PURE, can you make my kid love me again?

[Anonymous]

Is there some sort of "SHAME" in being a PURE volunteer?  I am proud to share that I am a VOLUNTEER for several organizations.  I assist in any way I can for the GOOD of those organizations and have never once slammed another similar organization.  What I read here, there may, in fact, be some hidden agenda and shame in admitting being a PURE volunteer??

[Antigen]

On 2003-10-16 13:23:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Is there some sort of "SHAME" in being a PURE volunteer?  I am proud to share that I am a VOLUNTEER for several organizations.  I assist in any way I can for the GOOD of those organizations and have never once slammed another similar organization.  What I read here, there may, in fact, be some hidden agenda and shame in admitting being a PURE volunteer??"

No, but there's shame in duplicity and in stupidity. When I ask you specific questions about PURE, you claim to know nothing about them; "not an expert", you say. If this is a true statement, then you must be dumber than paint to allow them to use your name on their website. But I suspect this is just not ture. You know the answers to my questions. You just don't want to say.

Which brings us to duplicity. You didn't volunteer the information that you're a PURE volunteer. In fact, when Carey mentioned that you're affiliated with PURE, you came back almost immediately with a rather hostile and indignant skreed, accusing her of lying about your working for PURE and stating that neither you nor your wife have ever represented PURE. Then you tell me you're not a lawyer, in between boasting about 'saving the life' of another kid, who's parents called you after getting your number from PURE.

So now that we've established that you do, indeed, work for PURE in a voluntary capacity similar to that of a volunteer toy drive or whatever, I suppose we're ready to learn and new and interesting definition of the term (of art?) "represent".

But of course, if you're tired of attacking Carey, I suppose you'll want to go over to Marti's forum where you can attacker her without being challenged.

Have lots of good fun!

Whenever the General Government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force.
http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=FF7485&aid=10247' target='_new'>Thomas Jefferson: Kentucky Resolutions, 1798

[Carey]

Anon you said:

Is there some sort of "SHAME" in being a PURE volunteer? I am proud to share that I am a VOLUNTEER for several organizations. I assist in any way I can for the GOOD of those organizations and have never once slammed another similar organization. What I read here, there may, in fact, be some hidden agenda and shame in admitting being a PURE volunteer??

What, you are so proud you forgot to say who you are.  Seems to me the Anon post means your ashamed...don't want anyone to know.... ::bigsmilebounce::

[Anonymous]

Carey and Ginger:  I wrote that, not Lee.  I am not affiliated with PURE in any way   :wink:

I was just saying that I AM PROUD of volunteering with several organizations.  The local National Organization of Women, a local hospital and a book club. I am on their "volunteer list" and am very proud of the difference I make.

What I see in Lee and other volunteers with PURE is that they aren't proud and seem to be ashamed to admit their role over there.

Betsy

[Antigen]

Oh, sorry. (Doh!) Thanks for clearing that up.

You have rights atecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the Universe.

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/7006/rulebook.html' target='_new'>John Adams

[turbinekat]

Ladies...I'll allow yawl to spat between the three of you on this one.

Thanks for the ownership Betsy.  I can respect someone stepping up to the plate when it is their turn.  Ain't no shame in my game, just way to MANY false accusations...thrown around by the moderator & her accomplice!

This just proves it ms. ginger...your therapy maybe all you have left.  You may want go get some real help!!!  Maybe call momma & beg for forgiveness?  Ta! Ta!

Regards,

Lee

[Anonymous]

On 2003-10-16 15:45:00, turbinekat wrote:

"Ladies...I'll allow yawl to spat between the three of you on this one.



Thanks for the ownership Betsy.  I can respect someone stepping up to the plate when it is their turn.  Ain't no shame in my game, just way to MANY false accusations...thrown around by the moderator & her accomplice!



This just proves it ms. ginger...your therapy maybe all you have left.  You may want go get some real help!!!  Maybe call momma & beg for forgiveness?  Ta! Ta!



Regards,



Lee

"

You're nuts.  Ginger's the sanest person on here, as far as I've been able to tell reading for the past handful of months.

Those of you telling each other how much they need therapy or tossing psychobabble around are the ones who come across as very "vivid."

[Anonymous]

Lee wrote:"Ain't no shame in my game, just way to MANY false accusations...thrown around by the moderator & her accomplice!"

I'm not so sure these are false accusations, but  I'm not so sure they're true accusations, either.

What I know is that the PURE website is based on bashing WWASPS.  If you read the other forums here - STRAIGHT, CEDU, etc., you'll find the same stories, different programs. I don't see any of their stories over at PURE.  

So, I've drawn my own conclusion.

One - PURE has been gaining volunteer support from ex-wwasps parents and relatives.  

Two - The purpose of the volunteer support is to add fuel to their fire by talking to parents in crisis about what NOT to do.

Three - Do they really refer to kinder, gentler behavior modification schools? Does anyone really know besides the PURE Director and her wayward staff?  IS THERE a gentler, kinder BM??

The quote "Wherever You Are Be There" comes to mind, Lee.  You're either in it 100% or your not.  If you are, then be proud of it.  If not, you may want to take your volunteering to someplace else where you have a "warm and fuzzy" about helping with their purpose.

The purpose of PURE, from reading their site, is very much against what feels good for me.  Someone might get it that if they changed their site to stand on their own merit, it could benefit more than creating fear in parents in crisis.

Lee, and the other volunteers may well be assisting in creating even more fear and confusion for those parents.   :scared:

And you guys talk about how Teen Help creates fear!  They don't even begin to close in on this, from everything I know.

[Antigen]

In my view, when your kid is as tall as you are and doesn't care for your advice or direction, they don't need it. The accusation "you can't control your kid" is based on the false premis that the grown folk who our society, in the last hundred years or so, have come to define as "kids", need to be controled by a handler.

They don't need to be "controled". I think if you're both conciencous and fortunate, your kids will voluntarily adopt enough of your culture and ethics to never come into major conflict with you. But some kids are explorers and some kids have idiots or assholes for parents. Either way, it's a mystery to us old folks. They have to figure it out for themselves.

PURE and WWASP share that same basic premis that, if you're worried about your kid, you must do something to stop them from doing whatever it is they're doing to figure it out for themselves, even if it involves hiring off duty SWAT team members to take them by force, without a trial or the right to face their accuser.

That's where I have a problem with both of them. That and that all too familiar cultic habit of demonising and smearing all critics.

I don't think PURE is creating unfounded fear. As hard as some of this stuff is to accepte, given my experience in a synanon, it's not the least bit implausable or even surprising. I just think it's a case of the pot calling the kettle black and believing it.

America when will you be angelic
When will you take off your clothes....
America after all it is you and I who are perfect
Not the next world.
--Allen Ginsberg

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
American drug war P.O.W.
   10/80 - 10/82
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
Anonymity Anonymous

[Paul St. John]

I think the problem really comes when
people begin to look at their children as problems to be solved.  This is an entirely unnatural view, and usually stems down to a lot of selfishness rooted from insecurity in the parent, or just miseducation and shityy paradigms.


People are human beings.  They need to be nurtured, and they need to be accepted.
As soon as they are looked at as problems to be solved, we have lost touch with our humanity and we are in some dangerous waters.

A person is not an equation..

I am sure that there are actually people out there who look for the RIGHT PROGRAM for their kid.  There is an assumption there, that the child needs a program in the first place.  Where did this idea come from?


"Well, Billy has problems!  He needs something!  Nothing we have done has helped him!  We have had the minister talk to him.  We ve done this and that!  He s unresponsive.  He doesn t listem to people anymore.  What else can I do?"

I say that you could leave the poor kid alone, and just see what happens..

First thing you might not wnat to do, is force him to leave his own family and go elsewhere.

Accepting children for who they are, I think is the best that you can do for them.  Have a sense of humor about life.  Let a kid fuck up from time to time.. Let them explore and find out who they are.


For every adult who attributes in a touching story how some program made him/her so much better off today, there s another kid whose parent's let him live life proving how great life really can be!

Paul

[Paul St. John]

Children who will not break today,
may very well be the heors of tomorrow.



Imagine if Einstein was sent to such a program.

What a loss we would all be at, that all his contributios were never given to the world, but rather Eintein grew up to be a man talking about bullshit terms, and rationalising, and life skills, and how some program saved his life, or how he handed himself over to some higher power.


I say " what a loss we would all be out", but if I may be so bold..

More importantly, is what a loss for him!


It's the people who have handed themselves over to higher pwers who make the most difference in the world.


In this society, there is a lot of pressure, on parents to make sure that there kids " fit in", or else the parent is said to be a bad parent or perhaps, they will reflect negatively upon the parent in some other way.


The real question is when narrowed down to essence...


Is can we be enough of heros for our kids..

Can we brave enough for them..

To let them find that in themselves?



My kid came up with the equation: E=MC2

My kid recites: " what goes around comes around"


What a fucking difference.


Yeah.. there s definatly a lot of pressure to make our kids fit in or appear normal.


When you allow yourself to know of, and accept that that pressure is there, but not give into it, and continue to maintain course, driven by your own convictions, desires, inner musci, etc.

You shine like the proverbial pot of gold.
Your children will learn to do the same.
What better can you give them?

[Paul St. John]

It's the people who have *NOT* handed themselves over to higher pwers who make the most difference in the world.

[Antigen]

On 2003-10-16 23:03:00, Paul St. John wrote:

"For every adult who attributes in a touching story how some program made him/her so much better off today, there s another kid whose parent's let him live life proving how great life really can be!"

Yeah. They just tend not to be the type to complain and panic so much. I've talked to some of those who got reeled in just as far as their first WWASP interview, followed a gut feeling and checked the crentials of the "eductaion consultant", found they had a bachelors in sales and said "Fuck this!"

It's refreshing and reasuring. So, if anyone who stumbles accross this forum feels the need to jump in and tell us that we're all idiots and psychopaths right about now, I won't take it the wrong way.  :em:

The fatal pedagogical error is to throw answers, like stones, at the heads of those who have not yet asked the questions.

                               
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%22Paul+Tillich%22&btnG=Google+Search' target='_new'>Paul Tillich

[Antigen]

On 2003-10-16 23:18:00, Paul St. John wrote:

Yeah.. there s definatly a lot of pressure to make our kids fit in or appear normal.

Yeah, but it's not all, probably not even so much, about making the parents look good. It's about fear. And it's about that dear old friend, our high tolerance for congnative dissonance.

A lot of parents ride herd on their kids more than their heart and gut tell them to because they're afraid of what we'll do to them if they let them just be natural kids. But, in order to groom the kids to not be that nail that sticks out and gets the hammer, they have to teach them to conform to unnatural limits. In the course of doing so, they can't disrespect those limits. They're trying to teach the kids to honor and never question those limits, after all, so they don't get nailed for colouring out of the lines. They can't divulge the simple rule, because it's not an honorable rule.

It's a real catch 22. And if you get into fractals, take a close look at PURE and how they evolved. These seem to be the parents of those kids who spotted and could not unsee that spark of individuality in their parents and would not conform to the cover story. But they don't want the kids to suffer the consequences for it. But they have to become the draggon. But they're not. But they are...

Totalism is madening! Crazymaking! The high irony seems to be that people who most crave spiritualism and are least able to find it are the ones most likely to fall into the trap.

What experiences and history teach is this-that people and government never have learned anything from history, or acted on principles deduced from it.

--G.W.F Hegel (1770-1831)

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
American drug war P.O.W.
   10/80 - 10/82
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
Anonymity Anonymous

[Carey]

Ginger, your orignal post on this thread is a letter from PURE.  Did you go on line on the PURE website and fill in the survey and submit it.  Then the remainder is a letter from PURE in which they responded to your post?  Did they ever give you any names of any of the programs that they "recommend?"