Author Topic: Does it get any more obvious than this???  (Read 3913 times)

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Offline Antigen

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Does it get any more obvious than this???
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2003, 02:42:00 PM »
Quote
On 2003-10-16 10:09:00, Anonymous wrote:

"No one will really know the effectiveness of residential treatment until they start doing some long-term surveys.  Doing things 20 yrs later and seeing where people are and how they are doing.

If you're really interested in this kind of info, you've come to the right place. One major purpose for hosting these forums and sites is to give folks who have been through the mill a place to tell their story and to dialog with others about it.

Quote

They would have to do this from a program that have been around a while like Provo Canyon.  

Not do stats on a cult based like Straight."


 :rofl:  
Check your facts. The Straight epoch goes all the way back to 1970, before a bunch of Seed parents and staff set up camp under that new corporate name. And it continues today in various locations under various names.

PC and all the WWASP schools go back to CEDU, which was founded by a Synanite. We all bruthus and sistas under the skin, friend.  :grin:

To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical.
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Offline Antigen

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Does it get any more obvious than this???
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2003, 09:21:00 PM »
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On 2003-10-16 09:31:00, Anonymous wrote:

"What's this new little tidbit of information on Marie Peart?  Does anyone know if she was previously working for wwasps, and if so, what happened?  Embezzlement???"

Says so at the WWASP rebuttal site (referenced somewhere around here) and her bio at http://helpyourteens.com/ seems to support that.

Until you've lost your reputation,you never realize what a burden it was or what freedom really is.

 


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/068483068X/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>MARGARET MITCHELL

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Offline Deborah

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Does it get any more obvious than this???
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2003, 11:14:00 PM »
Re: Alliance Therapy...

A wise person convinced me that we do not need professional, paid, "listeners". When you pay someone to listen, the relationship is compromised from the start. We all have our own solutions inside and are capable of resolving our difficulties, provided another will sit still long enough to listen, and refrain from butting in to give advice, criticize, or tell their own story. I found it to be very true.

Every read Dorothy Corkhill's book "Your Child's Self Esteem"? Children are more likely to "follow the rules" if they participated in creating the "rules". (Looks like research indicates the same to be true of therapy clients.)Yep, mom and dad have rules too. In a democractic household they are refered to as agreements- contrary of course to the way "agreements" is use in programs-where the program makes the rules, but calls them agreements and expects the teens to "keep their agreements"- another of their many mind fucks that they erroneously believe the teens don't see through.  How many ways can they say, "We will control you but strive to make you think it's your choice"?

Clients are more likely to stay in therapy if they feel they are in control...cause, bottom line they're all in therapy because they don't feel they are in control of SOMEthing in their life. They will allow theRAPISTS "so" much control. When they reach their reaction point, they WILL bail, because they HAVE to feel in control of something, and the pattern of running from someone else's control will kick in.

Could stem from being raised in an authoritarian household where they were not only "not in control", but were not even considered equal participants with atleast SOME rights.

Bottom line. Children learn what they live. If treated disrespectfully they are being conditioned to do the same in the future- to the next generation. Some create warehouses so they can control mass numbers of teens, because controlling only their own, does not satiate that knawing desire. Imagine how please they must feel. To be rolling in the dough by providing a "service" that satisfies their unmet childhood needs. To be paid WELL to act out your worst human traits. Mind blowing.

Fortunately, theRAPISTS can't ship them off to a warehouse for defiant clients... so they are forced to come up with more realistic "treatment" modalities... or starve... or change professions.

Wish the teens had the same power within the industry. Wouldn't that be a hoot. Imagine teens clamoring to get into HAH program (and away from their ignorant parents) because it was designed with respect as the guiding principal.

Oh yes, and the classic example "A Beautiful Mind". Contrary to the message in the movie, he was able to help himself, when he ditched the psych meds.


[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2003-10-16 20:32 ]
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Offline Antigen

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Does it get any more obvious than this???
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2003, 12:56:00 AM »
Funny, after reading that, two contradictory thoughts have been rollng around (in a fairly civil manner) in my mind.

One, I've never had any kind of formal therapy. (Some readers might suggest that `splains a lot. Ok, ha, ha. I get it.) But I've imagined a first conversation, which would have to start out with a definition of the relationship. Sort of like a first date. Aren't business and romance synonyms, or nearly so. And, being the wise ass that I am, I'd have to define it as "Here's $100. Will you be my friend for the next hour?"

And this reminds me of how much the psyche profession has always reminded me of the oldest profession. Now, here's another curve ball. I respect both professions about the same; more than some, less than others.

And two, there are the white hats and I think they're on my side. But it's been my observation that, in order to be a good shrink, one has to subvert the system. "Don't tell anyone, but if you want, we can just go for pizza if you prefer. I'm not going to give you any advice you don't ask for."

Whenever I think of the psyche profession, I think of the years when I used to pay the rent by answering phones for local doctors out of a call center in Margate. What a whore I was! For 8 - sometimes 12 or more hours a day, I did little else but try to pull the required info out of one irritated caller after another, sucking up abuse from patients who's doctors really, really didn't want to talk to them right then, only to eat shit from the doctors who didn't want the messages delivered according to their instructions and wanted any excuse to blame the operator.

But it fed my kids and paid the rent and, believe it or not, I was happy. I was happy because I didn't let the assholes get to me and for another reason. In between the hostile calls and the resulting hostile attiudes in the break room, I talked to some genuinely good people. Granted, they were getting paid to be someone's friend. But I think they would have been their friend anyway. Hell, some days, even when I knew they'd had a rough day, they had time to ask me how I was faring and to make me laugh. And they where paying me just to do a simple, rudamentary chore for them.

There are the white hats. I noticed that the folks who got into the trade for the love of the craft could handle any amount of workload and stress and, not only keep it together, but really thrive on it. Those guys were a small minority. One was one of the top neurosurgeons in the SE, just as long as he had his opiate fix. Most were pediatricans, geriatricians or shrinks. They were saints and good friends and made the rest of it bearable. They were the ones who, when Hurricane Andrew hit, went to not away from Miami.

But the ones who got into it for the money or to please the parents or some other really poor reason, you could spot them a mile away. (from the back, on their way to the airport when the big storm approached) One I remember ran a psyche office with "Stress Management" in the name.

Every day right around 5PM, rush hour, when all 1200 offices were calling in their on call and overnight or weekend instructions and all of their patients were shooting for broke trying to get that last call in before close of day, the head shrink from this office would reliably call in and tear a new asshole for whoever was unlucky enough to take the call. Might be that we'd picked up on the 2nd, not the first ring, maybe we stumbled on the Eastern European name of the new doctor on call. Sometimes it was just all the noise in the background. This certified and self proclaimed oracle of effective stress management practices just needed to find some subserviant to pin their feet to the ground and pimp slap them around to relieve the stresses of the day. I guess she subscribed to the Clint Eastwood method of stress management.

Just because the fates must love me, their phone number was similar to some guy named Mike who ran a lawn service and advertised broadly and, apparently, had a soft spot for some dyslexic typsetter. I used to love taking those calls!

"Good evening, XXX Stress Management XXXX. Who's calling please?"

"Is this Mike's lawn service?"

"No, I'm sorry, this is XXX Stress Management XXXX. Would you like to leave a message?"

"No, I'm sorry, I must have the wrong number."

"Buddy, you got that right!"

Most of the time, when the psyche industry comes up with some Earth shaking breakthrough discovery, well then I think of stone soup. Every important new discovery seems to point to the idea that the term "professional counseling" is an oxymoron. All anyone really needs is a good friend who won't turn on them. A whore will do, in a pinch. It's straight up, honest business and everyone understands and accepts the terms. But it's just not the same.

Now, Debbie, I note that you don't have rigid rules about foul or inapropriate language. Me neither. You might be interested to know (the local kids are awed by it) but I don't impose those kinds of arbitrary language restrictions on my kids, either, even when they're toddlers. Instead, I try to teach them the rules as I find them.

I won't scold my kid for saying "Fuck" in benign context. I will scold my kid for calling her sister stupid just to be mean. And I remind them, apparently often enough, that some people take offence to such language and that they'd better be sure that the people they talk to are going to take from what they say exactly what they mean to say. And, surprising or not, they don't get into trouble. They can cuss like a sailor among their older sister's friends and they can conduct themselves like proper ladies among more refined company.

My objective is not to mould and chissle them into acceptablly compliant social units. My objective is to help them figure out as much as they can about how the world really works and how to fend for themselves before they take off and quit asking for my help so much.

And I think that's the same objective as the psyche profession. Of course, I won't have the credibility to say so and expect them to listen till I'm at least 65, social order being what it is. [cackle]

No laws, however stringent, can make the idle industrious, the thriftless provident, or the drunken sober
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Offline kaydeejaded

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Does it get any more obvious than this???
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2003, 02:22:00 AM »
1. ANON, (not ment mean or sarcastic but.... are you young, or a parent of a kid or something?)

We are 20 30 40 ect years later. We are the long term effects myself has been technically free of the program since 91 put into the place in 89, I am 28yrs old. Do you think I want to still think about this place? 14yrs later? No I really don't. Do you think these people do either?
      This is the long term the shit did not work.

2. Therapy??? straight was not trying to help us.
   They weren't, they did not follow any
   of the basics  the "hieracrchy of skills    
   essential to help a "client".
 
Establish rapport? Put client at ease?

hmmm maybe they thought that part said slam client on floor, they thought the floor and not wearing shoes was more comfy?

Human services is my degree, If I can make it all they way I would love to get a law degree and work for the rights of children, money is not my thing. Nice but the past has made me equate money will evil and corruption. I want to push through legislation for childrens rights and limitations on the control treatment programs can have on children it scares me even more that so many are in such remote islands.

I dunno about the law thing but I am almost done with the Sociology and Social Work degree. My advisor tried to get me to do the chemical dependency thing    because of my unusual knowledge of the PROGRAM
      how many regular people know the "real" meaning of FINE

but I cannot do it it makes me ill.

3. Ginger I am lucky, I love my headshrinker, a wonderful free thinking Nadar voting Utne reading meditating godsend, who finally allowed me to be pissed off and did not tell me to get over the shit. Sammie found the same thing it is amazing what that will do.

Ramble ramble, I am sad tonight. Lonely. Worried.

And... The marine ball is coming up and I better start scraping all those political bumber stickers off my car.

 

A Freudian slip is when you say one thing but mean your mother.

--Anonymous

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or those who understand, no explanation is necessary; for those who don\'t, none will do

Offline Antigen

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Does it get any more obvious than this???
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2003, 02:57:00 AM »
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On 2003-10-16 23:22:00, kaydeejaded wrote:

"Nice but the past has made me equate money will evil and corruption."


Free yourself! Seriously.

Go back to thinking the way you did when you were young and innocent and 5 pennies was a fair trade for a bite of a friend's candy bar or a good-as-you-could sidewalk sweeping. Money is nothing but a marker for goods and services. It's purely honest to trade goods and services voluntarily. It's purely evile to take them by force or fraud.

Most of our money (yes, ours! the markers that would be worthless if we all didn't provide goods and services to give them meaning and value) change hands by force or fraud. Half go to taxes (force) or mandated spending, like vehicle safety features that you wouldn't voluntarily choose over 40MPG or inflated insureance fees to cover forced drug treatment. Plenty more goes to fraud of various stripe (eat Prozac, and it'll make the fucked up world seem really rather nice!).

That's evil. But it's not the money that's evil. It's the method of exchange. May you become wealthy beyond your hopes purely by trying your own standards and ethics.

I've known a couple of really decent head shrinkers too. Don't know how they voted, though. I just answered their phones when they went home for the day. All I really knew was how much they cared about checking their messages, whether or not they called back and whether or not their patients trusted them.

The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty bound to do his share in this defense are constitutional rights secure.
-- Albert Einstein



_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
American drug war P.O.W.
   10/80 - 10/82
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
Anonymity Anonymous
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes