Author Topic: The Muslim Hijacking of Ground Zero  (Read 22526 times)

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Offline Froderik

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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: The Muslim Hijacking of Ground Zero
« Reply #91 on: September 10, 2010, 12:35:46 PM »
http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 47,00.html

The Fight for Sept. 11
Terror Anniversary Becomes American Day of Hate

By Gregor Peter Schmitz in Washington

Sept. 11 used to be a day when America came together -- party politics took a backseat to reconciliation. Not so this year. From the Muslim prayer room at ground zero to Koran burnings in Florida to a certain gathering in Alaska, the anniversary of the terrorist attacks this year threatens to become a day of hate.

The open letter was born of a desire simply to mourn. The signatures on the letter included the father of Jonathan Ielpi, a firefighter who died in the ruins of the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001; the sister-in-law of Myra Aronson, who was on American Airlines Flight 11 when it was hijacked en route from Boston to Los Angeles and crashed into the North Tower of the World Trade Center; and Mary Ellen Salamone, wife of John Salamone, who was at work on the 104th floor of the North Tower at the time of the terrorist assault.

Together with many others also mourning loved ones, they wrote: "To hold rallies of any nature on Sept. 11 would be inappropriate and disrespectful to all of us who see 9/11 as a day outside of politics."

The letter was targeted at activists who want to use this Sept. 11 of all days, to protest the planned construction of a mosque -- actually an Islamic cultural center with a prayer room -- near Ground Zero.

The open letter didn't have much of an effect on the anti-mosque demonstrators. "We need to be at Ground Zero, Sept. 11, 2010, now more than ever," they insist, well aware that choosing the date for a protest is a good way to guarantee headlines.

Counter-demonstrators have announced plans to defend the cultural center just as vociferously -- they too know the advantages of protesting on the anniversary of the attacks. The victims' family members have written them too to ask that they refrain from demonstrating.

A Day of Fighting

The back and forth makes it clear: The day of remembrance has become a day of fighting and a stage for political battles. Not just in New York, but throughout the United States.

Far south of the city, Terry Jones, pastor of the Dove World Outreach Center, a tiny evangelical congregation in Gainesville, Florida, is planning to publicly burn copies of the Koran on Saturday, on a pyre that will blaze from 6 p.m. to 9 p.m. -- television's prime time.

General David Petraeus, commander of the NATO troops in Afghanistan, has implored the pastor not to proceed, for fear that it will sow hate among Muslims. Petraeus says American troops could be jeopardized as a result. Jones, though, has yet to back down, insisting that the Koran is the work of the devil.

Far to the northwest in Alaska, meanwhile, former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin and right-wing TV zealot Glenn Beck are planning a large-scale event on Sept. 11. They want to gather in a hall in Anchorage to celebrate America -- precisely on the anniversary of the attacks.

Harsh Tones

Prime tickets for the event cost well over $100 (€78), but it promises to be a good show. Perhaps Beck will take the opportunity to reiterate his doubts that Barack Obama is a true Christian, playing on the widely-held misconception that the president is really a Muslim. Twenty percent of Americans have fallen for the fallacy, according to recent surveys. Obama opponents like to reinforce the belief by carefully referring to the president by his full name: Barack Hussein Obama.

The harsh tones dominating the anniversary are new. Sept. 11 has long been a day of reconciliation. The country drew closer together in the immediate aftermath of the attacks. Even New Yorkers, generally known for their brusqueness, were a little gentler with one another in those first days. President George W. Bush declared that the attacks had caused the nation "to grieve together" and "to stand together."

Party lines continued to dissolve on the anniversary of the attacks for many years afterwards. Even during the bitter 2008 election campaign, rival presidential candidates John McCain and Barack Obama made a joint appearance at Ground Zero on September 11. Political battles would have to wait a day.

The same held true for hatred toward Muslims. In the days following the first anniversary of the attacks, Bush paid a demonstrative visit to a mosque, emphasizing that the US did not want to wage war against Islam.

What Happened to Reconciliation?

American politicians seemed determined not to let the attacks undo the successful integration of the country's millions of Muslim inhabitants. Skepticism toward the religion certainly grew, but the fact that American Muslims are well integrated cannot be denied. Hardly anyone is bothered by the country's many Islamic schools and Americans generally have little use for the kinds of headscarf and mosque construction debates that periodically engulf Europe. Even American security experts see the threat of terrorism more in Europe than among Muslims in their own country.

This tone has prevailed through subsequent commemorations and debates. Lately, though, the focus on reconciliation is threatening to disappear. Not only has the number of Americans who believe that Obama is Muslim gone up since the election campaign, and so has the amount of people who think it would be a bad thing if he were. There have also been more ominous occurrences: A Muslim taxi driver was stabbed this summer and there were protests in front of American mosques.

A number of Muslim organizations in the US have announced they won't celebrate the end of Ramadan, the month of fasting, on Saturday as extensively as they usually would, since the holiday coincides with Sept. 11 this year. They fear their religious festivities could be misconstrued as celebrations of the 2001 terrorist attacks.

A War at Home


Further cause for concern for such groups is the depths to which political debate has sunk in the US, with Tea Party activists setting the tone. This ultra-conservative movement wants to return the country to the ideas of its white and mostly Christian founders. Tea Party extremists are currently the driving force in the Republican Party, and have Democrats on the defensive two months before important midterm elections.

It is a political landscape with no room for nuance. Anyone who exhibits tolerance is suspect -- Obama's apparent sympathy toward the Islamic cultural center near Ground Zero sparked immediate protests and the president quickly backpedaled.

Obama's advisors no longer want him to travel to New York on Sept. 11, so great is the concern that the president's appearance could trigger further debates over the "mosque at Ground Zero." The politics of polarization have become stronger than acts of remembrance.

Meanwhile, the president has just celebrated the withdrawal of American combat troops from Iraq -- marking the beginning of the end to perhaps the worst overreaction to the Sept. 11 attacks. Nine years on, the war abroad seems to be winding down.

The war at home, though, may be just beginning.
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Offline BuzzKill

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Offline ajax13

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Re: The Muslim Hijacking of Ground Zero
« Reply #93 on: September 10, 2010, 04:16:40 PM »
Hilarious Buzzy!  You're posting propaganda in the "Tacitus' Realm" forum, and what's in your propaganda?
"It is not a political rally

PLEASE BRING FLAGS

Hosting the rally are Pamela Geller, the popular blogger and columnist who publishes the acclaimed AtlasShrugs.com blog and executive director of FDI and SIOA; and SIOA associate director Robert Spencer, the bestselling author and director of JihadWatch.org. Geller is the author (with Spencer) of The Post-American Presidency: The Obama Administration's War on America (foreword by Ambassador John Bolton), published by Simon & Schuster"

Good thing it's not political Buzzy.
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Offline Stonewall

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Re: The Muslim Hijacking of Ground Zero
« Reply #94 on: September 10, 2010, 04:43:21 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,716547,00.html


This year is certainly different than others have been.

Thanks goes to the Imam who insists on a mosque at ground zero.
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Offline ajax13

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Re: The Muslim Hijacking of Ground Zero
« Reply #95 on: September 10, 2010, 05:20:26 PM »
Stony, you are throwback to the old Vaudeville acts, work, work, work.  Tremendously funny when your character feigns total ignorance of the fact that the facility in question, Cordoba House, is of course not being constructed at "ground zero".  Your character repeats that false assertion as it is loaded and evokes an intended emotional response, rather than a rational analysis.  And then to top if off with a meaningless vaguery is the piece de resistance in your caricature of a propagandizing hate-monger.  "This year is certainly different than others have been."  Devoid of any substantive meaning, and you lay it in there as if it's the very definition of informed comment.   I for one would like to see more comedians like you who are prepared to put something on the line when they do a bit.
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Offline BuzzKill

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Re: The Muslim Hijacking of Ground Zero
« Reply #96 on: September 10, 2010, 05:42:45 PM »
I was posting the tribute video which is from Atlas Shrugs. I happen to have considerable agreement with Pamela Geller of Atlas Shrugs, but that was not the point I wanted to make. I just wanted to share what I think is a moving tribute to the victims of the September 11 attack against Americans by devout Muslims. Remembering them is not a political statement, even if the memorial is produced by a political blogger.
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Offline Stonewall

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Re: The Muslim Hijacking of Ground Zero
« Reply #97 on: September 10, 2010, 06:07:43 PM »
Quote from: "ajax13"
Stony, you are throwback to the old Vaudeville acts, work, work, work.  Tremendously funny when your character feigns total ignorance of the fact that the facility in question, Cordoba House, is of course not being constructed at "ground zero".  Your character repeats that false assertion as it is loaded and evokes an intended emotional response, rather than a rational analysis.  And then to top if off with a meaningless vaguery is the piece de resistance in your caricature of a propagandizing hate-monger.  "This year is certainly different than others have been."  Devoid of any substantive meaning, and you lay it in there as if it's the very definition of informed comment.   I for one would like to see more comedians like you who are prepared to put something on the line when they do a bit.


It's two blocks from Ground Zero and part of an airplane actually landed there.

It's not funny or ignorant, or anything but truthful that this is a Ground Zero Mosque.

What I would like to see is people actually put something on the line. Tell the truth. Of course if I were being against some other thing... iyt would not matter. It's being against Islam that matters. If I was a Muslim and I acted, of course I'd be excused.

It's like we are dealing with the mentally retarded.

"Oh, you are Muslim?.., No problem, say whatever you want, do whatever you want... I'll blame America with you, and criticize those who would ever say anything bad about you"
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Offline ajax13

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Re: The Muslim Hijacking of Ground Zero
« Reply #98 on: September 10, 2010, 07:05:59 PM »
That is side-splitting stuff, Stony.  Your character says that the mosque is being built at ground-zero, and then completely contradicts that statement and admits that the building is a couple of blocks away.  So your untenable claim about the mosque being objectionable because it's at ground zero is replaced with the claim that part of an airplane landed there.  
That's part of what is fascinating about this particular propaganda exercise.  Because it's a propaganda exercise, it's rooted entirely in arousing a desired emotional response, rather than a reasoned conclusion based on observation and analysis.  Good work, as always, Stony.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"AARC will go on serving youth and families as long as it will be needed, if it keeps open to God for inspiration" Dr. F. Dean Vause Executive Director


MR. NELSON: Mr. Speaker, AADAC has been involved with
assistance in developing the program of the Alberta Adolescent
Recovery Centre since its inception originally as Kids of the
Canadian West."
Alberta Hansard, March 24, 1992

Offline Stonewall

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Re: The Muslim Hijacking of Ground Zero
« Reply #99 on: September 10, 2010, 07:18:59 PM »
Quote from: "ajax13"
That is side-splitting stuff, Stony.  Your character says that the mosque is being built at ground-zero, and then completely contradicts that statement and admits that the building is a couple of blocks away.  So your untenable claim about the mosque being objectionable because it's at ground zero is replaced with the claim that part of an airplane landed there.  
That's part of what is fascinating about this particular propaganda exercise.  Because it's a propaganda exercise, it's rooted entirely in arousing a desired emotional response, rather than a reasoned conclusion based on observation and analysis.  Good work, as always, Stony.


Emotional is all you can deliver.

On 9/11 the buildings fell straight down. Basically they fell in their own footprints. That does not mean that Ground Zero, in reality, ends at that site.

What do Muslims do when they conquer a people? They build a Mosque. In Israel they built a Mosque where the Jewish Temple was located. In Turkey they took over the greatest Christian Church. In Spain, the same.

You can call me any names you want, you can describe me any way you want... what you are incapable of doing is telling the truth about that which you defend.

Defend Islam... Do it.

You cannot.

I feel your pain. It must be hard to just attack with absolutely no knowledge whatsoever. It would be hard for me...
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Offline BuzzKill

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Re: The Muslim Hijacking of Ground Zero
« Reply #100 on: September 10, 2010, 07:28:34 PM »
They call it the Mosque at Ground Zero. We call it the Ground Zero Mosque. Some have tried to reframe the debate, calling  it the multi-cultural Community Center near Ground Zero. No one seriously attempts to separate this thing from Ground Zero, and no one seriously believes it is in any way multi-cultural.  

They have no interest in building it anywhere else because that would defeat the point of building it. No one seriously disputes this. The debate is what the point is. WHY THERE? They know why but must not say. We know why but no one listens. They lie and the lie is pleasant, while the truth is deeply offensive and unpleasant - so people embrace the lie.
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Offline Stonewall

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Re: The Muslim Hijacking of Ground Zero
« Reply #101 on: September 10, 2010, 07:34:03 PM »
Quote from: "BuzzKill"
They call it the Mosque at Ground Zero. We call it the Ground Zero Mosque. Some have tried to reframe the debate, calling  it the multi-cultural Community Center near Ground Zero. No one seriously attempts to separate this thing from Ground Zero, and no one seriously believes it is in any way multi-cultural.  

They have no interest in building it anywhere else because that would defeat the point of building it. No one seriously disputes this. The debate is what the point is. WHY THERE? They know why but must not say. We know why but no one listens. They lie and the lie is pleasant, while the truth is deeply offensive and unpleasant - so people embrace the lie.


Yep...
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Offline ajax13

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Re: The Muslim Hijacking of Ground Zero
« Reply #102 on: September 10, 2010, 08:15:34 PM »
Who is they, Buzzy?  The Cordoba House is not being constructed at ground zero.  There was no statement by anyone involved in the Cordoba initiative claiming that the construction of the facility was a statement of triumph by "Islam" with regard to the terrorist attacks.  That identity for the project was formulated by the people who made up the fake issue.  So the building is not at ground zero, and the people behind it have never stated that it was being constructed as a celebration of the success of the attacks.  Two lies spouted over and over again by propagandists.
The why and where of the construction are both falsely characterized by propagandists to manipulate people.  Folks don't like when you lie to them, Buzzy.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"AARC will go on serving youth and families as long as it will be needed, if it keeps open to God for inspiration" Dr. F. Dean Vause Executive Director


MR. NELSON: Mr. Speaker, AADAC has been involved with
assistance in developing the program of the Alberta Adolescent
Recovery Centre since its inception originally as Kids of the
Canadian West."
Alberta Hansard, March 24, 1992

Offline Stonewall

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Re: The Muslim Hijacking of Ground Zero
« Reply #103 on: September 11, 2010, 02:32:22 AM »
Quote from: "ajax13"
Who is they, Buzzy?  The Cordoba House is not being constructed at ground zero.  There was no statement by anyone involved in the Cordoba initiative claiming that the construction of the facility was a statement of triumph by "Islam" with regard to the terrorist attacks.  That identity for the project was formulated by the people who made up the fake issue.  So the building is not at ground zero, and the people behind it have never stated that it was being constructed as a celebration of the success of the attacks.  Two lies spouted over and over again by propagandists.
The why and where of the construction are both falsely characterized by propagandists to manipulate people.  Folks don't like when you lie to them, Buzzy.


Of course it is constructed at Ground Zero. And, don't pretend that you care.

What do you know about Cordoba?

Forget the Mosque, who cares?

Defend a mosque, anywhere. Defend Mecca.  Defend Muhammad. A murderous, Insane, killer, rapist, pedophile.

There you go...
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Offline ajax13

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Re: The Muslim Hijacking of Ground Zero
« Reply #104 on: September 11, 2010, 01:45:51 PM »
Stony, you are incapable of any honest discourse whatsoever.  I have never once defended a mosque, nor a murderer, nor Mecca, nor any pedophiles, murderers, killers, nor rapists.  Insanity is a legal term and I'm neither lawyer nor judg, so I haven' t had the opportunity to defend that group either.  You are a liar to your very core.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"AARC will go on serving youth and families as long as it will be needed, if it keeps open to God for inspiration" Dr. F. Dean Vause Executive Director


MR. NELSON: Mr. Speaker, AADAC has been involved with
assistance in developing the program of the Alberta Adolescent
Recovery Centre since its inception originally as Kids of the
Canadian West."
Alberta Hansard, March 24, 1992