some refreshing facts:

Link (regarding wilderness at RCS)

First, the students were all provided with a sleeping pad and a down sleeping bag in addition to thermal layers in case it got cold. The students were required to assist in the preparation of food but staff helped with food prep and were provided 3 square meals and two snacks each day. Students were also provided two, one litre water bottles and a were given access to water coolers and were encouraged to fill up many times throughout the day.



...

[Dysfunction Junction]

The ORS cited RCS for sending kids to wilderness for fighting because it was too hash a punishment.  This is probably why minimum security prisons don't do that - it's illegal.  ORS cited RCS/HLA prison camp for it.  It's right in the report.

So we have RCS/HLA prison camp acting illegally by using punishments outside the law.  That's not good!

I will revise my statement.  RCS/HLA prison camp looks very much like a regular minimum security prison, but it has no protections in place to avoid the staff abusing the inmates with harsh and illegal punishments.[/quote]

   kinda sounds like a county jail to me, im ju :rofl: st sayin'. What the fuck is DUE PROCESS any ways?

You're right, seamus, it's pretty much like the county jail or a minimum security prison.  Whooter was in a maximum prison I guess based his description of his solitary confinement while he was locked up.

As far as using wilderness, nobody said that was illegal.  What the ORS said was that it was illegal to send a kid for 8 days of wilderness for fighting.  That's what the report says and RCS/HLA prison camp was cited for it.  

I guess if Whooter has a problem with their findings he can call the ORS and demand they change their rules and rewrite the report.  But, for now, all we have to go on is the ORS report that says RCS/HLA prison camp used illegal punishment on the kids.

[Whooter]

The ORS cited RCS for sending kids to wilderness for fighting because it was too hash a punishment.  This is probably why minimum security prisons don't do that - it's illegal.  ORS cited RCS/HLA prison camp for it.  It's right in the report.

So we have RCS/HLA prison camp acting illegally by using punishments outside the law.  That's not good!

I will revise my statement.  RCS/HLA prison camp looks very much like a regular minimum security prison, but it has no protections in place to avoid the staff abusing the inmates with harsh and illegal punishments.[/quote]

   kinda sounds like a county jail to me, im ju :rofl: st sayin'. What the fuck is DUE PROCESS any ways?

You're right, seamus, it's pretty much like the county jail or a minimum security prison.  Whooter was in a maximum prison I guess based his description of his solitary confinement while he was locked up.

As far as using wilderness, nobody said that was illegal.  What the ORS said was that it was illegal to send a kid for 8 days of wilderness for fighting.  That's what the report says and RCS/HLA prison camp was cited for it.  

I guess if Whooter has a problem with their findings he can call the ORS and demand they change their rules and rewrite the report.  But, for now, all we have to go on is the ORS report that says RCS/HLA prison camp used illegal punishment on the kids.

You seem confused.  then you revise your statement.  You agree with Semus statement when he says RCS is acting illegally, they you say no one was acting illegally.  Your story changes with the wind.  Let me clear it up for you, DJ.

There is nothing illegal about wilderness Programs.  When you stated that RCS's use of wilderness is more like a prison you were wrong again.  Prisons do not use wilderness programs.  As far as the ORS citing RCS they never stated that their practices were illegal.  They said they should have used the least restrictive method (again you are lying to the readers).

Why not try to stick with the facts as they are written.  you have no experience with RCS or wilderness programs at all, DJ, and it shows.



...

[Whooter]

Both Robert Bruce and Dysfunction Junction self admittedly failed at HLA and are obviously still frustrated by this. Bruce refused to be accountable for his actions and subsequently ran away and Dysfunction Junction was fired when they found out he lied on his application, he was previously arrested and convicted for selling drugs to kids.

Whoops. Looks like you forgot to provide a link.  :seg:

whoops, sorry about that here it is:

Link



...