Author Topic: Vision Quest  (Read 13813 times)

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Offline Nazi

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Vision Quest
« on: October 03, 2003, 07:44:00 AM »
Vision Quest was a really bad program,I went to it in western PA for a month before goijng to Elan, Fortunately I was able to split from the place never to return.While i was there I seen staff beat the shit out of kids for not following procedures.
These assholes would make all residents live outside in tents all year round with no heat.If you were to be caught from splitting, I have seen the staff use wooden objects and beat the living shit out of kids.
I really dont remember and Staff names except for this nigger that worked there named Joe.

I hated the fuckin place and had to go to court for some thing, so they brought me back to my home time and i went to court.I first tried to get the court to pull me out of the program but was unsuccessful, after court i was able to escape staff and run.I made it to freedom.

During my stay also at VQ I was physically provoked by a staff member and he got in my face.Welll I kneed him in the balls and picked up a chair and knocked him the fuck out.I and everyone other student were cheering me on and loved what I did.I tried everything to get thrown out.I remeber carving my arm, writing satanic shit all over books, shit like that.First time i plit I hid under a shower trailor and waited for dark, The staff caught on and found me after an hour or two.It was so hard to run from there becuase they had the camp site out in the middle of a huge feild.

The woodline was very far away and it required a long run, they also take your shoe laces which made it more difficult to run.If any place should get shut down its Vision Quest.
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lan is slowly being torn apart, thanks to me and all the other former Elanites out there that beleive in the destruction of tearing Elan apart. \"Keep up the great work\"

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2003, 11:48:00 PM »
You probably provoked all of the physical provoking with your racist mouth you fucking cracker.
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Offline sammiegirl

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« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2003, 12:57:00 AM »
Quote
On 2003-10-18 20:48:00, Anonymous wrote:

"You probably provoked all of the physical provoking with your racist mouth you fucking cracker."

What is this....!!
I saw no such remarks shame on you!!! ANON

Sorry to hear about your stay at VQ will look for info on it.
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ND THE TRUTH WILL SET US FREE

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2003, 10:57:00 AM »
"I really dont remember and Staff names except for this nigger that worked there named Joe."

Well if this isn't a racial issue with this staff member or maybe it's easy for Nazi to remember the nigger.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2003, 12:13:00 PM »
Sammie, this is bleedover from the Elan site.

There's no biochemical test to distinguish the so-called manic-depressive person from the elated or despondent football fan. Nor is there any resan to assume the manic-depressive's inner experience is driven by twisted molecules while the football fan's is driven, at worst, by twisted values
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0312113668/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> Dr. Peter Breggin, Toxic Psychiatry

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2003, 02:15:00 PM »
Hello Nazi,
           I empathize with your experiences. It sounds much like another situation that occured within this beautiful country of yours. Slavery.
Wouldn't be nice if perphaps you and that NIGGER (c'mon man get a grip)Jim had sat down and discussed how you both have had similar histories of being held against your will, stripped your your ability to read and write and told that you are worthless nad dehumanized. We must be careful that after we have been oppressed that we walk away from it perphaps hurt and pissed off but also with an open mind to helping and recognizing that we are not alone in our pain. Shame on your SAMMIE and GINGER for not taking note of the obivous offensive nature of this post. I don't know what your beliefs are but nazis are not generally seen as great proponents of unity and peace. And I certainly feel like the nigger is blatently racist. I hear all of your hurt and most importantly I hear you all's stagnanting frustation of not being heard and or not being able to spread your stories. Is it possible that you get what you give to others? Your lack of compassion and empathy and moral aptitude might play a role in the your struggle to find a sympathetic ear. Don't get caught up in the bubble of your own singular hurt. Cuz an eye for an eye and we are all blind. FREE US ALL!
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2003, 02:45:00 PM »
Anon, where do you get the notion that I don't take note or offense at Nazi's blatant racist rantings? Ok, so Sammie missed that reference. I think I know her well enough that I can assure you it was an honest oversight.

Let me spell this out for you and anyone else who hasn't read or understood my position on this. I am not here to condone or condemn anyone's thoughts or way of expressing them. If anyone wants to get a load of what Nazi generally posts, just browse around the Elan forum for awhile or click on his profile and check out all of his posts. I leave it to the reader to decide for themselves what to make of it.

If you want my opinion, Ok. I think he's a friggin crack-pot. I doubt he was even at Elan, since, in a recent post, he asked who Joe Ricci was.

But maybe he's not just a crack pot. Maybe he's perfectly sane and sensible, but very, very angry. Maybe it's just a sick sense of humor. Maybe he's making the point that the Elan apologists sure can't take any of what they dish out. Maybe he's a provocateur. Hell, for all I know, maybe he's Ken Zaretski just trying to cause dissent and poison the well, so to speak, by throwing a bunch of obviously made up stories about his buddies Marty and Jeff and Claire out there to damage the credibility of those who have true, though hard to believe, stories to tell.

I'm not being fecetious, I sincerely hold all of these possabilities as plausibled. I'm also not falling for it. I'm not going to spend my time and energy arguing the obvious point that most of what Nazi posts around here is total and utter bullshit and is extremely, intentionally, inflamatory and offensive. Anyone who can't figure that out for themselves is beyond my help.

Just don't bother reading it. I generally don't.

But if anyone has any real, firsthand info on VisionQuest, good, bad or indifferent, please post it here. I certainly won't let anything said by some other individual influence my opinion of what some entirely different person has to say.

One more thing. This is to all regular readers of these forums. Is there anyone who posts here frequently who you've come to admire or who's posts you've found valuable? Check back to when they fist showed up on the scene, some of them as far back as around `98 when I first set up http://fornits.com/anonanon/sidetalk/

How useful, lively and informative do you think this forum would be today if I'd booted, censored or banned everyone I thought was hostile, offensive or off their rocker? A lot of people who come around here are upset and disturbed by the content. A lot of them blow off steam, attack each other mercilessly and generally behave badly at some point. Me too. Who am I to decide what will and will not be acceptable for you to write or for you to read or what you should make of any of it?

Where powers are assumed which have not been delegated, a nullification of the act is the rightful remedy.
http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=FF7485&aid=10247' target='_new'>Thomas Jefferson: Kentucky Resolutions, 1798

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2003, 05:59:00 PM »
Ginger:
       I am glad you recognize that that post is problematic to say the least, it is okay if you aren't ready to say sorry. So now take it down. And you are going to rebuke me by saying it goes against free speech. But, what about the black, asian, or latino person who has been in one of these programs and wants to join the forum. What if they stumble upon a post where this guy is calling people niggers and to add insult to injury a senior memeber of the forum
condones and ignores the statement when it is blasted by another post? What about their right to feel free to speak in a safe enviroment? Or it is only safe for white people like nazi et al. What if oprah (a black woman) or montel (black man) or connie chung & maury p. (Parents of black adopted child) or michael moore (married to black woman) come on your site, interested in doing a program, and see such inflammatory stuff. Your words about crackpots, being facetious or not, and SAMMIE's good heart and honest oversight of the word nigger($10 word there!) will matter little if at all. Because you as a whole are only as tight as you aren't loose.  If you think that is not possible you are selling yourselves short. And Ginger not to be rude but nobody really honestly cares about what you fall for or not I am more interested in how you ignore it and don't want to talk about it.  You blast these people who ran these camps for being self-rightous and unapologetic surely you don't want to emulate these qualities. Just think about it.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2003, 07:05:00 PM »
Quote
On 2003-10-19 14:59:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Ginger:

       I am glad you recognize that that post is problematic to say the least, it is okay if you aren't ready to say sorry.

So now take it down.

No, you still don't seem to be taking my meaning. I don't have a problem with it. And I'm quite ready to say that I am not sorry. I didn't say those things that offended you. Some guy who goes by the name Nazi did. That might have been a big tip-off as to what might follow. Maybe he's sorry. But I'm not him, nor am I his mother. You're barking up the wrong tree here.

No matter how hard you want to believe that I'm somehow responsible for what other people do and say, I am not. Read the terms of use.

As I've said before in similar situations, go panhandle somewhere else. I don't work for you. I don't owe you anything. Call me when the server crashes or something. That's my area of responsibility.

Quote
And you are going to rebuke me by saying it goes against free speech.

Once again, I'm not your mother either and so I wouldn't dream of rebuking you for anything. I would remind you, though, that you don't know me well enough to know what I might or might not find offensive. If you think you want me to go around deciding for others what they should be allowed to read or write through this open, unmoderated forum, are you absolutely sure I'd never take offense at anything you had to say?

Here's the funny part, Anon. Amost anyone you ask would agree that all of the WWF forums on various Synanon based facilities are 'anti' program. As you well know, I don't make any attempt whatsoever to control anything anyone says. I only engage in discussion and debate on an equal par with anyone else who voluntarily engages in it. If the consensus around here tends to run against the program, it's not that anyone is controling the discourse and making it so. It just is what it is, unvarnished, unmanipulated, no punches pulled.

If you take a look at the consensus on Nazi, I'm pretty sure damned near everyone agrees with you.

The really funny part of that whole back-and-forth was when the Elan apologists, after spending months condemning that kind of behavior as childish and deranged actually started logging in as various users and posting just exactly the same quality of crap about Paul.  :roll:

I think you just don't understand how freedom works. If you want to have it you have to grant it to others. As regards freedom of speech, it necessarily covers offensive speech. Why would anyone think to make a law to protect behavior that no one found particularly offensive?

Quote
But, what about the black, asian, or latino person who has been in one of these programs and wants to join the forum. What if they stumble upon a post where this guy is calling people niggers and to add insult to injury a senior memeber of the forum condones and ignores the statement when it is blasted by another post?

First, there are no senior or junior members around here. I don't claim any authority to condone or condemn anyone for anything, except hacking, flooding and spamming.

As for various people who might take offense at various ideas, well look around! I don't think there's a single post in this whole forum that wouldn't offend someone or other. That's Ken's gig over at Elanalum and Lon Woodburry's job at teenhelp.com. There is no place for that kind of behavior around here. That's how come we are able to have actual, meaningful debate about these programs.

Rather than trying to get me, the FBI, the ADL and whoever else you think you can sic on the guy like your trained guard dogs, why not ask the guy how he reconciles his vaunted ideology with opposition to Ricci's little totalist regime? Did you know that Ricci and Barker were both fascinated w/ Hitler Jugund?

Are you really so threatened by these ideas that you can't challenge them in any way but to envoke force? C'mon now! In a battle of wits, I think this guy is definitely bringing a knife to a gun fight. You can ignore him. You can challenge him. But you can't make me censor him.

Quote
What about their right to feel free to speak in a safe enviroment? Or it is only safe for white people like nazi et al.

Do you really feel unsafe posting here? I don't buy it. I think you're just pissed off. And I think you've misunderstood your rights in a profound way. You do not have a right to force me to erradicate from the world every idea that offends you.

Not long ago, you or someone who writes alot like you do, told me that you thought all Nazis should be rounded up and sent to concentration camps. In my view, that is both a frightening prospect to some young kid who's just following what his right wing family taught him and also something you have every right to say. Should I censor you so that right wing extremists will "feel safe" posting here? Or am I only supposed to censor people who offend you? Or am I supposed to ignore you and censor people who offend me? Should I ban Ken Zaretski from these forums? He damned sure offends me. Or should I just flip a coin?

Quote
What if oprah .... interested in doing a program, and see such inflammatory stuff.

I'm guessing you don't actually watch any of the programs you just mention. Every one, down to the last, has done shows promoting these boot camps and behavior mod schools.

Quote
Your words about crackpots, being facetious or not, and SAMMIE's good heart and honest oversight of the word nigger($10 word there!) will matter little if at all. Because you as a whole are only as tight as you aren't loose.  If you think that is not possible you are selling yourselves short.

It's not that I think it's not possible. Just that I think it's probably not desirable. See, it's no coincidence, to my mind, that people who believe steadfastly in rulling the media with a politically correct iron fist would so entheusiastically advocate these totalist programs. They practice and advocate essentially the same policies and methods, only with a slightly different rhetoric.

Ever see Maurey hook a 14yo little girl up to a lie detector in front of a live studio audience and then grill her on her sex life? I wonder if he or any of the audience knows that merely being asked under those conditions about having had sex with some 35 yo man will make the silly machine indicate "deception". Aside from that stage prop, it damned sure looked to me like what I saw happen so many times in group.

Quote
And Ginger not to be rude but nobody really honestly cares about what you fall for or not I am more interested in how you ignore it and don't want to talk about it.  

When have I ever declined to talk about this? I've spent hours already going back and forth with you and others, publicly and in private messages. I've gone over the allegedly frightening and intimidating posts, only to find that it's all just the huge stinking pile of obscene, offensive, juvenile locker-room humor that I thought it was to begin with. Each and every time, we come to the same conclusion. It's just not the one you wanted or expected.

Quote
You blast these people who ran these camps for being self-rightous and unapologetic surely you don't want to emulate these qualities. Just think about it."


You think about it. In the program, we were not allowed to say or hear anything unapproved by staff. If someone tried to say something staff found offensive, we were well conditioned to attack like trained dogs. This had the effect of creating the illusion that dissenting views simply didn't exist. That's just what you're doing here, only I'm not playing that game.

Once again, if you don't like what Nazi has to say, do as I do, don't waste your time reading the crap! Why would you let this guy yank your chain like this? Why do you keep making it fun and interesting for him? And what in the world gives you the idea that I'm going to spend my time monitoring each and every post to this whole forum just to make sure nothing in it offends your tender sensibilities?

I'm really done with this. Unless something happens which has not happened time and time again around here, please don't start this conversation with me again. If you do, I'll very likely just refer you back to this post.

A student burst into his office.  "Professor Stigler, I don't believe I deserve this F you've given me."  To which Stigler replied, "I agree, but unfortunately it is the lowest grade the University will allow me to award."
--Professor Stigler



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Offline Froderik

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« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2003, 10:05:00 PM »
Back in Va straight in the early 80's, if you stood up and started talking about your "past" and used the words, "A black guy/girl" you would immediately be told that you didn't need to mention what color the person was. This could really screw up a good story, lol. Fast forward to today and how the PC nazis tell us we must use the cumbersome, unnecessary and MISLEADING adjective "African American." I say fuck that, and I personally know black folks that say the same damn thing, "FUCK THAT!"  :rofl:

[ This Message was edited by: Froderik13 on 2003-10-19 19:07 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2003, 10:10:00 PM »
[/quote]

What is this....!!

I saw no such remarks shame on you!!! ANON



Sorry to hear about your stay at VQ will look for info on it."
[/quote]
   Just as I expected, no reply from SAMMIEGIRL, well I guess that she is busy with her recall. Her approach of ignoring blatant racism May be the way to go, that is if she plans to run for the republican party. Michael Moore wrote a book called "Stupid White Men" it explains a little of how George W. hijacked a large number of black votes to secure his election in 2000. I don't know it seems like an expensive process, probably a bit out of your reach. The path your on is maybe a more efficient way to exclude minorities from your movement. Wes Fager just recently posted an article on his sight talking about the Sembler Co. and how they don?t want blacks in their mall. You should check it out. Wes does a great job of researching how all of this straight stuff relates to the black community.
   Well it may be no surprise that the Sembler and Bush family have no problem discriminating minorities. Just be careful what you say SAMMIE, you might have more in common with your enemies than you thought.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2003, 10:24:00 PM »
That's it. If you can't get your way through reasoned discussion, just start throwing disparaging remarks around about everyone.

Where have I seen that tactic used before?
 :roll:

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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2003, 10:26:00 PM »
BTW, while we're purging the world of offensive thoughts, I'm having trouble deciding what to do about all the religious discussions that break out here and there in these forums. In your opinion, Anon, should I be banning all comments offensive to Christians, Mormons and Athiests too? Or only those offensive to Jewish people?

The government is much more interested in preserving the purity of its ideology than it is in allowing patients to get effective medicine.
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Offline kaydeejaded

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« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2003, 11:21:00 PM »
my God I am slow I really only just now relaized the dudes name is Nazi like Natzi or how do you spell that shit??

Duh! I am retarded

Come to NY and say the N word a couple a times I'm bored that should entertain me for about 3min while you get your ass beat and I am upstate.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed people can change the world. Indeed it is the only thing that ever has.
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or those who understand, no explanation is necessary; for those who don\'t, none will do

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2003, 11:49:00 PM »
Actually I didn?t make the other post but how would you know that? Being that I choose to remain anon, but I do hope that the other anon gets back with ya Ginger and then you all can finish your conversation, my real interest here is not to discuss what you should do about religion Ginger. Being that the issue is race here. I really just want to hear from SAMMIE to get her side of this story. Can you just overlook these kind of statements. I think this is a viable argument that needs to be addressed, what do you think about it Wes?

ANON TOO
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