Author Topic: LGATs/Encounter groups/Confrontational "therapy"  (Read 17302 times)

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Offline DannyB II

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Re: LGATs/Encounter groups/Confrontational "therapy"
« Reply #45 on: June 17, 2010, 06:45:08 PM »
Quote
Quote from: "Paul St. John"
SUCKs shIT Says:


Quote
Yes I'm serious. It's not possible to force somebody to talk about things they don't want to talk about. They can just refuse all attempts to help them, and then maybe they can find fornits and post about how they were abused, etc.

You re a fucking loser.  

Paul

I bet you felt justified to verbally attack him, huh......and who is the loser.
Hold your temper, son.
Better let me handle these delicate conversations....lol.

danny
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Offline Paul St. John

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Re: LGATs/Encounter groups/Confrontational "therapy"
« Reply #46 on: June 17, 2010, 06:58:44 PM »
Quote from: "DannyB II"
Whooter wrote:
By the way, you do know that kids in treatment programs do have the option of not participating? But then they will not progress in the treatment program, but the teens always have a right to refuse. What if a kid refuses to speak, how would the force someone to reveal things about themselves, etc? There is a lot of misinformation in this thread, as usual.

 
Quote
Paul ST. John wrote:
LOL! Not where I went.. and not in most other programs that I hear about.  If you don t participate, you will be constantly hounded ( confronted) , both on individual basis, by any and all members who wanna get their jollies by fucking with you.  You will be confronted in front of the "family."

Danny wrote:
Why can't folks here just remark on theirs experience, why do they feel compelled to include the whole TTI.
Do you feel your point will not be credible if you just mentions yours. Paul I was in Marathon House and Elan and neither forced me to talk about anything. The only time I witnessed any pressure at all being applied to anyone was during a General Meeting at Elan.



Danny, I am talking about my experiences. Suck It, was talking about programs generally.  this person was making a generalized statement

that seemed to apply to all programs, in this person's perspective.  I am not talking about all programs.  I could not do that, because I have not

 been to all programs, and I think that I am pretty clear on that in my statement. Shall, I have just left it where it was?  Yes suck it is right, You

 never have to participate.




 
Quote
Paul ST. John:
You are forced to "relate with any and all free time you get, which means socilalising with people, even if think they are all idiots. You are not allowed to "isolate", which means not a moment of peace from these people, and if you really just refuse, you will get blow away haircuts, and sit motionless in a chair all day, and possibly forced to clean some gross ass shit.... And again, let s not forget you ll be treated like a recluse.

Danny wrote:  
This sounds like it is a bit overblown,



There is nothing overblown at all about it Danny.


Paul. I just can't see you socializing all day with folks you don't like.


Well, I won some; I lost some, and I found all sorts of ways around it, but I never seen anyone else pull that off, and besides, regardless of

what I or anyone else may have managed to do , in spite of the program, it was designed to make sure that you did participate, and break

anyone who did not.


Quote
Paul St.John
This wasn t  very long ago.  

Danny wrote:
Right,  anything to make a point here on fornits.



I'm not sure what you mean by that man.. I am just letting it be known, that this was not too long ago, before someone starts saying that

what I am talking about occurred 30 years ago.  One of the issues that IO have here, is that nothing is ever established, and therefore, I have to

 keep repeating facts.



Quote
Paul St. John wrote:
and considering I drove past the shit hole last year, and peeked in a bit, I don t think much has changed.

Danny wrote:
Why should it, you have not changed your perception. Maybe it just wasn't for you. You did not need it. Remember your reasons for being there were not really problems of your own making. It was a disagreement between your father and you. I am not being fictitious here, I am trying to be understand.


Danny, I never said that.  I never said anything like that.  I don t know where you came up with this shit.  I mentioned that I did in fact have a

 father, and I told you that it was none of your business why I was there, and from that you create the above idea, and assume that it is real.

I still don t understand you Danny.  You claim to be all about exposing Elan... Why do you spend all your efforts on protecting other programs?

Me. personally, i don t know anything about these other programs, and they are not really the main issue to me.

In the end, it is not about the kid though.  It is about the parents.  It is about the school.. It is about society.  It s not about making the child's life easier.  It is about making everyone else's life easier.





 
danny
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Offline Paul St. John

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Re: LGATs/Encounter groups/Confrontational "therapy"
« Reply #47 on: June 17, 2010, 07:01:58 PM »
Quote from: "DannyB II"
Quote
Quote from: "Paul St. John"
SUCKs shIT Says:


Quote
Yes I'm serious. It's not possible to force somebody to talk about things they don't want to talk about. They can just refuse all attempts to help them, and then maybe they can find fornits and post about how they were abused, etc.

You re a fucking loser.  

Paul

I bet you felt justified to verbally attack him, huh......and who is the loser.
Hold your temper, son.
Better let me handle these delicate conversations....lol.

danny


Danny, this person has many times made absolute fun of the hardships that people have endured. I stand by what I said.  This person is a fucking loser.  And this person has the right to be a fucking loser.  But when this person starts projecting onto others, I am going to let them know that they are a fucking loser.  You don t have to agree with me danny.  I don t need your approval.

Paul
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Offline DannyB II

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Re: LGATs/Encounter groups/Confrontational "therapy"
« Reply #48 on: June 17, 2010, 07:38:28 PM »
Quote from: "Paul St. John"
Quote from: "DannyB II"
Whooter wrote:
By the way, you do know that kids in treatment programs do have the option of not participating? But then they will not progress in the treatment program, but the teens always have a right to refuse. What if a kid refuses to speak, how would the force someone to reveal things about themselves, etc? There is a lot of misinformation in this thread, as usual.

 
Quote
Paul ST. John wrote:
LOL! Not where I went.. and not in most other programs that I hear about.  If you don t participate, you will be constantly hounded ( confronted) , both on individual basis, by any and all members who wanna get their jollies by fucking with you.  You will be confronted in front of the "family."

Danny wrote:
Why can't folks here just remark on theirs experience, why do they feel compelled to include the whole TTI.
Do you feel your point will not be credible if you just mentions yours. Paul I was in Marathon House and Elan and neither forced me to talk about anything. The only time I witnessed any pressure at all being applied to anyone was during a General Meeting at Elan.


Quote
Danny, I am talking about my experiences. Suck It, was talking about programs generally.  this person was making a generalized statement

Danny wrote:
You said, " Not where I went..and not in most other programs that I hear about."

 

Quote
that seemed to apply to all programs, in this person's perspective.  I am not talking about all programs.  I could not do that, because I have not been to all programs, and I think that I am pretty clear on that in my statement. Shall, I have just left it where it was?  Yes suck it is right, You never have to participate. [/u]


Quote
Paul ST. John:
You are forced to "relate with any and all free time you get, which means socilalising with people, even if think they are all idiots. You are not allowed to "isolate", which means not a moment of peace from these people, and if you really just refuse, you will get blow away haircuts, and sit motionless in a chair all day, and possibly forced to clean some gross ass shit.... And again, let s not forget you ll be treated like a recluse.

Danny wrote:  
This sounds like it is a bit overblown,



There is nothing overblown at all about it Danny.


Paul. I just can't see you socializing all day with folks you don't like.


Well, I won some; I lost some, and I found all sorts of ways around it, but I never seen anyone else pull that off, and besides, regardless of

what I or anyone else may have managed to do , in spite of the program, it was designed to make sure that you did participate, and break

anyone who did not.


Quote
Paul St.John
This wasn t  very long ago.  

Danny wrote:
Right,  anything to make a point here on fornits.



I'm not sure what you mean by that man.. I am just letting it be known, that this was not too long ago, before someone starts saying that

what I am talking about occurred 30 years ago.  One of the issues that IO have here, is that nothing is ever established, and therefore, I have to

 keep repeating facts.



Quote
Paul St. John wrote:
and considering I drove past the shit hole last year, and peeked in a bit, I don t think much has changed.

Danny wrote:
Why should it, you have not changed your perception. Maybe it just wasn't for you. You did not need it. Remember your reasons for being there were not really problems of your own making. It was a disagreement between your father and you. I am not being fictitious here, I am trying to be understand.


Quote
Danny, I never said that.  I never said anything like that.  I don t know where you came up with this shit.  I mentioned that I did in fact have a father, and I told you that it was none of your business why I was there, and from that you create the above idea, and assume that it is real.


Danny wrote:
I said something about it because you referenced it on another post, no biggy it isn't my business your right. Sorry for offending you. Why is it such a secret why you were in Daytop on a Web Site like this.

 
Quote
I still don t understand you Danny.  You claim to be all about exposing Elan... Why do you spend all your efforts on protecting other programs?

Danny wrote:
Done got the T-Shirt, Exposing Elan is not a life long project it is pretty much done.
Protecting other programs,  just being true to my beliefs.


Quote
Me. personally, i don t know anything about these other programs, and they are not really the main issue to me.

 
Quote
In the end, it is not about the kid though.  It is about the parents.  It is about the school.. It is about society.  It s not about making the child's life easier.  It is about making everyone else's life easier.


Danny wrote:
Now this is the best statement you have made today.
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Offline Paul St. John

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Re: LGATs/Encounter groups/Confrontational "therapy"
« Reply #49 on: June 17, 2010, 07:45:18 PM »
You missed my point Danny.  

I was saying that that is what it is about... not what it should be about.

We are not on this earth to please others, Danny.

and "programming" a person, because they are an inconvenience to others, is not only unethical, and unjustifiable, but it is also weak, self-centered, and evil.


Paul
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Offline Paul St. John

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Re: LGATs/Encounter groups/Confrontational "therapy"
« Reply #50 on: June 17, 2010, 07:47:51 PM »
Quote
Danny wrote:
Why should it, you have not changed your perception. Maybe it just wasn't for you. You did not need it. Remember your reasons for being there were not really problems of your own making. It was a disagreement between your father and you. I am not being fictitious here, I am trying to be understand.

Danny, I never said that. I never said anything like that. I don t know where you came up with this shit. I mentioned that I did in fact have a father, and I told you that it was none of your business why I was there, and from that you create the above idea, and assume that it is real.



Danny wrote:
I said something about it because you referenced it on another post, no biggy it isn't my business your right. Sorry for offending you. Why is it such a secret why you were in Daytop on a Web Site like this.

==========================================================================
I didn t reference anything of the sort.  You just remember it that way.

Paul
Paul
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Offline Whooter

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Re: LGATs/Encounter groups/Confrontational "therapy"
« Reply #51 on: June 17, 2010, 07:57:14 PM »
The term Large Group Awareness Training (LGAT) refers to "training" offered by certain groups sometimes linked with the human potential movement. By using LGAT techniques, these providers claim to (among other things) increase self-awareness  and bring about preferred personal changes in individuals' lives. Michael Langone  has referred to Large Group Awareness Training as new age trainings and Philip Cushman referred to them as mass marathon trainings.

Large Group Awareness Training programs may involve several hundred people at a time. Though early definitions cited LGATs as featuring unusually long durations, more recent texts describe the trainings as lasting from a few hours to a few days. In 2004, DuMerton, citing "Langone (1989)", estimated that "erhaps a million Americans have attended LGATs". Forsyth and Corazzini cite Lieberman (1994) as suggesting "that at least 1.3 million Americans have taken part in LGAT sessions".
Definitions of LGAT

DuMerton described Large Group Awareness Training as "teaching simple, but often overlooked wisdom, which takes place over the period of a few days, in which individuals receive intense, emotionally-focused instruction."

Rubinstein compared Large Group Awareness Training to certain principles of cognitive therapy, such as the idea that people can change their lives by interpreting the way they view external circumstances. And in Consumer Research: Postcards from the edge, when discussing behavioral and economic studies, the authors contrasted the "enclosed locations" used with Large Group Awareness Trainings with the "relatively open" environment of a "variety store".



...
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Offline DannyB II

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Re: LGATs/Encounter groups/Confrontational "therapy"
« Reply #52 on: June 17, 2010, 08:00:59 PM »
Quote
Quote from: "Paul St. John"
You missed my point Danny.  

I was saying that that is what it is about... not what it should be about.

We are not on this earth to please others, Danny.

and "programming" a person, because they are an inconvenience to others, is not only unethical, and unjustifiable, but it is also weak, self-centered, and evil.


Paul

Paul what am I missing. I did not miss anything, you talk in circles at times. No problem a lot of us do that here at times. Some more then others.
I agree with your "programming" a person, statement.
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Offline DannyB II

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Re: LGATs/Encounter groups/Confrontational "therapy"
« Reply #53 on: June 17, 2010, 08:03:25 PM »
Quote
Quote from: "Whooter"
The term Large Group Awareness Training (LGAT) refers to "training" offered by certain groups sometimes linked with the human potential movement. By using LGAT techniques, these providers claim to (among other things) increase self-awareness  and bring about preferred personal changes in individuals' lives. Michael Langone  has referred to Large Group Awareness Training as new age trainings and Philip Cushman referred to them as mass marathon trainings.

Large Group Awareness Training programs may involve several hundred people at a time. Though early definitions cited LGATs as featuring unusually long durations, more recent texts describe the trainings as lasting from a few hours to a few days. In 2004, DuMerton, citing "Langone (1989)", estimated that "erhaps a million Americans have attended LGATs". Forsyth and Corazzini cite Lieberman (1994) as suggesting "that at least 1.3 million Americans have taken part in LGAT sessions".
Definitions of LGAT

DuMerton described Large Group Awareness Training as "teaching simple, but often overlooked wisdom, which takes place over the period of a few days, in which individuals receive intense, emotionally-focused instruction."

Rubinstein compared Large Group Awareness Training to certain principles of cognitive therapy, such as the idea that people can change their lives by interpreting the way they view external circumstances. And in Consumer Research: Postcards from the edge, when discussing behavioral and economic studies, the authors contrasted the "enclosed locations" used with Large Group Awareness Trainings with the "relatively open" environment of a "variety store".

...

I just read this.....lol.
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Offline Ursus

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Re: LGATs/Encounter groups/Confrontational "therapy"
« Reply #54 on: June 17, 2010, 08:08:02 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
The term Large Group Awareness Training (LGAT) refers to "training" offered by certain groups sometimes linked with the human potential movement. By using LGAT techniques, these providers claim to (among other things) increase self-awareness  and bring about preferred personal changes in individuals' lives. Michael Langone  has referred to Large Group Awareness Training as new age trainings and Philip Cushman referred to them as mass marathon trainings.

Large Group Awareness Training programs may involve several hundred people at a time. Though early definitions cited LGATs as featuring unusually long durations, more recent texts describe the trainings as lasting from a few hours to a few days. In 2004, DuMerton, citing "Langone (1989)", estimated that "erhaps a million Americans have attended LGATs". Forsyth and Corazzini cite Lieberman (1994) as suggesting "that at least 1.3 million Americans have taken part in LGAT sessions".
Definitions of LGAT

DuMerton described Large Group Awareness Training as "teaching simple, but often overlooked wisdom, which takes place over the period of a few days, in which individuals receive intense, emotionally-focused instruction."

Rubinstein compared Large Group Awareness Training to certain principles of cognitive therapy, such as the idea that people can change their lives by interpreting the way they view external circumstances. And in Consumer Research: Postcards from the edge, when discussing behavioral and economic studies, the authors contrasted the "enclosed locations" used with Large Group Awareness Trainings with the "relatively open" environment of a "variety store".



...
You forgot this part:  ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Grou ... s_Training[/list]
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Offline Ursus

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Re: LGATs/Encounter groups/Confrontational "therapy"
« Reply #55 on: June 17, 2010, 08:19:15 PM »
Also from the Wikipedia article:


    LGAT techniques

    Finkelstein's 1982 article provides a detailed description of the structure and techniques of an Erhard Seminars Training event, noting an authoritarian demeanor of the trainer, physical strains on the participants from a long schedule, and the similarity of many techniques to those used in some group therapy and encounter groups.[20] The academic textbook, Handbook of Group Psychotherapy regards Large Group Awareness Training organisations as "less open to leader differences", because they follow a "detailed written plan" that does not vary from one training to the next.[11]

    Specific techniques used in Large Group Awareness Trainings may include:

    • meditation[23]
      [li]biofeedback[23]
    • self-hypnosis[23]
    • relaxation techniques[23]
    • visualization[23]
    • neuro-linguistic programming[24]
    • mind-control[23]
    • yoga[23]

    LGATs utilize such techniques during long sessions, sometimes called a "marathon" session. Paglia describes "EST's Large Group Awareness Training": "Marathon, eight-hour sessions, in which [participants] were confined and harassed, supposedly led to the breakdown of conventional ego, after which they were in effect born again."[25]

    In his book Life 102, LGAT participant and former trainer Peter McWilliams describes the basic technique of marathon trainings as pressure/release and asserts that advertising uses pressure/release "all the time", as do "good cop/bad cop" police-interrogations and revival meetings. By spending approximately half the time making a person feel bad and then suddenly reversing the feeling through effusive praise, the programs cause participants to experience a stress-reaction and an "endorphin high". McWilliams gives examples of various LGAT activities called processes with names such as "love bomb," "lifeboat", "cocktail party" and "cradling" which take place over many hours and days, physically exhausting the participants to make them more susceptible to the trainer's message, whether in the participants' best interests or not.[26]

    Although extremely critical of some LGATs, McWilliams found positive value in others, asserting that they varied not in technique but in the application of technique.[26][/li][/list]
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    Offline Whooter

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    Re: LGATs/Encounter groups/Confrontational "therapy"
    « Reply #56 on: June 17, 2010, 08:23:15 PM »
    Of 313 inmates who volunteered for est training in a Federal Correctional Institution, 150 were randomly selected for the training, while the balance acted as a waiting-list control group and were given scholarships to be used upon release.  The groups did not differ on demographics or variables related to criminal history.  They were given a full battery of psychological tests and biofeedback instruments, with half of the group pre-tested and half post-tested (to control for the possible contaminating effect of testing).  Three-month and 12-month follow-ups were conducted to assess behavioral outcomes (incident reports, furloughs, work performance, etc.).  Although the psychological tests reflected some positive change, these self-report changes did not manifest themselves in alterations in physiological measures or in actual behavior.



    ...
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    Offline DannyB II

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    Re: LGATs/Encounter groups/Confrontational "therapy"
    « Reply #57 on: June 17, 2010, 08:28:03 PM »
    URSUS YOU FORGOT THIS PART;

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Grou ... s_Training
    This article may contain improper references to self-published sources. Please help improve it by removing references to unreliable sources where they are used inappropriately. (March 2008)

    danny
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    Stand and fight, till there is no more.

    Offline Ursus

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    Re: LGATs/Encounter groups/Confrontational "therapy"
    « Reply #58 on: June 17, 2010, 08:31:31 PM »
    Quote from: "DannyB II"
    URSUS YOU FORGOT THIS PART;

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Grou ... s_Training
    This article may contain improper references to self-published sources. Please help improve it by removing references to unreliable sources where they are used inappropriately. (March 2008)

    danny
    Nope. Put your mouse on the subtitle "LGAT techniques" in my previous post... and... click it.

    Do you know how to recognize hypertext links, Danny?
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    Offline Paul St. John

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    Re: LGATs/Encounter groups/Confrontational "therapy"
    « Reply #59 on: June 17, 2010, 08:34:51 PM »
    Quote from: "DannyB II"
    Quote
    Quote from: "Paul St. John"
    You missed my point Danny.  

    I was saying that that is what it is about... not what it should be about.

    We are not on this earth to please others, Danny.

    and "programming" a person, because they are an inconvenience to others, is not only unethical, and unjustifiable, but it is also weak, self-centered, and evil.


    Paul

    Paul what am I missing. I did not miss anything, you talk in circles at times. No problem a lot of us do that here at times. Some more then others.
    I agree with your "programming" a person, statement.

    Oh.. Okay..

    Paul
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