Dead, insane, or in jail (general discussion)

[none-ya]

Dead, insane, or in jail is just a catch phrase that struck a chord with people. From  aa or synanon through the seed / striaght  and then the rest of the world.Why this phrase is anything more than nostalgia today is beyond me
But I guess it works on some people

that's all i got.

[none-ya]

Wait a minute (sometimes i' ride the little bus)
But if all through history the graveyards , mental hospitals , and prisons always seem to be full to the limit, I'd say that Dead, insane, or in jail is a pretty good probability for just about any one, any where  any time.
now i'm out

[Anne Bonney]

The dead insane in jail bit was just used as a way to attack kids by staff in my program. It was a complete manipulation, they used it as a challenge to kids because there is no way to refute their all powerful definition of you as an out of control failure. But using this phrase in a coercive fashion is to be expected under the system that these programs have their staff and 'students' act within.

Yup and unfortunately that descriptor can follow you into adulthood no matter how false it was/is.  That's why so many people who dare to criticize programs are just written off as "disgruntled druggies" or people who "couldn't commit" etc., despite the fact that it was never the case in the first place for many of us.

I think the DIJ phrase was more of a manipulation tool on the parents.  Tell them that their kids will DIE without the program and they'll keep their wallets open.

[BuzzKill]

think the DIJ phrase was more of a manipulation tool on the parents. Tell them that their kids will DIE without the program and they'll keep their wallets open.

It really is powerful that way. They exploit ones natural fears, fanning them into un-natural and exaggerated levels that begin to feel like an inevitability. Program parents often express to those having doubts that their kid is as good as dead if the leave the program. The more extreme of them can seem a disturbingly gleeful that your kid is bound to die if you've dared to leave the program or criticize it.  I can not explain why but I can tell you that even when all ones intellect is screaming that the program is not to be trusted - that they are clearly using coercive persuasion on parent and student alike, and that there is mounting evidence serious levels of abuse are common - your emotional response nearly overpowers it, demanding you stick with this program b/c your kid is as good as dead of you don't. The fear is very real and very powerful and the programs use it masterfully to control the parents.

[DannyB II]

.

[DannyB II]

The dead insane in jail bit was just used as a way to attack kids by staff in my program. It was a complete manipulation, they used it as a challenge to kids because there is no way to refute their all powerful definition of you as an out of control failure. But using this phrase in a coercive fashion is to be expected under the system that these programs have their staff and 'students' act within.

Yup and unfortunately that descriptor can follow you into adulthood no matter how false it was/is.  That's why so many people who dare to criticize programs are just written off as "disgruntled druggies" or people who "couldn't commit" etc., despite the fact that it was never the case in the first place for many of us.

I think the DIJ phrase was more of a manipulation tool on the parents.  Tell them that their kids will DIE without the program and they'll keep their wallets open.

Yeah, that's all it was. Will just put this "quote" right over here in this nice little ole box and just forget about it. Thanks for that simplistic answer.
One nagging thought I have, what do we do with all the adolescent criminals, drug addicts/mentally maladjusted due to drugs and the dead bodies?
Oh, that right this is not happening in this world. This world consist of kids that were sent to programs, institutions, jail and their death beds because there parents were manipulated into those conclusions. There was nothing wrong with any of these kids.
Damn It, then why do they keep dying......

[Whooter]

Many fornits posters exploit peoples fears also.  They use the words Brain Washing, Gulag, prison, Rape, Death, Kidnapping etc.  when speaking about programs.  So I think it is generally accepted, here, that it is fair to play on peoples fears and programs cannot be singled out as the only ones to do this.



...

[none-ya]

Dead insane or in jail has been used so much, it's no more relevant than "where's the beef".
(showing my age again)

[Ursus]

I think the descriptive of having been in danger of being "dead, insane or in jail" sans the program ... also dovetails rather nicely with the preferred self-image of the fully kool-aid perfused TC apologist. It sometimes seems like the baaaad part of these people's lives gets exaggerated ... to better emphasize the contrast with their lives once they "saw the light."

[Whooter]

I think the descriptive of having been in danger of being "dead, insane or in jail" sans the program ... also dovetails rather nicely with the preferred self-image of the fully kool-aid perfused TC apologist. It sometimes seems like the baaaad part of these people's lives gets exaggerated ... to better emphasize the contrast with their lives once they "saw the light."

Exactly, each side is trying to get their point across by exaggerating.....  "Dead, Insane or in Jail"... vs.   "Gulag, Prison, Kidnapping".  It is meant to get people thinking about whether they should place their child or not.  You need to consider the down side and not just the up side.

Although, I don't personally think Dead or in Jail is exaggerating in most cases.



...

[Froderik]

Dead insane or in jail has been used so much, it's no more relevant than "where's the beef".
(showing my age again)

 :rofl:

[Ursus]

I think the descriptive of having been in danger of being "dead, insane or in jail" sans the program ... also dovetails rather nicely with the preferred self-image of the fully kool-aid perfused TC apologist. It sometimes seems like the baaaad part of these people's lives gets exaggerated ... to better emphasize the contrast with their lives once they "saw the light."

Exactly, each side is trying to get their point across by exaggerating.....  "Dead, Insane or in Jail"... vs.   "Gulag, Prison, Kidnapping".  It is meant to get people thinking about whether they should place their child or not.  You need to consider the down side and not just the up side.

Although, I don't personally think Dead or in Jail is exaggerating in most cases.

Mmm. I think the point I was trying to make is that some people want to see themselves in having been in such a sorry state. That is, it has nothing to do with someone else placing their kid in a program or not. It has entirely to do with taking on such a melodramatic ethos in order to rationalize one's decisions and to bring greater importance to one's life.

The profound lows, the exhilarating highs, the obligatory illumination that provides the pat answers... Kind of like a psychological or spiritual variation of the classic rags to riches tale.

I s'pose it's human nature to exaggerate the extremes, but... while not wishing to undermine the direness of the straits some folk really were in, I think some folk do take it to a perverse degree of self-delusion or even narcissism.

[DannyB II]

I think the descriptive of having been in danger of being "dead, insane or in jail" sans the program ... also dovetails rather nicely with the preferred self-image of the fully kool-aid perfused TC apologist. It sometimes seems like the baaaad part of these people's lives gets exaggerated ... to better emphasize the contrast with their lives once they "saw the light."

and you seem to minimize the bad parts, because as many here, you have no idea what there experiencing. The whole world of TTI, is not as you experienced/lived it.

[DannyB II]

I think the descriptive of having been in danger of being "dead, insane or in jail" sans the program ... also dovetails rather nicely with the preferred self-image of the fully kool-aid perfused TC apologist. It sometimes seems like the baaaad part of these people's lives gets exaggerated ... to better emphasize the contrast with their lives once they "saw the light."

Exactly, each side is trying to get their point across by exaggerating.....  "Dead, Insane or in Jail"... vs.   "Gulag, Prison, Kidnapping".  It is meant to get people thinking about whether they should place their child or not.  You need to consider the down side and not just the up side.

Although, I don't personally think Dead or in Jail is exaggerating in most cases.

Mmm. I think the point I was trying to make is that some people want to see themselves in having been in such a sorry state. That is, it has nothing to do with someone else placing their kid in a program or not. It has entirely to do with taking on such a melodramatic ethos in order to rationalize one's decisions and to bring greater importance to one's life.

The profound lows, the exhilarating highs, the obligatory illumination that provides the pat answers... Kind of like a psychological or spiritual variation of the classic rags to riches tale.

I s'pose it's human nature to exaggerate the extremes, but... while not wishing to undermine the direness of the straits some folk really were in, I think some folk do take it to a perverse degree of self-delusion or even narcissism.

Well done, one problem, this explanation works for you and your kin but has nothing to do with the reality a lot of kids face.
Now whether a program, parent or child is manipulating is not the point here (IMO), keeping children from death, insanity or juvenile detention centers is.

[RobertBruce]

Although, I don't personally think Dead or in Jail is exaggerating in most cases.

That's because you support kiddie prisons, gulags, and kidnapping. You disprove your own point by showing that programmies are not exaggerating when they tell kids who shake off the brainwashing and walk out that they will soon be 'dead, insane, or in jail '. It was a common catch phrase among the staff when I was locked up at HLA. Anytime any kid got out he was assured of his fate. The funny thing is that I stay in touch with many of my former inmates, and the ones who escaped the program before completion are better adjusted now than the ones who completed it.

No one is exaggerating John, on either side. Thank you for proving that point.