Author Topic: What Type of Kids "Succeeded" in Behrens Study?  (Read 6191 times)

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Offline Troll Control

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Re: What Type of Kids "Succeeded" in Behrens Study?
« Reply #75 on: January 15, 2011, 01:38:21 PM »
Several of these programs now take kids straight from courts and jails.  They are far less picky than they used to be because they are going under and getting shut down for abuse pretty often now.  Ridge Creek is a recent example that takes both severely disturbed and criminal youths.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: What Type of Kids "Succeeded" in Behrens Study?
« Reply #76 on: January 15, 2011, 01:56:56 PM »
Quote from: "Troll Control"
Several of these programs now take kids straight from courts and jails.  They are far less picky than they used to be because they are going under and getting shut down for abuse pretty often now.  Ridge Creek is a recent example that takes both severely disturbed and criminal youths.

Someone has to take these kids.  These programs need to invest more in oversight, medication and discipline than they do academics.  Whereas the schools which take kids who are not violent can allocate more funds towards academics and less to oversight.  So I think we need to look at each program individually.



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Offline Troll Control

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Re: What Type of Kids "Succeeded" in Behrens Study?
« Reply #77 on: January 15, 2011, 02:00:16 PM »
Ridge Creek School takes criminal and disturbed kids.  It says it's a school just like the ones you are talking about.  They will generally take any kid whose parents can pay.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: What Type of Kids "Succeeded" in Behrens Study?
« Reply #78 on: January 15, 2011, 02:03:53 PM »
Quote from: "Troll Control"
Ridge Creek School takes criminal and disturbed kids.  It says it's a school just like the ones you are talking about.  They will generally take any kid whose parents can pay.

I think the state defines them as taking mentally disturbed kids.  Even the kids whose parents pay out of pocket are violent offenders.  They recently had two girls who attacked a staff person, stole a car etc.  There are many programs which will not take these kinds of kids.  Places like this need to allocate more towards security and less towards academics if this is the type of kids they are going to attract.



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Offline Troll Control

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Re: What Type of Kids "Succeeded" in Behrens Study?
« Reply #79 on: January 15, 2011, 02:30:06 PM »
Most of these "schools" take violent and disturbed kids.  Some say they don't, but they do.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: What Type of Kids "Succeeded" in Behrens Study?
« Reply #80 on: January 15, 2011, 02:59:39 PM »
Quote from: "Troll Control"
Most of these "schools" take violent and disturbed kids.  Some say they don't, but they do.


I disagree, most schools are very selective on which type of kids they take.  Typically the schools which take the more violent kids tend to take kids from the state also.  The better schools can afford to be a bit more choosy and take only non violent kids and still fill their beds with clientele who pay out of pocket.



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Offline Dysfunction Junction

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Re: What Type of Kids "Succeeded" in Behrens Study?
« Reply #81 on: January 15, 2011, 03:31:00 PM »
Any evidence to support this statement?  Your word is no good here so you'll have to provide some proof.  No offense, but you do work for a program.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: What Type of Kids "Succeeded" in Behrens Study?
« Reply #82 on: January 15, 2011, 03:37:37 PM »
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Any evidence to support this statement?  Your word is no good here so you'll have to provide some proof.  No offense, but you do work for a program.

What I typically do is to just not believe the source or look it up myself.  Its a discussion, DJ, you dont have to believe all or any of what I say and I can discard what you say.  This is one of the strengths of an open forum.  I am sorry that you are taking every post so pesonally, try to enjoy the discussion.



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Offline Dysfunction Junction

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Re: What Type of Kids "Succeeded" in Behrens Study?
« Reply #83 on: January 15, 2011, 04:07:06 PM »
Ok.  You just made it up.  So long as we know it.  Thanks.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: What Type of Kids "Succeeded" in Behrens Study?
« Reply #84 on: January 15, 2011, 05:36:19 PM »
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Ok.  You just made it up.  So long as we know it.  Thanks.

No tantrums, DJ, I just happen to disagree with your stated opinions on certain issues, don't take it so personally.  



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Offline Dysfunction Junction

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Re: What Type of Kids "Succeeded" in Behrens Study?
« Reply #85 on: January 16, 2011, 06:17:29 AM »
Still no evidence, I see.  As long as we all know you just fabricated the information we can move forward with the discussion knowing that.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: What Type of Kids "Succeeded" in Behrens Study?
« Reply #86 on: January 17, 2011, 07:19:27 PM »
Here is another fact:


Of the 155 males who completed the YSR at admission and discharge, 81% of
adolescent males reported some amount or degree of symptom reduction.


Page 9 :

Residential Treatment Outcome-Study



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Offline Dysfunction Junction

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Re: What Type of Kids "Succeeded" in Behrens Study?
« Reply #87 on: January 18, 2011, 06:51:19 AM »
Quote from: "Troll Control"
Quote from: "Behrens Study"
These final results indicated that adolescents who
had lower levels of psycho-social symptoms at admission (adolescent report), the absence of a
mood disorder, a positive experience in the program, a sense that their problems had improved,
and parents who were satisfied with the program were more likely to report positive outcomes at
discharge from residential treatment.

Well, there goes the "programs help kids with severe problems - too severe for local treatment" angle.

The kids who self-reported to have improved had no severe problems to begin with, no mood disorders and parents who were satisfied with their purchase.

So, the more or less "normal teens" showed improvement but the ones with real problems were pulled by their parents because they weren't improving or dropped from the program because they were accepted even though the program had no ability to help them (26% of participants).

Also keep in mind there has never been any follow up to determine if any of these results were lasting.  Previous research has shown severe degradation of results beginning immediately after discharge.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: What Type of Kids "Succeeded" in Behrens Study?
« Reply #88 on: January 18, 2011, 07:32:42 AM »
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Quote from: "Troll Control"
Quote from: "Behrens Study"
These final results indicated that adolescents who
had lower levels of psycho-social symptoms at admission (adolescent report), the absence of a
mood disorder, a positive experience in the program, a sense that their problems had improved,
and parents who were satisfied with the program were more likely to report positive outcomes at
discharge from residential treatment.

Well, there goes the "programs help kids with severe problems - too severe for local treatment" angle.

The kids who self-reported to have improved had no severe problems to begin with, no mood disorders and parents who were satisfied with their purchase.

So, the more or less "normal teens" showed improvement but the ones with real problems were pulled by their parents because they weren't improving or dropped from the program because they were accepted even though the program had no ability to help them (26% of participants).

Kids with severe problems do not do very well in therapeutic boarding schools, if the schools can do a better job screening the kids prior to acceptance we will see these success rates go from the present 86% up into the 90% level.  This would benefit the children and the parents.



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Offline Dysfunction Junction

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Re: What Type of Kids "Succeeded" in Behrens Study?
« Reply #89 on: January 18, 2011, 11:01:26 AM »
Quote from: "Troll Control"
If you look at the data, the kids who had to be "brought further long" were dropped from the program or pulled by their parents because the level of care they were sold wasn't evident.  This accounts for 26% of the kids surveyed.  3% also completed the program but got worse.  

Only 31% (compared with 60-80% of those in traditional treatment who were diagnosed with real mental issues) showed statistically relevent improvement (2 standard deviations of self-reported change) and those kids were the one's without any real problems.  97% had a primary presenting problem of "rule breaking."

In other words, these kids never needed to be placed.  Aspen's "success rate" is two and a half times lower than traditional treatment even though the vast majority of the kids had no real issues (74%).  

Aspen got rid of the kids with real problems (8%) and kept the ones who were easy to deal with, even though most didn't need to be there (74%).  So they do keep kids that don't need to be there at all, provided they don't require any help and they just collect the checks.

Very interesting revelations when you start to drill down into the reported data.
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"Compassion is the basis of morality."

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