Author Topic: is-it-possible-to-be-astonished-but-not-surprised?  (Read 11400 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Eliscu2

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 527
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • New World Order
    • View Profile
Re: is-it-possible-to-be-astonished-but-not-surprised?
« Reply #45 on: August 31, 2010, 03:17:12 PM »
:clown:
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 10:35:56 AM by Eliscu2 »
WELCOME TO HELL!

Offline Eliscu2

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 527
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • New World Order
    • View Profile
Re: is-it-possible-to-be-astonished-but-not-surprised?
« Reply #46 on: August 31, 2010, 03:21:16 PM »
:tup:
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 10:35:24 AM by Eliscu2 »
WELCOME TO HELL!

Offline BuzzKill

  • Posts: 1815
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: is-it-possible-to-be-astonished-but-not-surprised?
« Reply #47 on: August 31, 2010, 04:11:05 PM »
As I said, no one is disputing their right to build.
That is not the issue.

The issue is Why There? People must face what this really is, what it really means.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline BuzzKill

  • Posts: 1815
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: is-it-possible-to-be-astonished-but-not-surprised?
« Reply #48 on: August 31, 2010, 04:28:48 PM »
Leviticus and Deuteronomy have nothing to do with the problem of Islamic brutality. Christians do not stone women to death anywhere in the world. Muslims do. Christians do not saw off the heads of Jewish reporters and teachers caught teaching little girls. Muslims do. Christians do not seek to blow air-planes out of the sky b/c the passengers are not Christian.  Muslims do. Christians do not preach that murder and lying and destruction are pleasing to G-d. Muslims do.

If you'd really like to talk about the law as given to Moses and the Christian POV as understood from the teachings of Jesus and His apostles, then we can, but it has nothing to do with the topic in this thread.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline ajax13

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1615
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
Re: is-it-possible-to-be-astonished-but-not-surprised?
« Reply #49 on: August 31, 2010, 05:10:45 PM »
The only use of nuclear weapons in history was by the armed forces of the United States, killing tens of thousands of civilians at one go.  The death toll in the nuclear attacks was not as high however, as the death toll from US firebombing of Tokyo, where the death toll was approximately 100 000.  The armed forces of the United States sprayed approximately 18 million gallons of Agent Orange over the Vietnamese countryside resulting in the deaths of approximately 400 000 Vietnamese children, and producing birth defects in another 350 000.  Currently, the armed forces of the United States use depleted uranium munitions.  A tendency for significant increases in cancer and birth defects has been observed in the former Yugoslavia where these munitions were used by US forces, and in Iraq where they were also used by US forces.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"AARC will go on serving youth and families as long as it will be needed, if it keeps open to God for inspiration" Dr. F. Dean Vause Executive Director


MR. NELSON: Mr. Speaker, AADAC has been involved with
assistance in developing the program of the Alberta Adolescent
Recovery Centre since its inception originally as Kids of the
Canadian West."
Alberta Hansard, March 24, 1992

Offline Anne Bonney

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5006
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: is-it-possible-to-be-astonished-but-not-surprised?
« Reply #50 on: September 02, 2010, 02:35:26 PM »
Just as Christianity has different sects - some of which are insane - and just as Fred Phelps doesn't represent all Christians, neither does Bin Laden represent all Muslims or the Sunnis, or Shi’ites, or Sufis.

To lump all Muslims into one group is akin to lumping all Christians into Mormonism, Scientology, Christian Scientists (who let their children die because they think god will cure them).  Again, we have freedom of religion in America.  I can't stand the fact that Phelps & Co. protest Gulf War Veterans funerals, but it is his right.  It's also my right to call him a bigoted asshole.


Besides, how quickly we forget that Bin Laden and other violent Muslims were our "allies" and "friends" just a few years back.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Froderik

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7547
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • View Profile
too smart for the room
« Reply #51 on: September 02, 2010, 02:40:54 PM »
I'll attempt to simplify the whole situation so that a five year old could understand it:

1. For decades, US & Saudi Arabia engage in high-dollar illicit trade involving oil and arms
2. Money trickles down to groups of religious fanatics (oops, uh-oh)
3. proverbial shit hits the fan back in 2001
4. events are used for political fodder
5. the fires of racist hatred are fanned

Did I leave out anything?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anne Bonney

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5006
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: too smart for the room
« Reply #52 on: September 02, 2010, 02:55:27 PM »
Quote from: "Froderik"
I'll attempt to simplify the whole situation so that a five year old could understand it:

1. For decades, US & Saudi Arabia engage in high-dollar illicit trade involving oil and arms
2. Money trickles down to groups of religious fanatics (oops, uh-oh)
3. proverbial shit hits the fan back in 2001
4. events are used for political fodder
5. the fires of racist hatred are fanned

Did I leave out anything?


Nope.  That's pretty much it.  Nicely done!   :tup:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Anne Bonney

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5006
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: is-it-possible-to-be-astonished-but-not-surprised?
« Reply #53 on: September 03, 2010, 11:13:52 AM »
:roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:


http://www.colbertrally.com/




What: It's time to Restore Truthiness to America!
When: TBA (Ask Stephen Colbert)
Where: TBA
Why: America, we are at a crossroad. Truthiness in this nation is at an all-time low since the inception of the concept was founded by the great American, Stephen Colbert. In its rich history over the past five years, Truthiness has become synonymous with American values such as freedom, honor, and Taco Bell. Recently our nation has suffered a truthiness drain. In fact, untruthiness is as common as measles vaccinations that cause cancer. We as a nation have stopped relying on our emotions and gut. We need to get back to what makes this nation great. Act on impulse not fact. Stop wasting time analyzing and just take what people say on face value. Why think when someone else can think for you. It’s superficial. It’s quick. It’s American. Restore Truthiness now!

How can you help? Spread the word. Tweet, Facebook Like, Join the Facebook Group, Share, Upvote, Do whatever you have to do. Make this be tomorrow's news!

Restoring Truthiness is a true grassroots movement propelled by YOU, the citizens of the internetz. Our goal is simple: Petition Stephen Colbert to hold a Restoring Truthiness Rally for the American people.

We are looking for volunteers to help us write content and build communities. If you are interested, email support@colbertrally.com
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Anne Bonney

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5006
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: is-it-possible-to-be-astonished-but-not-surprised?
« Reply #54 on: September 03, 2010, 11:26:41 AM »
Quote from: "BuzzKill"
Well, I've not seen anyone arguing they don't have the right to build.


http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.c ... hp?ref=fpi

Gingrich: Make Ground Zero A National Battlefield To Stop The Supposed Mosque

The majority  of New Yorkers want the developers of Park51, known to its opponents as the "Ground Zero mosque," to voluntarily move the community center further from Ground Zero -- but the majority also acknowledges the developers' right to build there if they want.

Newt Gingrich doesn't feel that way. In a radio interview today, he said he wants the national government to step in and stop the developers from building the Islamic community center by whatever means necessary.  (My comments:  Newt holds much more sway than a regular civilian)

"I think the Congress has the ability to declare the area a national battlefield memorial because I think we should think of the World Trade Center as a battlefield site; this is a war," he said, apparently thinking that if Ground Zero was a national park, Park51 would be restricted from building near it.

And if that fails, he said, the state government should step in and use its considerable power to stymie the development.

"The Attorney General of New York, Andrew Cuomo, could intervene because frankly he has the ability to slow it down for decades if he wants to."

And, if the federal government doesn't intervene, and the state government declines to use its regulatory and enforcement powers to delay a private development project, Gringrich says the mayor should step in.

"I am surprised that Mayor Bloomberg said it was okay and I think that if he reconsiders it, he'll decide its not."

In fact, on whatever level, Gingrich thinks government intervention is the answer.

"There are a number of different steps that could be taken. There's no reason this has to occur and whether it's city, state, or federal there are plenty of ways for America to stop it," Gingrich said.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2010, 12:17:36 PM by Anne Bonney »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Anne Bonney

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5006
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: is-it-possible-to-be-astonished-but-not-surprised?
« Reply #55 on: September 03, 2010, 11:34:08 AM »
Inside the Beltway

By Jennifer Harper

The Washington Times

8:06 p.m., Thursday, September 2, 2010

STRONG BREW

Yeah. It's political. The bodacious, unapologetic "tea party" is ready to rumble on Sept. 12 when the National Mall will be wall to wall with those who favor less taxes, smaller government and a return to traditional American values. Unlike Glenn Beck's "Restoring Honor" folks, the tea partiers are encouraged to play hardball and bring their political signs, enthusiastic strategery and inner mettle, their sights set on swaying the midterm elections.

"Let me be clear about one thing. We are not seeking a junior partnership with the Republican Party, but rather a hostile takeover of it," says Matt Kibbe, president of FreedomWorks, a grass-roots group founded by former House Majority Leader Dick Armey, and a major organizer of the event.
 

(my comment:  grass-roots my ASS! They're funded by the Koch brothers, the Republican version of Soros) http://exiledonline.com/washington-post ... es-levine/

"Last year, we demanded leaders who will defend our freedoms and advocate sustainable economic policy. This year, we assemble to remind them that if they can't follow through, we will vote in somebody else who will," Mr. Kibbe declares.

Four days of events organized by several groups begin Thursday, highlighted by a "One Nation Back to God" worship service, a march down Pennsylvania Avenue and a rally at the U.S. Capitol on Sunday. There is a veritable army of speakers, including Mr. Armey, Rep. Mike Pence, Indiana Republican; Virginia Attorney General Kenneth T. Cuccinelli II, BigGovernment.com founder Andrew Breitbart, Conservative Hispanic Coalition director Tito Munoz, Redstate .com founder Erick Erickson, and 15 more.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Botched Programming

  • Posts: 1197
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: is-it-possible-to-be-astonished-but-not-surprised?
« Reply #56 on: September 03, 2010, 11:37:17 AM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "BuzzKill"
Well, I've not seen anyone arguing they don't have the right to build.


http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.c ... hp?ref=fpi

Gingrich: Make Ground Zero A National Battlefield To Stop The Supposed Mosque

The majority  of New Yorkers want the developers of Park51, known to its opponents as the "Ground Zero mosque," to voluntarily move the community center further from Ground Zero -- but the majority also acknowledges the developers' right to build there if they want.

Newt Gingrich doesn't feel that way. In a radio interview today, he said he wants the national government to step in and stop the developers from building the Islamic community center by whatever means necessary.  (My comments:  Newt holds much more sway than a regular civilian)

"I think the Congress has the ability to declare the area a national battlefield memorial because I think we should think of the World Trade Center as a battlefield site; this is a war," he said, apparently thinking that if Ground Zero was a national park, Park51 would be restricted from building near it.

And if that fails, he said, the state government should step in and use its considerable power to stymie the development.

"The Attorney General of New York, Andrew Cuomo, could intervene because frankly he has the ability to slow it down for decades if he wants to."

And, if the federal government doesn't intervene, and the state government declines to use its regulatory and enforcement powers to delay a private development project, Gringrich says the mayor should step in.

"I am surprised that Mayor Bloomberg said it was okay and I think that if he reconsiders it, he'll decide its not."

In fact, on whatever level, Gingrich thinks government intervention is the answer.

"There are a number of different steps that could be taken. There's no reason this has to occur and whether it's city, state, or federal there are plenty of ways for America to stop it," Gingrich said.


They even tried offering alternative locations to build the mosque on and they said they would not build one if they could not build on that site.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anne Bonney

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5006
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: is-it-possible-to-be-astonished-but-not-surprised?
« Reply #57 on: September 03, 2010, 12:51:45 PM »
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/09/ ... ing-koran/

Seven Questions for the Pastor Who Wants to Burn Copies of the Koran on 9/11

By Rev. John Rankin  (my comment:  too bad there aren't more Christian leaders like him)

Published September 03, 2010

Pastor Terry Jones of Gainesville, Florida, plans to publicly burn a copy of the Koran on September 11. The timing coordinates with the ninth anniversary of the attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon, and the present controversy over the proposed mosque near Ground Zero.

His church is small, about 50 members, but named the Dove World Outreach Center. (Yeah, great way to outreach there "pastor") He believes this is the right thing to do, posting ten reasons on his website, and having written a book called "Islam Is of the Devil."

He admitted to the New York Times in an August 26 article that he has no knowledge of the Koran: “I have no experience with it whatsoever. I only know what the Bible says.” As well, in my direct contacts with his church, I have learned that he claims God told him “to do this burning.”

Really? How well does he know the Bible? Is it biblical to be deliberately ignorant concerning a matter about which you write a book? Is he claiming to be a prophet, and if so, what will the results show?

This man, and his shrinking congregation, have assigned themselves the power to roil the Muslim world.

Imagine the Internet being flooded with pictures of a burning Koran, viewed incessantly and widely. Every time it is viewed, especially by tinderbox elements within the Muslim ummah, the potential for dangerous conflict will only grow. It could easily catalyze and bring harm to persons and property. Threats within the Muslim world are already growing. Is this the nature and purpose of the Gospel, to whom Pastor Jones claims allegiance?

First, the church should speak with one voice against such provocative folly. And second, President Obama should be quick to oppose it as well – in concern that international reactions could also threaten American interests, and, as a professing Christian who speaks of his respect for Muslim peoples, he should be especially intentional about being a peacemaker in such a context.

In my attempts at dissuasion, I have been in touch with the church staff twice. As an evangelical minister, I have sought to talk directly with Pastor Jones but to no avail. I have invited him to debate me, and the answer, repeatedly, has been no.

I have never before made such a public challenge, as I have in recent posts on my blog. I have been involved in some 200 debates and forums across the years, on a range of subjects, on university campuses, in churches and elsewhere. But this one matters especially.

Interfaith appeals and larger social pressure have their place. We see growing opposition, including the fact that the church has been refused a burn permit by the city, their insurance policy has been canceled, and the bank has pulled their mortgage note.

But Pastor Jones is still pressing forth with his agenda, claiming in an August 25 e-mail to his supporters, three times in bold: “BUT WE WILL STILL BURN KORANS.”

Pastor Jones claims to believe in the Bible, so this is where I challenge him. I do so having written a statement of affirmation, on my website, inviting biblically faithful Christians to join in: Yes to the Bible, No to the Burning of the Koran.  

In it, we affirm the full and equal dignity of all Muslim peoples in the sight of the one true Creator. We do so in affirming the complete truth of the Bible, while at the same time not affirming the nature of the Koran. In the public sphere in the United States, unalienable rights, as rooted in their historical source, are to be honored equally for peoples, Muslims likewise. This is due not to religious identity, but on the grounds of a deeper shared humanity.

Thus, to put it in political language, our partisan affirmation of the Bible leads us to affirm the full human dignity of those who believe in a text we do not believe in. This is to love God and neighbor, to fulfill the “Golden Rule” of treating others as you wish to be treated.

The ethics of the Bible are by definition proactive, reflecting the declared goodness of the order of creation, and its redemption in Jesus. The word “Gospel” means “good news,” it starts in Genesis and is fulfilled in Jesus. This is Theology 101 for Christians.

Therefore, we who are biblically faithful Christians always seek to be proactive in our actions toward all people. The Gospel empowers us to give to those who would take from us, love those who would hate us, and bless those who would curse us. And as Jesus said, “For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.”

The poet, Heinrich Heine, a German Jew who converted to Christianity, wrote in 1820: “Where books are burned, they will, in the end, burn people, too.” Of course, those words were prophetic of what was to come, a century later, in Nazi Germany.

So, here are seven questions for Pastor Jones:

1. How can his proposed action be other than one of reactive fear, not one of proactive confidence? It is foreign to the Gospel.

2. Is not the burning of the Koran seen by Muslim peoples as bad news, and thus a hindrance to Muslims grasping the Good News in the lives of Christians?

3. Is not the burning of the Koran an act of accusation and condemnation? The name of Satan in the Hebrew (ha’satan) means “the accuser” or “the slanderer.”

4. Does not the burning of the Koran thus burn Muslims in their very souls?

5. Does not the burning of the Koran by professing Christians thus slander the name of Jesus Christ?

6. What happens if people are killed, injured or persecuted as a result, if properties are burned or damaged, due to an inflamed Muslim world as images of a burning Koran flood the Internet? Who will be ultimately responsible?

7. Jesus, in the face of his enemies during Passover Week, embraced their toughest questions in public assembly. Is not the burning of the Koran the opposite of such confidence in communication?

For Christians who embrace the proactive confidence of the Gospel, we seek out the toughest questions from Muslims in public assembly, among equals in the sight of the one true Creator, where the Bible and the Koran can be looked at side by side.

Does Pastor Jones have enough confidence in his position to be publicly accountable to such questions? Or is he a prisoner of his own reactionary fears? My offer to debate – in a sober and gracious manner – remains on the table.




The Gandhi quote bears repeating:

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. ~~ Mohandas Gandhi
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline BuzzKill

  • Posts: 1815
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: is-it-possible-to-be-astonished-but-not-surprised?
« Reply #58 on: September 03, 2010, 02:35:38 PM »
Ghandi was right. This is a point I often make myself. This is also why no one can be redeemed by their own merit.

Back to the topic at hand - the Ground Zero Mosqe:

Newt acknowledges that as things now stand the thing can be built. He is proposing making changes to stop it. And this guy: http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJQ4bwGPRuk points out that there are limits to rights with the second amendment the example.  He also explains why this thing is viewed with such upset by those who understand what it is and why they want it there.

What ever their many faults, a Christian will generally do their best to explain the truth about their faith as they understand it. So will a Jew.

Please Google: Islam+taqqiya and Islame+Abrogation

And please allow me to further repeat myself:

Quote from: "BuzzKill"
No one is disputing they have a right to build. The city counsel did have a right to stop its going up on that spot if they felt the building to be demolished was of historical significance. They said it is not. So, they can build. The governor or mayor or president have no say in the matter. All they can do is express an opinion which they have done, and which I and many others find to be disturbingly ignorant and politically correct to a ridiculous degree.

We have got to get real with regard to what Islam is. We have got to understand this monstrosity is an declaration of Victory; an out-post and command center in the war against the infidel.
http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2010/08/g ... osque.html

Liberal America can not afford to be warm and fuzzy on the issue of Islam. Cold, hard, very unpleasant facts must be faced. They must admit and acknowledge the concept of taqqiya and Abrogation and what these concepts mean for us, the Infidel, when dealing with them - the Islamic faithful.

For you ajax: "THE FACTS: As noted above, it is not unreasonable to characterize the site as being “at” Ground Zero, given that it was one of the buildings damaged in the 9/11 attack, is within the zone over which the remains of the murdered were scattered and has been called by the promoter of the initiative himself “the Ground Zero mosque.”

http://bigjournalism.com/fgaffney/2010/ ... ro-mosque/

see also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQOCcx5V9RI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdX1qpCt ... re=related

and just for fun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmffgIqlAYA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI9GLSGy ... r_embedded

Finely I'd like to suggest: Read the following, and if it seems reasonable to you sign it -

http://www.groundzerodeclaration.org/th ... claration/  


All this said, perhaps I should be clearer that my problem isn't with people but the totalitarian ideology that horribly subjugates girls and women and demands the bloody murder of me and mine.

I view most of the population of the lands controlled by this viciously oppressive ideology as victims of it. I applaud those who sacrifice their lives attempting to educate the girls and in general bring access to alternative ideas to the populations. I have not the courage to do as much myself - but I do have just enough to resist it's growing influence in my own nation and culture despite the inevitability of being labeled a racist and/or hate-monger.  I am very grateful that this is the worst I can reasonably expect and hope it will always be so.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anne Bonney

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5006
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: is-it-possible-to-be-astonished-but-not-surprised?
« Reply #59 on: September 03, 2010, 03:03:42 PM »
Quote from: "BuzzKill"
Ghandi was right. This is a point I often make myself. This is also why no one can be redeemed by their own merit.

Back to the topic at hand - the Ground Zero Mosqe:

Newt acknowledges that as things now stand the thing can be built. He is proposing making changes to stop it. And this guy: http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJQ4bwGPRuk points out that there are limits to rights with the second amendment the example.  He also explains why this thing is viewed with such upset by those who understand what it is and why they want it there.

What ever their many faults, a Christian will generally do their best to explain the truth about their faith as they understand it. So will a Jew.

Please Google: Islam+taqqiya and Islame+Abrogation

And please allow me to further repeat myself:

Quote from: "BuzzKill"
No one is disputing they have a right to build. The city counsel did have a right to stop its going up on that spot if they felt the building to be demolished was of historical significance. They said it is not. So, they can build. The governor or mayor or president have no say in the matter. All they can do is express an opinion which they have done, and which I and many others find to be disturbingly ignorant and politically correct to a ridiculous degree.

We have got to get real with regard to what Islam is. We have got to understand this monstrosity is an declaration of Victory; an out-post and command center in the war against the infidel.
http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2010/08/g ... osque.html

Liberal America can not afford to be warm and fuzzy on the issue of Islam. Cold, hard, very unpleasant facts must be faced. They must admit and acknowledge the concept of taqqiya and Abrogation and what these concepts mean for us, the Infidel, when dealing with them - the Islamic faithful.

For you ajax: "THE FACTS: As noted above, it is not unreasonable to characterize the site as being “at” Ground Zero, given that it was one of the buildings damaged in the 9/11 attack, is within the zone over which the remains of the murdered were scattered and has been called by the promoter of the initiative himself “the Ground Zero mosque.”

http://bigjournalism.com/fgaffney/2010/ ... ro-mosque/

see also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQOCcx5V9RI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdX1qpCt ... re=related

and just for fun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmffgIqlAYA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI9GLSGy ... r_embedded

Finely I'd like to suggest: Read the following, and if it seems reasonable to you sign it -

http://www.groundzerodeclaration.org/th ... claration/  


All this said, perhaps I should be clearer that my problem isn't with people but the totalitarian ideology that horribly subjugates girls and women and demands the bloody murder of me and mine.

I view most of the population of the lands controlled by this viciously oppressive ideology as victims of it. I applaud those who sacrifice their lives attempting to educate the girls and in general bring access to alternative ideas to the populations. I have not the courage to do as much myself - but I do have just enough to resist it's growing influence in my own nation and culture despite the inevitability of being labeled a racist and/or hate-monger.  I am very grateful that this is the worst I can reasonably expect and hope it will always be so.


I understand what you're saying, but as I said before....we have freedom of speech and religion....even if we find it repugnant, like the KKK.   What right do we have to ban a religious building?  We absolutely have a right to protest it and make our feelings known, but to attempt to get the government to stop it goes against the Constitution and Bill of Rights.  It goes against what this country was founded upon.  I'm not happy about the location, but I recognize the right to build it where they want as long as it is within the bounds of the law.   :peace:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa