Author Topic: APA Task Force Report: ENCOUNTER GROUPS AND PSYCHIATRY  (Read 5075 times)

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Offline Whooter

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Re: APA Task Force Report: ENCOUNTER GROUPS AND PSYCHIATRY
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2010, 08:48:03 AM »
Quote from: "none-ya"

http://www.eatabagofdicks.com/


Why is it that my responses are just moved at will. I am simply commenting on what I read here.Curiosity over the origin of the phrase, nothing more. Seems things have been a little slow around here lately,and administrator needs something to do. well here is some more

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... of%20dicks

It was running off topic I believe.  I took a look around and the saying originated in Seattle:

Literally, to consume a bag full of food from Dick's Drive In, usually 5 fries to one burger.

People like myself out here in the east would not understand the saying.

They sell mugs, hats and T-shirts to promote their food.  So this makes more sense, that was a very strange saying without any link.  Some may take it as Gummi worms but I think that is a stretch.  

Link



...
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Offline none-ya

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Re: APA Task Force Report: ENCOUNTER GROUPS AND PSYCHIATRY
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2010, 08:57:51 AM »
We had best be careful, such talk could get us banned.
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?©?Ä~•@

Offline Samara

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Re: APA Task Force Report: ENCOUNTER GROUPS AND PSYCHIATRY
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2010, 12:09:51 PM »
So bags of dicks aside, I know of two people who went to EST outside of CEDU. One was "trying to find himself." He ended up losing a lot of friends and his very smart, accomplished, beautiful girlfriend in an effort to recruit them to EST. This was in the 80s. 2o years later, the gf (a family friend) ran into him and he was very disenchanted with this time period and his alienating attempt to recruit people and marginalize freinds who didn't join up. Another lady I knew who did EST was trying to shkae something loose after her divorce. I don't remember much except that she said it was a waste of money.

CEDU, however, was chock full of Lifespring staff. What they took as "empowering" was really a superior sense of false enlightenment that they used to justify mindfucking youths. So, yeah, I ahven't really heard of any one Eureka story born out of Lifespring.
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Offline Awake

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Re: APA Task Force Report: ENCOUNTER GROUPS AND PSYCHIATRY
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2010, 01:33:12 PM »
When it comes down to it there is little likelihood that these encounter groups can be trusted to function for the benefit of the individual, but is truly made to fortify the attitudes of the group, and in this format the group leader has the ultimate control of the expressed attitudes of the participants. That is the original intent behind this kind of group dynamic. History would suggest that one should be wary that of the many  forms encounter groups are packaged in, all of them have equal potential to make use of the coercive tactics that it originally evolved from. Here is a chronological history of development of the basic encounter group.

1946-1947: The National Training Laboratories at Bethel, Maine, began their community development conferences, which later evolved into the T-group and then the encounter group. Several of the leaders had been students of Kurt Lewin and J. L. Moreno. The key figures were Ronald Lippitt, Kenneth Benne, Leland Bradford, and Jack Gibb (Gottschalk & Pattison, 1969; Lippitt, Bradford, & Benne, 1947).

1949-1955: Maxwell Jones developed the concept of the '`therapeutic community" at the Social Rehabilitation Unit (later renamed Henderson Hospital) of the Belmont Hospital in Sutton, England. Around that time, Paul Sivadon in France pioneered the idea of open (unlocked) wards.

1950-1960: Expansion of group psychotherapy, especially by such leaders as Martin Grotjahn, Hyman Spotnitz, Jerome Frank, Florence Powdermaker, Clifford Sager, Helen Papanek, Max Rosenbaum, Helen Durkin, and many others. Children were treated in groups by Haim Ginott, Gisela Konopka, Fritz Redl, and others.

1955-1959: Sensitivity training, an extension of T-group ideas, was being explored at the UCLA School of Business Administration in California and in other locations as part of the expansion of the National Training Laboratories.

The Period of Innovation

1958-1966: Frederick (Fritz) Perls, Laura Perls, Paul Goodman, Ralph Hefferline, and others developed Gestalt therapy in New York; it became popular after Fritz Perls moved to the Esalen Institute in California around 1966.

1963-1966: Marathon (time-extended) group therapy (mainly for personal growth); Frederick Stoller, George Bach, Elizabeth Mintz.

1963-1966: Eric Berne developed his method of Transactional Analysis.

1963-1966: Michael Murphy and Richard Price organized Esalen Institute just south of Big Sur, California. It was the prototype of the "growth center," and hundreds sprouted up around the country (and some overseas) over the next decade. These centers became the focus of the human potential movement, which was a marriage of humanistic psychology and T-group methods.

1967: Will Schutz, at Esalen, combined many modes of therapy with the process of the basic encounter group psychodrama, bioenergetic analysis, sensory awakening, guided fantasy, and a variety of action techniques, many of which were ultimately based on Moreno's methods.

1967: Synanon "games" opened to the public as a form of encounter group in Santa Monica, a seaside suburb on the west side of Los Angeles. Synanon was started in 1958 as a drug abuse treatment center by Charles Diedrich. These games were just short of being violently confrontational, and some of this approach generalized to contaminate parts of the encounter group movement.


Ref: http://www.blatner.com/adam/pdntbk/hxgrprx.htm (full list edited)
Iíd also suggest this useful for evaluating the risks of encounter groups viewtopic.php?f=81&t=31447

Quote from: "Samara"
When I was at CEDU, we were forced into encounter groups led by indoctrinated adults... to participate in psychodramas that had nothing to do with our own personal trajectories. It was scripted, it was coerced, it was artificial, it was brutal, and it engendered a false sense of enlightenment that tragically prodded us AWAY from our authentic selves.


I can think of many places "smoke and mirrors" belong - but not in a "therapeutic" setting.

:nods:    :waaaa:
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Offline Whooter

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Re: APA Task Force Report: ENCOUNTER GROUPS AND PSYCHIATRY
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2010, 01:40:10 PM »
Quote from: "Samara"
So bags of dicks aside, I know of two people who went to EST outside of CEDU. One was "trying to find himself." He ended up losing a lot of friends and his very smart, accomplished, beautiful girlfriend in an effort to recruit them to EST. This was in the 80s. 2o years later, the gf (a family friend) ran into him and he was very disenchanted with this time period and his alienating attempt to recruit people and marginalize freinds who didn't join up. Another lady I knew who did EST was trying to shkae something loose after her divorce. I don't remember much except that she said it was a waste of money.

CEDU, however, was chock full of Lifespring staff. What they took as "empowering" was really a superior sense of false enlightenment that they used to justify mindfucking youths. So, yeah, I ahven't really heard of any one Eureka story born out of Lifespring.

There were lots of people who really got into the whole EST thing when I was young.  Some (like your friend) joined up because it was so life changing for them and inspirational.  Others like my wife was merely inspirational.   But the feelings were short lived mostly not very unlike smoking some dynamite weed and all of a sudden being inspired to write poetry or become a painter.  I think there was a very small percentage of people who benefited long term in that it changed their direction in life.



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Offline psy

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Re: APA Task Force Report: ENCOUNTER GROUPS AND PSYCHIATRY
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2010, 02:19:59 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
I think there was a very small percentage of people who benefited long term in that it changed their direction in life.

So you admit the encounter group methods used by programs only changes most people temporarily?  Would you aslo admit that these confrontational techniques can cause harm in a number of people, especially when combined with other elements of program thought reform?

See.  The issue with encounter groups and attack therapy is that it is only appropriate, if at all, for a very small number of people.  Mostly those who have already established a strong core identity, who can stand up for themselves, and who can leave if it gets too much for them.  None of these things apply in most programs where these encounter groups are central to the program (raps or group are normally a daily occurrence).  I've personally seen a guy totally freak out in an LGAT and i've seen many utterly decimated by constant attacks in encounter groups -- to the point where they were basically dead inside and had no will of their own left to resist.

Sometimes the encounter groups were more moderate and it was just a circle of chairs discussing and attacking and just random stuff but if staff felt it necessary, if for some reason they thought you weren't "real" enough, or if you did something against the every changing, subjective and arbitrary rules, they would put you in the center of the room and that circle of chairs would become a 360 degree verbal firing squad.  It would not stop until either the time ran out or they felt you were sufficiently changed or repentant or whatever the particular goal was.  If you managed to outlast the time, they would bring you in the next day and the process would start all over again, meanwhile you would be on "bans" so you weren't allowed to talk to anybody or decompress (not that there was anybody you could trust to talk to anyway).

These techinques may not harm some people, but I have seriously doubts that they help anybody and I know from personal experience that they harm a lot of the kids that these programs claim to serve (aspergers, anxiety attacks, depression, etc).  They're simply not appropriate and the "one size fits all" approach most programs do harm many kids (even if they "claim" to provide "individuals educational plans" or some bullshit like that).  This isn't to imply that the techniques are appropriate for anybody, mind you, just that for some people they are more harmful than others.
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Offline heretik

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Re: APA Task Force Report: ENCOUNTER GROUPS AND PSYCHIATRY
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2010, 03:27:29 PM »
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Whooter"
I think there was a very small percentage of people who benefited long term in that it changed their direction in life.

So you admit the encounter group methods used by programs only changes most people temporarily?  Would you aslo admit that these confrontational techniques can cause harm in a number of people, especially when combined with other elements of program thought reform?

See.  The issue with encounter groups and attack therapy is that it is only appropriate, if at all, for a very small number of people.  Mostly those who have already established a strong core identity, who can stand up for themselves, and who can leave if it gets too much for them.  None of these things apply in most programs where these encounter groups are central to the program (raps or group are normally a daily occurrence).  I've personally seen a guy totally freak out in an LGAT and i've seen many utterly decimated by constant attacks in encounter groups -- to the point where they were basically dead inside and had no will of their own left to resist.

Sometimes the encounter groups were more moderate and it was just a circle of chairs discussing and attacking and just random stuff but if staff felt it necessary, if for some reason they thought you weren't "real" enough, or if you did something against the every changing, subjective and arbitrary rules, they would put you in the center of the room and that circle of chairs would become a 360 degree verbal firing squad.  It would not stop until either the time ran out or they felt you were sufficiently changed or repentant or whatever the particular goal was.  If you managed to outlast the time, they would bring you in the next day and the process would start all over again, meanwhile you would be on "bans" so you weren't allowed to talk to anybody or decompress (not that there was anybody you could trust to talk to anyway).

These techinques may not harm some people, but I have seriously doubts that they help anybody and I know from personal experience that they harm a lot of the kids that these programs claim to serve (aspergers, anxiety attacks, depression, etc).  They're simply not appropriate and the "one size fits all" approach most programs do harm many kids (even if they "claim" to provide "individuals educational plans" or some bullshit like that).  This isn't to imply that the techniques are appropriate for anybody, mind you, just that for some people they are more harmful than others.



Psy,
Two sets of circumstances, one group (whooter is talking about) comes to the table willingly seeking knowledge or just a experience, the group (you are referring to (kids in a program)) are forced to the table and punished with the identical experiential tool. Unbelievable.
There is no wiggle room here at all the "encounter groups" being used (from what I have read) in programs can only produce negative results. This is putting it kindly.
Whooter, are you getting this or are you still wanting to compare to the 70's when your wife was experimenting.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: APA Task Force Report: ENCOUNTER GROUPS AND PSYCHIATRY
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2010, 03:51:57 PM »
Quote from: "heretik"



Psy,
Two sets of circumstances, one group (whooter is talking about) comes to the table willingly seeking knowledge or just a experience, the group (you are referring to (kids in a program)) are forced to the table and punished with the identical experiential tool. Unbelievable.
There is no wiggle room here at all the "encounter groups" being used (from what I have read) in programs can only produce negative results. This is putting it kindly.
Whooter, are you getting this or are you still wanting to compare to the 70's when your wife was experimenting.

I see your point on the differences and about going into it willingly.  But we also need to realize that encounter groups can vary vastly from one model to the next ranging from 90 minutes to several days.  People with a psychosis of some type could be damaged by the process as well as aspergers (in my opinion).



...
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Offline Awake

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Re: APA Task Force Report: ENCOUNTER GROUPS AND PSYCHIATRY
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2010, 06:24:07 PM »
Ö and we shouldn't discount the widespread proliferation of sensitivity training, or encounter groups, being due to selling the, supposed, keys to unlocking peoples unlimited human potential ( the Human Potential Movement),  the cover under which many modern encounter sessions operate under (est and lifespring among the most popular).


Ö Are you living up to your full potential? I donít think so. But you are accountable for that, no one else. What is stopping you from being the best you you can be? What is keeping you from being the life of the party? What about you is stopping you from getting the wealth you deserve? Are you one of those people that isnít having great sex?!!

 
The only thing keeping you from getting those things is that you donít believe in yourself enough to get what you want! But you know what, you ARE good enough and you CAN do it. Itís clear your family and friends are not supporting you, and you are not supporting them. Make the commitment for yourself, and your relationships, to come to my seminar and get the life you REALLY want! (You know who you are)Ö -- MindLifeDynamaSpringEstEncounereminarsTraining--- Making you real again.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: APA Task Force Report: ENCOUNTER GROUPS AND PSYCHIATRY
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2010, 06:59:53 PM »
Quote from: "Awake"
Ö and we shouldn't discount the widespread proliferation of sensitivity training, or encounter groups, being due to selling the, supposed, keys to unlocking peoples unlimited human potential ( the Human Potential Movement),  the cover under which many modern encounter sessions operate under (est and lifespring among the most popular).


Ö Are you living up to your full potential? I donít think so. But you are accountable for that, no one else. What is stopping you from being the best you you can be? What is keeping you from being the life of the party? What about you is stopping you from getting the wealth you deserve? Are you one of those people that isnít having great sex?!!

 
The only thing keeping you from getting those things is that you donít believe in yourself enough to get what you want! But you know what, you ARE good enough and you CAN do it. Itís clear your family and friends are not supporting you, and you are not supporting them. Make the commitment for yourself, and your relationships, to come to my seminar and get the life you REALLY want! (You know who you are)Ö -- MindLifeDynamaSpringEstEncounereminarsTraining--- Making you real again.

If anything it isnt designed to lower a persons self esteem or to be abusive it is quite the opposite.



...
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Offline Awake

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Re: APA Task Force Report: ENCOUNTER GROUPS AND PSYCHIATRY
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2010, 07:17:29 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Awake"
Ö and we shouldn't discount the widespread proliferation of sensitivity training, or encounter groups, being due to selling the, supposed, keys to unlocking peoples unlimited human potential ( the Human Potential Movement),  the cover under which many modern encounter sessions operate under (est and lifespring among the most popular).


Ö Are you living up to your full potential? I donít think so. But you are accountable for that, no one else. What is stopping you from being the best you you can be? What is keeping you from being the life of the party? What about you is stopping you from getting the wealth you deserve? Are you one of those people that isnít having great sex?!!

 
The only thing keeping you from getting those things is that you donít believe in yourself enough to get what you want! But you know what, you ARE good enough and you CAN do it. Itís clear your family and friends are not supporting you, and you are not supporting them. Make the commitment for yourself, and your relationships, to come to my seminar and get the life you REALLY want! (You know who you are)Ö -- MindLifeDynamaSpringEstEncounereminarsTraining--- Making you real again.

If anything it isnt designed to lower a persons self esteem or to be abusive it is quite the opposite.



...



What do you mean by ďitĒ exactly? The human potential movement?
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Offline Whooter

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Re: APA Task Force Report: ENCOUNTER GROUPS AND PSYCHIATRY
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2010, 07:24:04 PM »
Quote from: "Awake"



What do you mean by ďitĒ exactly? The human potential movement?

"Encounter Groups"



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Offline Awake

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Re: APA Task Force Report: ENCOUNTER GROUPS AND PSYCHIATRY
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2010, 07:37:19 PM »
Actually Encounter groups ARE designed to lower ones self esteem, or raise it. What it is not designed to do is produce zero change toward one end or the other, so in the context of force I do believe it is abusive. Encounter groups themselves have no attitude to impart. It is a tool to impart the attitude of the leader and group onto the individual. As far as the encounter group is concerned, it is the group leader who is in charge of defining what self esteem is for the others.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: APA Task Force Report: ENCOUNTER GROUPS AND PSYCHIATRY
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2010, 07:58:31 PM »
Quote from: "Awake"
Actually Encounter groups ARE designed to lower ones self esteem, or raise it. What it is not designed to do is produce zero change toward one end or the other, so in the context of force I do believe it is abusive. Encounter groups themselves have no attitude to impart. It is a tool to impart the attitude of the leader and group onto the individual. As far as the encounter group is concerned, it is the group leader who is in charge of defining what self esteem is for the others.

If they match the encounter group with ongoing therapy it can be successful producing permanent or long term positive change.  The encounter group activity on its own is not very long lasting but can produce quick break throughs that normal one-on-one therapy would take years to achieve.



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Offline psy

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Re: APA Task Force Report: ENCOUNTER GROUPS AND PSYCHIATRY
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2010, 08:17:12 PM »
Quote from: "heretik"
Psy,
Two sets of circumstances, one group (whooter is talking about) comes to the table willingly seeking knowledge or just a experience, the group (you are referring to (kids in a program)) are forced to the table and punished with the identical experiential tool. Unbelievable.
There is no wiggle room here at all the "encounter groups" being used (from what I have read) in programs can only produce negative results. This is putting it kindly.
Whooter, are you getting this or are you still wanting to compare to the 70's when your wife was experimenting.

But even a program that recruits "consensually" will not really have full consent because it's almost never informed.  Lack of informed consent through fraudulent advertisement.  It's a cult.  The idea is to take people in and keep them for as long as possible in order to make as much money as possible and then they eject them onto the streets like human garbage.  Many cults do this, many programs do this, it's really the same thing, but you're entitled to your opinion.
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