Cults and Values

[Dolphin]

On 2004-06-17 08:21:00, Antigen wrote:

"

Dolphin, that this woman is selling the kid's game set is not what bothers me. Here's what bothers me about what this woman is doing. She's publicly castigating the kid w/ a 3 page rant about what a horrible child he is and inviting the public (strangers on the net, mind you) to drop him an email and join in on the public dunning.



This is emblemic of one of the primary flaws in the Troubled Parent industry. It encourages parents to turn against their children and then calls it good parenting. It's not. How can you believe that a group of strangers on the net have the ability to help you better live your own values? They don't even know you and they think your values are wrong, by definition, if they conflict w/ Program dogma.

My take on this is that the mom  and the dad both were justifying their reason for selling these things.  I get that they were both angry, but more than that, they were validating their reason for doing this.  They don't sound like Program Parents to me.  A Program parent would have just sold the stuff (if the consequence fit the crime)and not made a production out of it to make themselves feel justified or validated. It looks like they are both wanting to learn how to teach cause and effect.   It would be interesting to find out if it made any impact on the kids.

I also didn't get that either one was even close to looking for a program.  Did they ask for help?  I missed it if they did. I also didn't get they were turning against their kids by the act of selling something that meant something to them.  The justification could be read that way.    

I also went to strugglingteens and read it a little more.  It does seem that it has more "get your kid into a program" advice than offering what they are now doing differently that may keep the kid out if they can, or if it's not to that point yet. I'm not suggesting that talking to strangers, like we are here, is better than face to face human contact.  When a program has a support group it can mean the world to a hurting parent or to teens to connect with each other in person.

I'm not being taken for a ride Antigen.  I've been a former program mom for a few years.  I can't control how another parent reacts to their child's behavior and definitely not what they do about it.  I know there are kids in programs that shouldn't be there, but it's not my call.  I know there are kids in programs that are benefiting and so are their parents.  

If I could control the admissions people, I'd say: If the parents are in a power struggle with each other, with the kid in the middle, don't admit the kid.  If the diagnosis is truly a mental illness, don't admit the kid.  If the parents want someone to "fix" their kid and aren't willing to do their own work, don't admit the kid. If the kid is in the normal teen rebellion phase, don't admit them. If a step parent is feeling overwhelmed, don't admit the kid. That can only be done if the parents are straight forward and honest.  Many cover up things which makes is difficult or impossible to determine.

Bottom line is, it's not my call. I can't control this and It's an energy suck to think I can.

[Deborah]

***My take on this is that the mom and the dad both were justifying their reason for selling these things.

Wasn?t necessary. Could?ve sold the tickets without the pathetic story. He was angry and needed to vent and be validated by others. Was eBay the place to do it?

 ***It looks like they are both wanting to learn how to teach cause and effect. It would be interesting to find out if it made any impact on the kids.

Cause and effect?  Drink, drive, wreck the car. If you survive- you loose your license, pay fines and increased insurance premiums, do community service, make visits to and pay a probation office for a lengthy amount of time,  pay additional penalty ($1500 in Tx) to retain a license after the fact,  have employers reject your application even though you won?t be driving a company vehicle. I?m sure there are other social ?consequences? that I?m not thinking of.  On top of this the kid was publicly humiliated and his concert tickets taken, could be forbidden from seeing his girlfriend, etc etc. Somehow I don?t think his punishment phase is over yet. How much ?cause and effect? is necessary, and when does it become too much? When is the ?cause and effect? actually a parent seeking revenge? This is very typical of programs- overkill on the punishment aspect of BM. Cause and effect when administered by humans is not always reasonable or rational, and frequently teaches nothing except who is the authority.

***I can't control how another parent reacts to their child's behavior and definitely not what they do about it.

Of course that is true, but we all have the ability to influence another?s decision. And when there is a gang (support group) of parents, all giving the same advice it can be, and often is, an even stronger influence. For me, a genuine support group would provide a venue for a parent to vent their latest frustration, be listened to while they sort through their confusion, go home and implement what they came up with, return the next week and vent some more, think some more, implement, etc etc etc. Very little advice would be given. In other words, the GROUP would not have an agenda except to support by listening. The primary purpose of a support group should be to provide a venue, so parents aren?t alone and isolated, which can result in rash and unreasonable decisions and behaviors.  The group would not work as a tag team to convince the parent of anything.

If admissions people followed your protocol there may be only a small fraction of kids in these facilities. I tend to believe that the majority of them are there for petty reasons. Or because they lied and wrecked the car- good kids making bad choices.

[Anonymous]

If I could control the admissions people, I'd say: If the parents are in a power struggle with each other, with the kid in the middle, don't admit the kid. If the diagnosis is truly a mental illness, don't admit the kid. If the parents want someone to "fix" their kid and aren't willing to do their own work, don't admit the kid. If the kid is in the normal teen rebellion phase, don't admit them. If a step parent is feeling overwhelmed, don't admit the kid. That can only be done if the parents are straight forward and honest. Many cover up things which makes is difficult or impossible to determine.

Dolphin, this is good advice but let's be real.  Admissions reps are not specialists in the field of adolescent behavioral healthcare.  They are salesmen who work on commission. Second, many of these programs offer financial assistance to parents who refer other parents.  Turning away a parent who can afford the hefty price tag attached to private placement hurts the admissions rep, the referring parent and the owner/operator.  Where I come from, that's bad business.  

 :wave: