Author Topic: Re: Dead, insane, or in jail (recovering from low expectatio  (Read 2764 times)

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Offline Hedge

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail (recovering from low expectatio
« on: September 21, 2010, 12:07:17 AM »
In my facility, the mantra was dead-or-in-jail. Maybe because the "insane" was already presumed to be true.

It's been hard for me to recognize this mantra as being an untruth. After all, many of us were already almost dead, and some of us had already been in jail. That's what made it look like a fact.

I can see now how it was used to manipulate us. But I was wondering: how have other people dealt with this mantra as adults?

How have you been able to get it out of your head, away from your expectations for yourself and for the other kids who were in programs with you?
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Offline psy

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail (recovering from low expectatio
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2010, 07:17:44 PM »
Quote from: "hedge"
how have other people dealt with this mantra as adults?

How have you been able to get it out of your head, away from your expectations for yourself and for the other kids who were in programs with you?
Ok folks.  These two questions were the focus of the thread.  Let's try to stick to it.
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Offline Samara

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail (recovering from low expectatio
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2010, 07:45:54 PM »
Maybe it differs by facility, but I never was dead, insane or in jail. Certainly never headed to jail at all. Had about as much chance as dying as the next guy. Which is 100%, but I can't say I was spiraling to death... Unhappy, yes. Insane, no. I'd say the same about most kids in my program. The simply mirrored most of the population as is.  Which is why that quote is laughable for my circumstances and certainly for most of the kids I knew.  But that didn't stop them from pedaling the DIJ baloney.  But my facility was not a psych ward, nor was it a drug treatment center.  Maybe other programs included more high risk prone youths but I sure as hell wouldn't give them the DIJ prophesy.  It's common sense that if you commit crimes you may get caught and go to jail. It's common sense that illegal drugs may carry inherent risks.

I think breaking the DIJ mantra is exploring your beliefs, evaluating your actions and lifestyle, and being accountable to yourself and your choices.  Certain choices may lead to certain outcomes, and so be it. Decide if its worth the risk.

If you are literally insane, a stark raving mad lunatic, well, DIJ or no DIJ, you're nuts.  But experiencing issues such as anxiety or depression does not a lunatic make.
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Offline Samara

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail (recovering from low expectatio
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2010, 07:53:06 PM »
And as far as recovering from low expectations - that's a hard one. Some parents set a high bar, but fully expect you to reach them (or come close). They believe in you. Some set unrealistically high expectations. But low expectations, from a parent or a program are just as harmful.  If you are treated as unworthy or incapable, low and behold!  I think the only thing you can do is realize 1. you can't change what was already done. So don't look externally for other people to (in)validate you, and 2. you have to attack your low self esteem poco y poco and step by step.  Build on small goals and successes and build on them. It has to be a mission. What is strange is that it all the sudden hits you that you are stronger and then you scaffold on that strength.
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Offline Samara

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail (recovering from low expectatio
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2010, 01:08:29 AM »
You can look good on paper and be scarred.

You can be scarred and succeed regardless.

You can succeed in spite of the program because of drive and self awareness.

But I've also seen program graduates incapable of existing "successfully"  in the mainstream or having years and years of delayed development.  I would love to say program graduation = success, but it didn't. I know too many people who were not on drugs but did them later. People who sold themselves... killed themselves... couldn't maintain college or a career. Couldn't understand why they couldn't when they had all the " program tools."

It is a big slap in the face to continually put down people who have had traumatic experiences. Just hearing the stuff that went on at Straight or the Seed makes my skin crawl. I really don't know how anyone reclaims any sense of self worth after that, and CEDU and its offspring were quite similar in many of its modalities.
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Offline psy

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail (recovering from low expectatio
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2010, 12:15:05 PM »
bump.  Remember:

Quote
how have other people dealt with this mantra as adults?

How have you been able to get it out of your head, away from your expectations for yourself and for the other kids who were in programs with you?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail (recovering from low expectatio
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2010, 12:40:17 PM »
Quote
how have other people dealt with this mantra as adults?

How have you been able to get it out of your head, away from your expectations for yourself and for the other kids who were in programs with you?
[/quote]

Mainly by associating with people who aren't washed by the program.  Most normal people don't automatically think that their kid is going to end up DIJ, even if they're 'acting out'.  It's frustrating and scary, but they don't come up with the idea of programs as a fix on their own.  When I reconnected with my "druggie friends" after getting out, they were shocked that I was the one who was sent.  They were shocked that my parents and the program thought I was headed for death.  They saw me for what I was....a normal teen with some issues who was acting out.

And again, researching how programs work http://www.ex-cult.org/ to see how the manipulation works.
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Offline psy

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail (recovering from low expectatio
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2010, 12:42:51 PM »
For me it was just education, like Anne says.  Everything else follows after that.  Read Margaret Singer's "Cults in Our Midst".  She has a chapter on healing too, but for me it was mostly just understanding what went on and by what methods I was changed.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Maximilian

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail (recovering from low expectatio
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2010, 12:50:35 PM »
I came very close to dying a couple of times from drug overdose. I've been diagnosed as insane in the hospital before, and I have been in jail. So to some of us this cliche rings true. I can't speak for other people or judge whether they should have been sent to a program or not, for all I know I am the only kid in the universe who really needed to be in the program. But the truth is, I did need it, and without it I would have continued with these behaviors and ended up not insane or in jail, but dead. That's because when you go insane or go to jail, eventually you get out. When I get out I go back to using drugs with a voracious appetite, one that would suggest I don't really value my own life at all. Perhaps that's true, I can't really say and sometimes I do wonder about it, but I believe there is something inside me, something dark, that has never completely disappeared. This darkness prompts me to self destruct, at a rapid pace, and when I get in that state it usually takes an outside force to save me from myself.

So for me it's not a matter of low expectations, it's accepting the inevitable. My most important priority is maintaining some kind of control over this darkness and preventing myself from falling down that rabbit hole once again. I've done fairly well at just that for the past couple of years, and part of that was accepting who I am, and to do that requires an honest examination of myself, despite the depressing conclusions I sometimes reach.  I used to blame the program, and my parents, and whatever else I could to prevent me from having to realize that I was the cause of most of my own problems. I realized it's not the part of me that wants to succeed that causes problems, it's that darkness deep inside that wants nothing but to destroy it's host, like a cancer. When times are good this darkness goes into remission, but it can come like an overwhelming tidal wave, when it's least expected. So to me it's not about low expectations so much as a warning of what could have been, and what might be, if I do lose control again and the darkness takes control over me.
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Offline psy

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail (recovering from low expectatio
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2010, 01:14:13 PM »
Quote from: "Maximilian"
So for me it's not a matter of low expectations, it's accepting the inevitable.
So you've learned to accept and live with low expectations of yourself where some magical "darkness" takes control of you and makes you do bad bad things?

Me?  One thing that really helped me is realizing that we control, and are responsible for, our own actions.  Who we are is defined by what we choose to do, not the other way around.  We can choose to change.  We can choose to strive to succeed.  We can't choose to succeed, as we can't control the actions of others, but we can choose not to take steps which will likely lead to failure.  There is no mysterious "darkness" taking over our bodies and making us do bad things.  Free will is what I believe in, not deterministic, fatalistic, crap spewed by some program trying to convince people they're doomed without the savior program.  It's a psychological con.  Nothing more.  They convince people that they're doomed to failure so people believe trying is futile. Because the people don't try, they fail, and the "prophecy" is proved true.  The people then go crying back to the program.  The whole key to it is a lie.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail (recovering from low expectatio
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2010, 01:35:15 PM »
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Maximilian"
So for me it's not a matter of low expectations, it's accepting the inevitable.
So you've learned to accept and live with low expectations of yourself where some magical "darkness" takes control of you and makes you do bad bad things?

Me?  One thing that really helped me is realizing that we control, and are responsible for, our own actions.  Who we are is defined by what we choose to do, not the other way around.  We can choose to change.  We can choose to strive to succeed.  We can't choose to succeed, as we can't control the actions of others, but we can choose not to take steps which will likely lead to failure.  There is no mysterious "darkness" taking over our bodies and making us do bad things.  Free will is what I believe in, not deterministic, fatalistic, crap spewed by some program trying to convince people they're doomed without the savior program.  It's a psychological con.  Nothing more.  They convince people that they're doomed to failure so people believe trying is futile. Because the people don't try, they fail, and the "prophecy" is proved true.  The people then go crying back to the program.  The whole key to it is a lie.


 :tup:  :tup:

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-addmonst.html
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline psy

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail (recovering from low expectatio
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2010, 11:26:45 AM »
bump
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline seamus

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail (recovering from low expectatio
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2010, 04:02:41 PM »
In my situation,being a huge asshole has helped me survive ,pyhsically.Maybe in some ways im really damaged goods,but hell, being aprogram vet doesnt make me exclusive in that. Taken as a whole ,I ve had huge successes,and some really big failures, I collapse,I get back the fuck up.If a shark dont swim...........it fuckin drowns.At times I wonder how much I have left to fight with........geuss im gonna have to get in touch with my "inner asshole" to find out.
Just cause some asshat tells ya the moon is made of green cheese,dont make it so...
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Offline Froderik

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail (recovering from low expectatio
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2010, 09:27:08 AM »
Quote from: "seamus"
Just cause some asshat tells ya the moon is made of green cheese,dont make it so...

 :tup:
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