Can people be forced to change?

[Whooter]

A couple of other examples:

A child who enters a program may and be forced to go to school 5 days a week against their will.  They may be forced to read.  Over time the child may pick up a book and read it on their own and look forward to learning each week.

Another example is the child may be forced to see a therapist each week and may resist at first but eventually the child may find they are benefitting from the therapists visits and start to look forward to going and start attending without asking.



...

Both of these examples are things that the program DEPRIVED me of.  I was kept out of school for five months (most of my sophomore year), and there were no reputable therapists (obviously).  Forced to read?  We were starved of any kind of intellectual stimulation at all, we would read cereal boxes because it was all we were allowed to read.  I think a better question would be; is it ethical to force someone to change into what WE think they should be?  And does this end justify ANY means?

That is terrible, shadyacres, I hope you  dont view all programs as being that way like many here do.  Most programs that I have been exposed to work with kids who have dropped out of school, encourage them to read and provide them with individual therapy as needed.  I can see why you have a negative view of programs.



...

[SUCK_IT]

You have to love this place.  You got it exactly backwards Anne.  Until their 18 kids have no rights whatsoever and as parents it's our job to mold them into what we want them to be because we know better.  Really anne, would you let your 16 yearold decide everything for herself?  no of course not.  We make the decisions and tell them what they will do with their lives because they don't know better.

[Froderik]

[DannyB II]

SOS wrote:
Mr. Reuben - I don't consider that stating the obvious, and pointing out the questionable & underhanded manner in which you've drawn your conclusions as "taking shots at you".
Do you really feel attacked by others telling the truth?  Well I guess when one lives a life
built upon dishonesty & deceit, then the truth can be quite scary.

Back to our "discussion" regarding change.  If a person sees that what they're being forced
to do is better for them and DECIDES to embrace these new ideas/ways and make them their
own - then they are still MAKING A CHOICE.  How do you "embrace something new and take
it to be your own" without CHOOSING to do so?  The answer is - you can't!

So you see Mr. Reuben - even when others attempt to force change on someone in
a non-abuse manner, true change does not occur unless the individual makes a conscious
decision & chooses to change themselves.   We do agree however that people
can be forced to comply, and there is a distinct difference between compliance & change.

Mr Assbag, (His name is Whooter, use it)
Compliance is change. When someone has gone from rebellion to compliance that is a big change. Acquiescing may be the word you were looking for but really that maybe just playing semantics.

[DannyB II]

I'd like to have the last word here - even if it is a bit off topic.

Anne, I just wanted to commend you for the maturity and restraint you've shown in
responding to the taunts of this immature, programmed, fucking whack-job, internet
tuff guy, DannyB II.  It takes a lot more patience than people realize.

And yes this is indeed a great thread! Thanks Anne.

Thanks, but he's really just like a little gnat that annoys the hell out of you.  Even the pro-program people see him for what he is......a barely literate, sad, angry and pathetic little man who is threatened by strong women and for some reason needs to find a guru to tell him how to live his life.  That New Warrior Training shit just cracks me up and tells me quite a bit about him.

/sorry for the threadjack, but wanted to respond to SOS.

 
The workshops I do, are my business. I have noticed you enjoy putting down other people and the experiences they share.
This bullshit you wrote about me was unnecessary, I have told you a hundred times Anne, I do not agree with your thoughts on the TTI. Once again you have to resort to humiliating yourself.
You told me in the PM's we shared this type of behavior was over. I guess not. (Please for sake of saving face, deny this).
Your a asshole, Anne.

[Anne Bonney]

SOS wrote:
Mr. Reuben - I don't consider that stating the obvious, and pointing out the questionable & underhanded manner in which you've drawn your conclusions as "taking shots at you".
Do you really feel attacked by others telling the truth?  Well I guess when one lives a life
built upon dishonesty & deceit, then the truth can be quite scary.

Back to our "discussion" regarding change.  If a person sees that what they're being forced
to do is better for them and DECIDES to embrace these new ideas/ways and make them their
own - then they are still MAKING A CHOICE.  How do you "embrace something new and take
it to be your own" without CHOOSING to do so?  The answer is - you can't!

So you see Mr. Reuben - even when others attempt to force change on someone in
a non-abuse manner, true change does not occur unless the individual makes a conscious
decision & chooses to change themselves.   We do agree however that people
can be forced to comply, and there is a distinct difference between compliance & change.

Mr Assbag, (His name is Whooter, use it)

 :rofl:  :rofl:

Like you're in any position to tell anyone anything.  SOS's name is Son of Serbia.  Use it, assbag.  God but you're tedious.  

Compliance is change. When someone has gone from rebellion to compliance that is a big change.

Only to the indoctrinated.  Compliance is not change.  It's going along with something, in the case of the TTI it's for survival......it's not true, inner change which is what these places advertise.

Acquiescing may be the word you were looking for but really that maybe just playing semantics.

Don't try and use words you don't understand, little one.

[Anne Bonney]

My workshops I do are my business but I have noticed this is how you pleasure yourself, putting down other people and the experiences they share.

Yes, they're your business but if you're going to put it out here for all to see, especially on a message board, people are going to comment on it.  Better toughen up there bucko.

This bullshit you wrote about me was unnecessary, I have told you a hundred times Anne, I do not agree with your thoughts on the TTI. Once again you have to resort to humiliating yourself. You told me in the PM's we shared this type of behavior was over. I guess not. (Please for sake of saving face, deny this).

I agreed that if you stopped behaving like a complete dick, I'd lighten up on you.  You're behaving like a complete dick, so the deal's off.   :twofinger:

Your a asshole, Anne.  

It's AN asshole, douchebag.  Make learning proper English one of your new goals.  It'll serve you well in life.

[DannyB II]

SOS wrote:
Mr. Reuben - I don't consider that stating the obvious, and pointing out the questionable & underhanded manner in which you've drawn your conclusions as "taking shots at you".
Do you really feel attacked by others telling the truth?  Well I guess when one lives a life
built upon dishonesty & deceit, then the truth can be quite scary.

Back to our "discussion" regarding change.  If a person sees that what they're being forced
to do is better for them and DECIDES to embrace these new ideas/ways and make them their
own - then they are still MAKING A CHOICE.  How do you "embrace something new and take
it to be your own" without CHOOSING to do so?  The answer is - you can't!

So you see Mr. Reuben - even when others attempt to force change on someone in
a non-abuse manner, true change does not occur unless the individual makes a conscious
decision & chooses to change themselves.   We do agree however that people
can be forced to comply, and there is a distinct difference between compliance & change.

Mr Assbag, (His name is Whooter, use it)

 :rofl:  :rofl:

Like you're in any position to tell anyone anything.  SOS's name is Son of Serbia.  Use it, assbag.  God but you're tedious.  

Compliance is change. When someone has gone from rebellion to compliance that is a big change.

Only to the indoctrinated.  Compliance is not change.  It's going along with something, in the case of the TTI it's for survival......it's not true, inner change which is what these places advertise.

Acquiescing may be the word you were looking for but really that maybe just playing semantics.

Don't try and use words you don't understand, little one.

I can see you are back to humiliating yourself again. Well don't drag me into your temper tantrums.
When you grow up PM, me.
Bye Bye

[Whooter]

If you force a child into a program and he embraces many of the new lifestyles, education, reading and after being exposed to it for a long period of time he may learn to enjoy it and adopt it into his own routine.

This would be considered change..  initially forced (compliant) and then finally accepted.



...

[Anne Bonney]

When you grow up PM, me.

Why the hell would I want to do that?  You're nothing more than a nuisance.  I responded to one of the few PMs out of the myriad you sent to me that you didn't delete before I could read it.

[Anne Bonney]

If you force a child into a program and he embraces many of the new lifestyles, education, reading and after being exposed to it for a long period of time he may learn to enjoy it and adopt it into his own routine.

This would be considered change..  initially forced (compliant) and then finally accepted.

Yeah, and the only way to do that is to 'break' the person first.  It ends up doing more damage than good.

[DannyB II]

When you grow up PM, me.

Why the hell would I want to do that?  You're nothing more than a nuisance.  I responded to one of the few PMs out of the myriad you sent to me that you didn't delete before I could read it.

Like I said, save face and deny. This is what you do. We all just play along with you Anne.
Your like Tracy Lords, only without the old money.

[Anne Bonney]

When you grow up PM, me.

Why the hell would I want to do that?  You're nothing more than a nuisance.  I responded to one of the few PMs out of the myriad you sent to me that you didn't delete before I could read it.

Like I said, save face and deny.

I didn't deny it you pathetic dolt.

[Whooter]

If you force a child into a program and he embraces many of the new lifestyles, education, reading and after being exposed to it for a long period of time he may learn to enjoy it and adopt it into his own routine.

This would be considered change..  initially forced (compliant) and then finally accepted.

Yeah, and the only way to do that is to 'break' the person first.  It ends up doing more damage than good.

Forcing a child to go to school isnt breaking them Anne,  Forcing a child to make their bed or eat healthy foods isnt breaking them.  See this is why many of us dont believe your accounts and definitions of what occurred at straight.  This is not abusive, or breaking someone or brainwashing.  

The program will get the child up and get that child to a school setting and teach them.  They will do this every day.  They will tell the child they need to read and write.  They will tell the child it is time to see their therapist....
over time the child may embrace and enjoy their time in the class room and look forward to it.  they may start to get benefit from their therapist and enjoy that too.  This is real change, Anne.




...

[Anne Bonney]

Forcing a child to go to school isnt breaking them Anne,  Forcing a child to make their bed or eat healthy foods isnt breaking them.

But that's not what we're talking about and you know it.  We're talking about forcing a kid to fundamentally change who they are and that change is brought about thru the use of LGAT-type methods.  Those break kids.  It's a bad idea to break a kid, no matter how good the intentions are.

See this is why many of us dont believe your accounts and definitions of what occurred at straight.  This is not abusive, or breaking someone or brainwashing.

 

Again, we're not talking about getting them to make their beds or brush their teeth, but you know this.  You insist on making it seem like that's what we're discussing in order to deflect attention away from how they get the kids to comply.