General Interest > Tacitus' Realm
What illegal drugs would you legalize?
Maximilian:
--- Quote from: "Anne Bonney" ---
You're moving the goalposts. Getting sober does not equal AA. People aren't going to die if they leave AA, even if the do have a problem. There are other options.
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For many people getting sober does equal AA, or at least partly attributed to it. It's not a certainty people are going to die if they leave AA, but if they continue to use they might if they don't get help. Yes there are other options, most of which cost a lot of money, something not everybody has access to.
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That....People aren't going to die if they leave AA, even if the do have a problem. That there are other options. That AA is more a religion than a simple self help group. That it often raises the binge drinking and death rate of alcoholics.
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They might die, many people do die from alcoholism and drug overdoses every year. I would say AA is a spiritual self help group, they are open to people of any religions and there only goal is to help people get sober. They believe part of this involves spirituality, and things beyond ourselves like a Higher power, I think that's a positive aspect and something that traditional therapists or drug rehab tend to ignore.
--- Quote ---I dismiss it because it tries to tell people that AA is the only way, i.e. the 12 & 12 saying that if they leave they "surely are signing their own death warrant". That's not true and it's dangerous to convince people that it is.
I agree....AA completely smacks of religion. So then, what becomes of the non-believers? Just as religion isn't "the" answer for everyone, neither is AA despite the dire warnings of someone signing their own death warrant if they reject AA's path.
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Think about this for a minute. How many kids die in programs every year? Two, three, ten? Compare that to the amount of people who die of alcoholism, and drug addiction. Fornits is filled to the brim with dire warnings about how your kid will be harmed or killed in a program, many tears are shed here for these kids, and rightfully so. So think about people who become friends with people who deal with addiction issues, how many of their friends have they seen kill themselves through alcohol or drug use? Tens of thousands of people die of these reasons every year, so the dire warnings, in my opinions are both justified and accurate. Your cause is saving young kids in programs, and offer the same type of warnings to parents, it's the same thing, the posters here of all people should understand this. Their cause is to help and save people from themselves and their addictions. If people don't feel AA helps them they don't need to go, it's that simple. But their doors are open for anybody who needs it. I think they are wonderful.
Maximilian:
--- Quote from: "psy" ---OK ok ok. Sort of my fault but I think this thread has veered a bit off-topic. If we're going to talk about AA or the disease concept, let's talk about it as it relates to drug prohibition. A debate on whether AA works is something better suited to the Addiction Treatment Philosophies forum.
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Fair enough, I'll try to keep it on topic. But to be honest, sending a discussion to the ATP forum seems to be the kiss of death, as far as discussion goes. Not many people are seeming to opt in to that forum.
DannyB II:
--- Quote from: "psy" ---
--- Quote from: "Maximilian" ---This is why nobody will ever come to you for help losing weight. Or why an alcoholic or addict would never go to Psy for help. You are free to your opinions, but take a look around at where people go to get help and you might learn something.
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Just because I don't believe alcoholism or addiction is a disease doesn't mean I wouldn't help somebody i cared about to deal with the temptation from their bad habits in any available way. That being said, i'm not going to coddle them and lie and say that it's the alcohol's fault, or the drug's fault. I'm certainly not going to make the leap to saying that all drugs should be banned just because some people choose to use them irresponsibly. Some people drive irresponsibly. We don't ban cars or say that the cars drove the people irresponsibly.
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Psy, that's not hard to accept. For most addicts and alcoholics it is not the substance that is really kicking there ass, but the symptoms behind the affliction. Old saying, get a drunk horse thief sober and what do you got, a sober horse thief. It does come down to decisions and some just don't have the intestinal fortitude to stop killing themselves.
One point I will not argue about is what happens when I ingest alcohol as compared to when you ingest alcohol, Psy. For whatever reasons (physically or mentally) I have a different response then others (not everyone) just most. From day one, I have always drank till I about passed out,
DannyB II:
--- Quote from: "none-ya" ---
--- Quote ---Anne Bonney wrote;
" I try to get my mom to stop eating so much. "
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Maybe she could speak to max pain. I understand he has a weight problem also
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None ya, why are you giving Max such a hard time. Don't like this thread or Max move on. Being immature does not look good for a 54 year old.
psy:
--- Quote from: "Maximilian" ---
--- Quote from: "psy" ---OK ok ok. Sort of my fault but I think this thread has veered a bit off-topic. If we're going to talk about AA or the disease concept, let's talk about it as it relates to drug prohibition. A debate on whether AA works is something better suited to the Addiction Treatment Philosophies forum.
--- End quote ---
Fair enough, I'll try to keep it on topic. But to be honest, sending a discussion to the ATP forum seems to be the kiss of death, as far as discussion goes. Not many people are seeming to opt in to that forum.
--- End quote ---
Maybe because some people don't know about it. But the word will get round. There is a lot of interest in the discussion as is evidenced by this thread.
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