PUBLIC SCHOOL ABUSE

[Whooter]

To all concerned: Abuse in the public school system is statistically non-existant when compared with abuse in teen residential treatment centers. Simply google it to find out for yourself. I will not participate in this mindless discussion. Whooters agenda here is abundantly clear for all to see. To even participate in such a ridiculous discussion is to give it some measure of credibility. Score another point for Whoot. You should be real proud of yourselves Whoot and Danny, real proud.  ::puke::

Shaggys, all I said is that you never posed a valid argument or stated why you believe programs are more abusive.   We are having a discussion.  If people could just "google it" and find out that programs are more abusive I am sure you would have provided a link to show us.  Then we could all agree with you and move on.  But that hasn't been done yet so we need to continue to hash it out with our opinions and facts, life experiences that we can provide.



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[RobertBruce]

I did, yet you couldnt respond to it.


The fact is that these staffers you claim provide more accountability and oversight are never actually monitored themselves, and whatsmore as we've shown time and time again many of them are never qualified or properly licensed.

The reason these programs avoid licensure is because they don't want oversight or transperancy. Public schools have plenty of it from multiple angles. You can't win that argument John. Public schools are safer because they have far more transperancy and oversight. Programs seek to regulate themselves and leave it at that.

[DannyB II]

I did, yet you couldnt respond to it.


The fact is that these staffers you claim provide more accountability and oversight are never actually monitored themselves, and whatsmore as we've shown time and time again many of them are never qualified or properly licensed.

The reason these programs avoid licensure is because they don't want oversight or transperancy. Public schools have plenty of it from multiple angles. You can't win that argument John. Public schools are safer because they have far more transperancy and oversight. Programs seek to regulate themselves and leave it at that.

Yes, public schools have plenty of it but as we can all see it doesn't make a difference. So please don't get to excited about your claim. We all understand that programs are not licensed and so forth some of this has to do with insurance costs and taxes. Financial expenses they would not like to pass on.
I really can not argue to muc

[RobertBruce]

I did, yet you couldnt respond to it.


The fact is that these staffers you claim provide more accountability and oversight are never actually monitored themselves, and whatsmore as we've shown time and time again many of them are never qualified or properly licensed.

The reason these programs avoid licensure is because they don't want oversight or transperancy. Public schools have plenty of it from multiple angles. You can't win that argument John. Public schools are safer because they have far more transperancy and oversight. Programs seek to regulate themselves and leave it at that.

Yes, public schools have plenty of it but as we can all see it doesn't make a difference. So please don't get to excited about your claim. We all understand that programs are not licensed and so forth some of this has to do with insurance costs and taxes. Financial expenses they would not like to pass on.
I really can not argue to muc

Really? So you think a tuition of literally thousands of dollars per month per kid on substandard living conditions, and unlicensed/unqualified hacks and the argument against proper licensure and oversight is insurance cost and taxes? So what you're saying is the the bottom line comes before safety.

I appreciate your honesty. You've proven that not only are public schools safer, but that programs care more about money than a childs safety.

[Eliscu2]

Public Schools are far and above programs for abuse. The potential for abuse from peers, older kids, teachers, bus drivers, ect is there.
For everyone who believes kids can not be censored in public schools are wrong, especially with parents that have lost trust with their kids.
Parents are much more involved with kids in programs today then when most of us here went 20-30 years ago.

So because you believe the potential for abuse is higher, not actual incidents, that in your mind means programs are safer?

You are of course ignorning the fact that no matter how much more parents are involved with kids in programs then they were in the past (they're not, youre wrong again) it doesnt change the fact that communication is always restricted whenever the programs deem it approrpriate. In public schools even if a situation arose where a school would not allow a child to use a phone for an entire school day, or go home early (impossible situation that is not going to happen) at the end of the day a child is free to go home and report to their parents any incidents that occur. Programs prefer zero oversight, and zero accountability. For that reason alone public schools are safer. They have oversight and accountability to the hilt.

OMG! Have you ever lived in a small Midwestern cornfield?  :rofl:
Oversight??? um...more like dukes of hazzard meets Hitler.
Most of the people are blood or other related in some way.
I guess it would all depend on social-economics and school redistricting too. ::evil::

[Whooter]

Licensing and oversight has proven to be ineffective in that we still see abuse occurring everywhere in our public school system.  The child who is bullying another child doesn't care if the school is licensed or not.  The thousands of people and potential predators who are exposed to these children everyday as they walk home to and from school are not effected by a school license etc, etc.

Programs literally have a closed system where the child is insulated from outside harm.  The employees are required to undergo backgound checks.  The student to staff ratio is 10 times better.  Kids are exposed to a highly structured environment which protects them better from bullying and other forms of abuse.

Any of us who read the news each day can see that our public school system is failing us as a safe place to send our children.



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[RobertBruce]

Licensing and oversight has proven to be ineffective in that we still see abuse occurring everywhere in our public school system.

Given that the percentage and liklihood of abuse is much higher in programs versus public schools it would seem to suggest you are once again wrong. Abuse from peers is going to happen on some level in any concentrated environment. It is the fact that not only is it systematic in programs, but it openly encouraged and inherent to the program itself that makes them unsafe. The fact that you claim you are seeing abuse occuring in our public schools only further proves the point. You only know about (and exaggerate) instances from public schools because they are properly licensed and oversight is rampant. It's the same reason why programs don't want the gov't, parents, or the media looking over their shoulder. It just brings to light too much truth.

The child who is bullying another child doesn't care if the school is licensed or not. The thousands of people and potential predators who are exposed to these children everyday as they walk home to and from school are not effected by a school license etc, etc.

They care when they get caught. In a closed enviornment like a program they are free to act on their insticts and abuse a child. In a public school illegal acts come to light and are dealt with. In a program they are swept under the rug. I notice you didnt address my comments regarding the fact that a child is free each day to report abuse. A kid in a program cannot.

Programs literally have a closed system where the child is insulated from outside harm. The employees are required to undergo backgound checks. The student to staff ratio is 10 times better. Kids are exposed to a highly structured environment which protects them better from bullying and other forms of abuse.

Outside harm? What about in house? I'd be interested to hear where you are getting your information regarding employees in programs being forced to undergo backround checks, and why if that's true are so many unqualified people hired? So much of the abuse comes from the staff and program structure itself. How do you shield from that in a program where they prefer zero accountability? Again John, you can't win this argument. Transparency, oversight, and accountability only lead to a safer environment for everyone involved. The fact that these programs you work for abhore it only proves that public schools are safer.

Any of us who read the news each day can see that our public school system is failing us as a safe place to send our children.

Really? Go ahead and post up the links to three articles in todays news detailing an instance of abuse in public schools in America. They need to have been written today, about public schools, and only discussing schools in the United States of American. Let me know what you find John. I'll look forwar to reading what you post and discussing the matter further.

[none-ya]

Pardon me, I would hate to be the voice of reason here, but I think the only thing we can agree upon is that it's just not safe to be a kid anywhere. Hell ,they make you get a license to drive a car or even own a dog.Programs? Schools? Hospitals? We need better parents.There was a time when "family values" was more than just a political or religious catchphrase.

[Botched Programming]

Licensing and oversight has proven to be ineffective in that we still see abuse occurring everywhere in our public school system.  The child who is bullying another child doesn't care if the school is licensed or not.  The thousands of people and potential predators who are exposed to these children everyday as they walk home to and from school are not effected by a school license etc, etc.

Programs literally have a closed system where the child is insulated from outside harm.  The employees are required to undergo backgound checks.  The student to staff ratio is 10 times better.  Kids are exposed to a highly structured environment which protects them better from bullying and other forms of abuse.

Any of us who read the news each day can see that our public school system is failing us as a safe place to send our children.



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This is utter bull crap... You never hear of a public school system being abusive, However you hear about program abuse daily... Oh major king of spin, quit trying to rationalize your support of programs...

[DannyB II]

I did, yet you couldnt respond to it.


The fact is that these staffers you claim provide more accountability and oversight are never actually monitored themselves, and whatsmore as we've shown time and time again many of them are never qualified or properly licensed.

The reason these programs avoid licensure is because they don't want oversight or transperancy. Public schools have plenty of it from multiple angles. You can't win that argument John. Public schools are safer because they have far more transperancy and oversight. Programs seek to regulate themselves and leave it at that.

Yes, public schools have plenty of it but as we can all see it doesn't make a difference. So please don't get to excited about your claim. We all understand that programs are not licensed and so forth some of this has to do with insurance costs and taxes. Financial expenses they would not like to pass on.
I really can not argue to muc

Really? So you think a tuition of literally thousands of dollars per month per kid on substandard living conditions, and unlicensed/unqualified hacks and the argument against proper licensure and oversight is insurance cost and taxes? So what you're saying is the the bottom line comes before safety.

I appreciate your honesty. You've proven that not only are public schools safer, but that programs care more about money than a childs safety.

Oh, I am sorry Robert I did not know that you live in this vacume of righteousness, the do gooder who never makes a decision based on finances where it might effect the population at hand.
Ya know you sound more like a politician everyday, what would you promise Robert. Difference between you and I Robert, I live in the real world and accept the ugliness everyday, no I don't condone abuses. I just know they occur (Self Will) and there is very little anybody can do to stop one person from being cruel. I do know that programs today on the whole are much safer then they were 20-30 years ago, have all the wicked people been stopped No and they never will be. Do we need more accountability yes, always, this should never stop evolving.
Oh, back to public schools, walk through Mississippi (northern), NYC, Dorchester Mass., Brockton Mass, ect......
Schools are safer, what planet do you live on.

[DannyB II]

Licensing and oversight has proven to be ineffective in that we still see abuse occurring everywhere in our public school system.  The child who is bullying another child doesn't care if the school is licensed or not.  The thousands of people and potential predators who are exposed to these children everyday as they walk home to and from school are not effected by a school license etc, etc.

Programs literally have a closed system where the child is insulated from outside harm.  The employees are required to undergo backgound checks.  The student to staff ratio is 10 times better.  Kids are exposed to a highly structured environment which protects them better from bullying and other forms of abuse.

Any of us who read the news each day can see that our public school system is failing us as a safe place to send our children.

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This is utter bull crap... You never hear of a public school system being abusive, However you hear about program abuse daily... Oh major king of spin, quit trying to rationalize your support of programs...

Botch, try looking at it this way. We are not having a argument about who's penis is bigger and we are just trying to determine if public schools harbor abusive acts. I think you would be able after further study acknowledge that public schools have abusiveness. That is all I am saying with the caveat that since public schools populations are much bigger they have more abuses, hence not safer then programs.

[RobertBruce]

Oh, I am sorry Robert I did not know that you live in this vacume of righteousness, the do gooder who never makes a decision based on finances where it might effect the population at hand.
Ya know you sound more like a politician everyday, what would you promise Robert. Difference between you and I Robert, I live in the real world and accept the ugliness everyday, no I don't condone abuses. I just know they occur (Self Will) and there is very little anybody can do to stop one person from being cruel. I do know that programs today on the whole are much safer then they were 20-30 years ago, have all the wicked people been stopped No and they never will be. Do we need more accountability yes, always, this should never stop evolving.
Oh, back to public schools, walk through Mississippi (northern), NYC, Dorchester Mass., Brockton Mass, ect......
Schools are safer, what planet do you live on.

I live on planet Earth. Again ask for help if you need it son.

The difference between you and I Danny is that while I acknowledge the ugliness that exist in the world, I don't feel that it should be tolerated. If it's within my power to do something about, I will. I would certainly never put the bottom line before making sure a child was abused. The fact that you would suggests that you're a pretty horrible person, and it's probably best that you never have any children. You're pretty sick.

[RobertBruce]

That is all I am saying with the caveat that since public schools populations are much bigger they have more abuses, hence not safer then programs.

You're making an assumption based strickly on population numbers, not likliehood or percentages. You're also still ignoring the fact that public schools embrace transparency making them safer, while programs avoid it. Do you have any actual data to support your claim though? I'm also still waiting on those news articles from you.

[DannyB II]

That is all I am saying with the caveat that since public schools populations are much bigger they have more abuses, hence not safer then programs.

You're making an assumption based strickly on population numbers, not likliehood or percentages. You're also still ignoring the fact that public schools embrace transparency making them safer, while programs avoid it. Do you have any actual data to support your claim though? I'm also still waiting on those news articles from you.

Public schools are transparent, my god Robert, where are you coming from. Ya, school administrations are about as transparent as your congress, please give me a break. No if a child, parent or parents complain about something it is not always addressed especially if it will cost money or make the school admin's look bad. Programs are no different then any other organization dealing with populations of kids. As they have evolved they have gotten better.

[DannyB II]

That is all I am saying with the caveat that since public schools populations are much bigger they have more abuses, hence not safer then programs.

You're making an assumption based strickly on population numbers, not likliehood or percentages. You're also still ignoring the fact that public schools embrace transparency making them safer, while programs avoid it. Do you have any actual data to support your claim though? I'm also still waiting on those news articles from you.

Public schools are transparent, my god Robert, where are you coming from. Ya, school administrations are about as transparent as your congress, please give me a break. No if a child, parent or parents complain about something it is not always addressed especially if it will cost money or make the school admin's look bad. Programs are no different then any other organization dealing with populations of kids. As they have evolved they have gotten better.