General Interest > Tacitus' Realm
What illegal drugs would you legalize?
Maximilian:
--- Quote from: "psy" ---Stealing is just a symptom of drug addiction, caused in part by the high price of drugs due to prohibition. So let's say they are made legal and the price plummets, is that going to affect the number of people who get addicted to drugs? If you can buy an eight ball for $5, isn't it more likely that more people will use, and use to a degree that causes them addiction and health problems?
OK, Max. I have an assignment for you. I want you to go out and ask random non-drug-users whether they've been just dying to try smack but have avoided it simply because it's illegal. When you find that one guy, the one nobody has ever met, bring him here.
See this survey.
If hard drugs such as heroin or cocaine were legalized would you be likely to use them? 99% SAY "NO"
--- End quote ---
What people say, and what they do are not necessarily in agreement all the time. Especially when talking about drug use.
--- Quote ---The same argument I just made above applies here. Legality of a substance is not likely to affect use. It's not likely to affect whether or not people drive under the influence. I'm not advocating letting people drive under the influence of smack or whatever. I think that what's done with alcohol should be done with drugs. Drugs should be evaluated on an indiviudal basis and reasonable limits should be set. An even better approach would be not to test for substances, but to test ability (for intoxication). If a person can't complete a test of ability, regardless of cause, they should be charged with reckless endangerment or even attempted murder. I'm all in favor of throwing the book at people who endanger others in such a manner and not at all in favor of letting them off with a few AA meetings.
--- End quote ---
The more drunk/high somebody gets, the less likely they are to make a rational and reasoned choice. That's why so many people drive drunk/high even though the consequences are fairly severe. If you did a poll like your previous question, how many people would say they plan on driving drunk in the future? Now compare that with the amount of people who do eventually drive drunk, does it match?
--- Quote ---Maybe they are using it to deal with or otherwise coping with an actual disease. I do agree compulsive substance use can be a symptom of disease, but i'll never accept that a conscious behavior in itself, however repetitive, can constituted a disease. People choose to do irrational things all the time. People jump off bridges. They gamble (no substances there). They are otherwise self destructive. Sometimes they hate themselves. Sometimes they're depressed. Sometimes there is some other mental illness.
--- End quote ---
Well disease is only a word, you can call it whatever you like. I call it addiction. Suicide I believe is an end result of mental illness. Gambling can be an addiction. If you hate yourself enough to harm yourself, that's probably a mental illness as well, same as depression. I also believe that addiction can happen despite not having any other major issues to deal with, it can be an issue all in of itself. I've heard a lot of stories about people who were living the good life, got involved in recreational drugs with their buddies, and for some reason they kept going down the dark path, while their friends were able to remain responsible users.
--- Quote ---Sorry, but AA is not science. It's more akin the the exorcism you talk about. AA was never science based. It was and is faith-based. The problem, like in the dark ages, is that it's gained so much influence those who dare speak ill of it or present addiction as a choice get burned at the stake as heretics. There is no scientific basis behind the commonly held belief that addiction is a disease. There *may* be genetic influence (even that is weak) but even if a person is born to "like" a substances more than others, it's still just a sliding scale of desire, not an overwhelming compulsion.
--- End quote ---
I'm saying until science can cure addiction, people will use whatever is available to them that works. For now, that appears to be AA. If it didn't work, people wouldn't show up, and AA would cease to exist. Some people choose to go the psychiatric route and use medication, other people choose to go cold turkey on their own, and this shows there is no sure fire solution to addiction. I'm sure people with mental illness found a way to cope before modern medical psychology and psychiatry, and I feel that is the stage addiction is in. People know it exists, they don't really know why, or how, but they want to do their best to help themselves in the meantime.
Botched Programming:
For me personally I feel that people who claim they had a "GOOD PROGRAM EXPERIENCE" still have a problems accepting truth over fact. The conditioned behavior and words that the program saved my life is a phrase is mostly prominent when a person has been indoctrinated. Once indoctrinated the person becomes a sadomasicist believing they deserve the punishment and abuse that they receive while being warehoused..It's like a movie I saw once where teenagers have a microchip installed that helps control their behavior.... Just ain't right..... The kid does not grow on their own, forced to be a certain way which in the end the kid will either be stuck or will rebel..
Anne Bonney:
--- Quote from: "psy" ---
--- Quote from: "Anne Bonney" ---
--- Quote from: "Maximilian" --- Why is an adult responsible for their own actions, but a teenager is not?
--- End quote ---
Because they're children with still developing and growing brains.
--- End quote ---
I disagree. I think they both are. If we're going to advocate giving kids rights to refuse treatment we have to hold them accountable for their actions. Kids are told from a very young age that stealing is wrong. If they steal to support a habit, imprison them for the theft.
--- End quote ---
Point taken. I didn't mean that teens are not to be held accountable for their actions. What I meant was, as a response to Max suggesting that kids are responsible for themselves being placed in programs, that there is a difference between an adult making a decision to use drugs and a teen being forced into rehab for a problem he/she may or may not have.
Anne Bonney:
--- Quote from: "Maximilian" ---
When they are cutting up a line praying they won't have to use, wishing they could just stop, right before they do another line. When you use drugs, and you wish you weren't, that's addiction.
--- End quote ---
No, it's a lack of self control.
--- Quote from: "Maximilian" ---I'm sure there are teams of medical researchers working on the addiction cure pill as we speak.
--- End quote ---
I never said anything about pills.
--- Quote --- If they came up with it, think of how much money could be made off it.
--- End quote ---
As much money as the "treatment" industry makes now?
psy:
--- Quote from: "max" ---If religion didn't work, people wouldn't show up, and religion would cease to exist.
--- End quote ---
And I wonder why that doesn't happen.
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