Idea for Carey

[Anonymous]

How about asking your boys about how they feel about your sharing with WWASP attorneys?

Would they want any of their friends sent away to WWASP?

Your boys are out - do you care about the ones left behind?

what if your actions caused some who may desperately want out to have to stay- maybe years- would that bother you?

[Carey]

Idea for Anon.....

How about EVERYBODY share EVERYTHING they know and have?  We can bring to the  table all information, all contacts, all pictures, reports, you know, everything that has anything to do with the industry.  Then parents, programs, government agencies and all others who make decisions for these teens will be able to determine what the truth really is.  We can then try and sort out the reality from the imaginary.  Maybe court is the only way in which all will come to light.  

One more thing, for those who have read the thread in which the first 5 digits of my social security number was given, it was the correct 5 digits.  The only person who I have given that number to who has anything to do with what has taken place over the past year was Steve Bozak, Sue Scheff's friend.  What does that tell me?  It tells me alot.   What does it tell you? I don't know.  One more thing in that thread, there seems to be a threat given which made reference to ISAC investigating me.  What does that tell me?  Alot.  What does that tell you?  I don't know.  ISAC may have removed Sue's link from their site, but have they remained in contact?  I don't know.  Maybe.  I am sure phone records may be able to tell us the answer to that question.

I do not take to being bullied people.  Dundee tried to bully me and make me complaisant.  What did that tell me?  That told me they had something to hide. What does that tell you?  I don't know.

[Anonymous]

some good ideas but it's where you share it all that's important and actually it's been done but in the offices of those that have an ability to change/influence public policy and encourage regulations, controls, and insist on using the protections we already have to ensure that teens are not subject to practices that may damage them.

That's not on WWASP's agenda that I've seen.

It is also not on the agenda of the associations of educational consultants. They've continued to prefer self regulation which IMO hasn't been working so great - so sharing with those groups I would not do.

How is sharing with WWASP helping to further regulate this industry? and how is helping to ensure that children do not experience what your boys did?

[Carey]

some good ideas but it's where you share it all that's important

Share it with everyone.  No one group of people should determine who information is to be shared with.

How is sharing with WWASP helping to further regulate this industry? and how is helping to ensure that children do not experience what your boys did?

Once again, it is ultimately the parents responsibility.  They can start by going through the "healing process" / "treatment process"  with their kids, not separtate and not miles apart.

[Anonymous]

Carey,

Information was shared with you. More than once. Apparently ou have choosen to give it to WWASP and their attorneys.

You have proven yourself to be untrustworthy,selfserving,down rigth dangerousto the bigger cause. It appears in your need for reconition you have no boundaries.

Correct me if I am wrong in stating you gave confidential information to WWASP's attorneys.

[Anonymous]

The problem with "it's all up to the parents" ..

is parents don't always make the best decisions for their children...that's why every state has child abuse laws.

if you're for a "buyer beware" market- that's what we already have.

it's the kids that are the losers. Without strong advocates they are lost and with out new regulations and standards it can be dangerous for some....

[Carey]

The problem with "it's all up to the parents" ..

Who said its all up to the parents? I said somewhere on another thead parents should be the first line of defense.

[Anonymous]

you wrote that it's ultimately the parents responsibility ...I re- phrased it to say...it's up to the parents...

[Carey]

It is ultimately the parents responsibility.  Parents are the ones who make the final decision.  Unless of course a child is court appointed.

[Anonymous]

I am not sure what Carey is trying to say or prove in making any connection with ISAC and Sue Scheff.  Last I heard, we had the freedom to associate with anyone.  To make a business connection because they may write or telephone, is an assumption.  And with what right would any body have to check their phone records to see if they talk to each other.  This is not the issue.  The issue is Carey giving information to WWASP.  From what I have been told, Carey went to Sue for help.  Sue, certainly did not solict Carey.  Now payback is lets hang all the people that helped Carey in her need.  Sue, Lee and Nancy or anyone else that Carey is bashing went to Carey.  She went to them for help.  They helped her through a difficult time and because there were disagreements, Carey has made it a personl crusade to hang all of the people who helped her.  That is evil.  I do agree to turn over records to the appropriate people, police attorneys, etc not WWASP.  This was confidential information that Carey requested and then used against the people who helped her.  I know, I was there.

[Antigen]

On 2003-10-15 11:03:00, Anonymous wrote:

"The problem with "it's all up to the parents" ..



is parents don't always make the best decisions for their children...that's why every state has child abuse laws.

And we all know how wonderfully that has worked out!

Seriously, folks. When you see the light at the end of the tunnle, listen for a train whistle!

if you're for a "buyer beware" market- that's what we already have.

No it's not. What we have now is liberty and justice to the highest bidder. Tell me if the following is not true, to the best of your knowledge.

If a kid manages to escape through a window or sneak out in the night, whether they're in SLC, Utah or somewhere in Jamaica, can he or she just walk up to officer friendly, tell them their story and expect to get protection? Hell no! Officer friendly is going to abide by the laws and regulations governing minor children in the custody of a school or treatment facility. He's not going to help the kid, he's going to take the kid, by force if need be, directly back to his abusers then go home and swig a few beers and try to forget the troubles of the day.

OTOH, when some sadistic lunatic who happens to be affiliated with some powerful Mormons in Utah has a problem with, in his view, misguided worries over how the kids in his facility are treated, can he just go to those same authorities, maybe remind them how much cash he provides to their favorite cause or lobby and get them to sweep it all under the rug? Why yes! Yes he can! In fact, it happens again and again and again.

http://fornits.com/anonanon/articles/20 ... 0526-7.htm

it's the kids that are the losers. Without strong advocates they are lost and with out new regulations and standards it can be dangerous for some...."

New regulations and standards are only going to create an even better smoke screen for these people to hide behind.

People like to think that it's just the money. It's not. A fool and his money are soon parted, it's true. But just because these people are certifiable nut cases doesn't mean they're dumb. It's what they do with the money. They invest it in public policy. And it comes back to them many times over.

If you want to do something in the public sector to help these kids, see if you can eliminate funding and mandates for the piss tests that are so often used to provide the indictments to hold over the kids' heads. Eliminate the Anonymity Anonymous

[Antigen]

On 2003-10-15 11:40:00, Carey wrote:

"It is ultimately the parents responsibility.  Parents are the ones who make the final decision.  Unless of course a child is court appointed."

Yes, this is very, very true. HOWEVER, people don't come to the decision to hire professional kidnappers to deliver their kids to private prisons on remote islands in a vacume. How many times have we heard "But he was getting arrested!" or "He's diagnosed ADHD and he was selling his meds!" or "But ....." whatever other messed up things the adults in the kid's life might have done to him.

I've heard many, many times of parents placing their kids in these gulags to avoid what they thought would be a worse situation in juvenile detention.

Don't take my word on this. Look into it yourself. If you check and see who is lobbying the hardest for all this "prison without walls" legislation regarding kids, you'll find out where your retirement fund is really gowing.

It really is as simple as two questions; who's fuckin' who and where'd the money go?

Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism--how passionately I hate them!
--Albert Einstein

[Antigen]

On 2003-10-15 13:02:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I do agree to turn over records to the appropriate people, police attorneys, etc not WWASP.  This was confidential information that Carey requested and then used against the people who helped her.  I know, I was there."

Well, if we're talking discovery material, then WWASP lawyers would be the apropriate authorities. Ask Lee.

But I still don't know what highly sensitive, personal meterial we're talking about. Are we talking about customer contact lists? Cause I've still seen no evidence to support the notion that what PURE is doing is any better or significantly different than what WWASP is doing. Like I said long ago, Hitler hated Stalin, Stalin hated Hitler. They both tried to drive out or kill every Jew they could. Six of these, half dozen of the other.

It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.
http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=FF7485&aid=10247' target='_new'>Thomas Jefferson

[Grams]

Ginger, what are you missing?  This has nothing to do with PURE or Sue Scheff.  If you want to defend Carey, ask her what she gave WWASP.I don't, nor have the Colburns ever worked for PURE or Sue.  Because we posted on her site, does not mean we are on her payroll.  I am posting right here, am I on your payroll?  That is a ridiculous assumption.  Carey went to Sue and ask for help, at that point, we all tried to help her.  Confidential information (not PURE's info).  Just our experiences and positions on children's abuse going on.  I don't know any negative info on PURE to share with anyone. If you are a survivor, you know how they operate.  Our opinions of WWASP or Straight are our opinions and not to be shared with WWASP, so they can try to tie up everyone in a court battle for slander.  Its our experiences and opinions.  I wish you had been around when Carey was begging all of us to help her and we were there for her, only to be stabbed in the back afterwards.  In your opinion, is this right?

[Anonymous]

Let me introduce to you Blanche aka Grams.

She claims to never have worked for PURE.

Work doesn't always get compensation.
I remember emailing Sue off her site and to my surpise - you replied.  This would be considered work to some.  Your first email contained info that I shouldn't go to wwasp because they stole your grand-daughter.  You seem to be an expert on the WWASP abuse going on at CrossCreek, but that's pretty hard to see when you're in FUCKING TEXAS! If my grandchild was kidnapped I'd camp out in front of that place with cement shoes.  Obviously you didn't think there was that much abuse or you don't think that highly of your grand-daughter.

Here is the problem you people don't get (in my opinion) -

You love to bitch about Carey - Love to bitch about just about anything.  

I don't think the solution here is shutting down these places - More regulation is the answer.  
The parents in need aren't going to go away - We are living in weird world with kids and parents messing up.
Just because tupperware warps in the dishwasher doesn't mean I want to put them all out of business - I want them to improve the product.

If you want to help kids - Get on the phone to your local reps to start legislation that will put more rules.

The places you PURE people refer to don't have any more rules on them than WWASP.

- This one's for Lee -

Just my POV