A Thought for Pro-WWASP Parents Who's Child was Sent for Dru

[Carey]

Do you know why teenagers use drugs?  THEY USE DRUGS BECAUSE THEY WORK!

They use drugs to get high, to "feel good."  They use drugs because they have emotional issues and they are in pain.  The drugs help to cover up the pain so they can "feel good" again.  They use drugs because they are bored with life and the drugs take away that boredum making they "feel good."  They take drugs because their friends take drugs and they want to fit in and feel like they belong and are accepted by their peers making them "feel good" about themselves.  THEY TAKE DRUGS BECAUSE THEY WORK.

Does the fact that teens take drugs because they work, to make them "feel good," make it right?  Of cource not.


Why did you send your child to a "behavior modification" program?  YOU SENT THEM THERE IN ORDER TO CHANGE THEIR BEHAVIOR BECAUSE IT WORKS!

The program used deprivation to change your childs behavior because it works. The program isolated your child from all forms of emotional support and this caused a change in their behavior because it works. The program controlled your childs diet to the point that it induces changed behavior because it works.  The program restricted your childs movements ie. like crossing his/her leggs, limiting eye contact, limited talking and other types of movement restricitons until a certain level is reached which helped to change his/her behavior because it works. The program used manipulation of your childs mind through coercion (domination and restraint) to change your childs behavior becuase it works.  THE PROGRAM USED THESE FORMS OF BEHAVIOR MODIFICATION BECAUSE THEY WORK!

Does the fact that these types of techniques work to change behavior make them right?  Of course not!


[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-09-27 09:17 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-09-27 09:17 ]

[Carey]

:flame:

[Anonymous]

Carey, I would take that analogy a bit further...

kids use drugs because they work-- AT FIRST!!!!

same with behavior mod-- it works only AT FIRST...
there's no evidence that it produces lasting behavior change any more effectively than time itself.

in the long run, while the majority tend to escape both drugs and behavior mod with few if any scars, a significant minority is severely and some permanently harmed.

The irony is that behavior mod can induce post-traumatic stress disorder, which is known to

*double* the odds that a drug user will become an addict.

So, if you're putting a kid in for "prevention" because you are worried that the drug use might get worse, you are actually increasing the odds that it will get worse, not better.  And this holds true not only for those who get PTSD-- there's a bunch of research which finds that teens
with low level drug problems kept with those with severe problems are more likely to get worse than those who are not exposed to those with severe problems.

[Carey]

Anon, I agree.  The analogy can be taken a step further.  I just want to be clear on my point.  

My point being, JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING WORKS, DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN IT IS RIGHT!

And yes

The irony is that behavior mod can induce post-traumatic stress disorder, which is known to

*double* the odds that a drug user will become an addict.

the user who is using because of emotional or physical pain, will be at a higher risk after experiencing a "behavior modification" program such as Dundee.  

[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-09-28 16:37 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-09-28 16:53 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-09-28 16:54 ]

[Antigen]

On 2003-09-27 14:38:00, Anonymous wrote:




same with behavior mod-- it works only AT FIRST...

there's no evidence that it produces lasting behavior change any more effectively than time itself.



in the long run, while the majority tend to escape both drugs and behavior mod with few if any scars, a significant minority is severely and some permanently harmed.

I would disagree with this. I've seen lots of evidence to support the idea that BM produces long term changes in behavior and personality. Just read through the various survivor forums on this and other servers. Notice any commonalities? Are we a bunch of trucculant, paranoid, vindictive assholes or what? Coincidence? I think not! I'd say a small minority are able to just let it roll off and go back to normality. Most of us are fundamentally and permanently changed by the experience.

"I predict, Sir, that you will die either by hanging or of some vile disease."
 "That all depends, sir, upon whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."
--Disraeli to Gladstone

[Anonymous]

Most of us are fundamentally and permanently changed by the experience.

Whether the change is permanent or not, whether the change is good or bad, still does not make the methods used in 'behavior mofdification" programs right.

Amen Sister!

[Anonymous]

Antigen, what i meant was that BM doesn't produce lasting *positive* behavior change in my earlier anon post-- which is what people typically mean when they say something "works" or "is effective."
If it "worked" you should see lasting recovery from drug abuse, for example, which you don't.

Also, thankfully, with any traumatic experience-- even the most traumatic experiences possible-- the majority of people ultimately recover.

That's not a recommendation of traumatic experience, but just to say that people-- like you yourself, quite obviously-- are resilient and can overcome even horrific stuff.

Again, that's not to say it's OK because people get over it, just to say that there's lots of hope for survivors.

[Socrates]

I was in Casa by the Sea (Mexico) from November 30, 2001 till i was transfereed to Cross Creak (Utah) after being in casa for 10 months, I graduated Cross Creak in November of 2003. I was in WWASP programs for 23 months.

  It worked for me and i would reccomend it to anyone who has a teen in trouble.

  I want to stress that i am not saying that the abuse didn't happen. I think it did, and that was imoral and wrong. Things like this happen in public schools, at work, everywere. That doesn't make it ok but put it in perspective. The problem isn't with WWASP the problem is with our society.

  WWasp saved my life, I am happy and am living a good life.

[Deborah]

Yep, two 'wrongs' don't make a right.
Teens learn to ACT in order to avoid consequences.
And, how many of the kids in programs had life-threatening drug problems to begin with?
Of the 7 or 8 I personally know, the answer is 0. None even smoked pot. How many took drugs and/or smoked pot after enduring the experimental behavior modification program? 4.

http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 50&forum=9

http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 11&forum=9

[Anonymous]

"WWASP saved my life"

Right there in black and white. Look on any forum be it the straight, seed, elan or whatever. Once in a while this will be posted.

Proof that the Washing works, it just doesn't have the exact desired affect they thought it would.

The affect is it produces people that as a group are confrontational, needy, untrusting, and have trouble socializing in normal society.

The drug rehab part....oh yeah. These people seem to use at a much higher rate after leaving, and I believe that is to help kill another negative affect of cultic mind control, feelings of worthlessness in normal society after detaching from their cult.

The problem is these places further alienate these kids from society except for the very few that buy it hook line and sinker for long periods of time, and those poor souls have a secret to keep and a possible shocking future awakening to the fact that they have been living a lie, a product of how someone else envisioned them to be.

Yeah, this stuff works all right, it just doesn't work they way it is sold to work. IF ever there was a case for product liablity, it is against these places.