Author Topic: Open Sky Wilderness in Colorado  (Read 15259 times)

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Offline DannyB II

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Re: Open Sky Wilderness in Colorado
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2010, 07:41:41 PM »
Quote from: "Oz girl"
Open sky is run by Emily Demong her bio said she got her start at aspen acheivement academy. The admissions counsellor Lauren Lollini also worked at aac at the time british brat camp was filmed. This place has a long history of disturbing incidents. One boy tried to hang himself. Another incident involved some boys running away and wandering alone in the utah desert in the dangerously hot summer months for days.
The british version of brat camp also depicted one girl getting into a an argument with her admissions counsellors and throwing her shoe at them in temper. The response was for 2 women twice her size to wrestle her to the ground. When she cried out in pain one woman pushed her arm further up her back to show her what "real pain" was. The same series also showed another uncooperative girl being subjected to their "pain compliance technique" which consisted of giving her Chinese burns till she became obedient. This girl was obviously pretty stubborn because they said it went on for a couple of hours. This was the stuff they were willing to be open about. I cant imagine what they do to kids behind closed doors. You say your daughter is acting out due to trauma. Some of the more confronting therapies may exacerbate this. This could potentially lead to physical abuse. Ask the staff a lot of questions about what their time at aspen achievement academy taught them as professionals. Then ask why they condoned the practices of a place that uses pain compliance and see what they say.

OK OZ 1974 I was at marathon House in Newport R.I. I ran away from there and wandered around for 2 days. I slept in a newspaper bin for both nights and hung out with some drunks and drank cheap wine. I knew the cops were looking for me so whenever a cop car came around I hid. This was in November, it is pretty cold in Newe England in November. Is this a disturbing incident, Elan had people run away and wander in the northern woods of Maine and there they sent out "trackers" many trackers to find you. Is that a blessing. I while at Elan went all the way to Oceola, Iowa to pick up two girls that were insisting on staying with this trucker who had picked them up in Mass. This was against their will they were 15yrs the trucker was 35 or so.
They were spotted at a truck stop and the cops came. They lied about there ages and wanted to stay with him.
Now is all of this the cause of a program. How much do we pile on.

Danny
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Open Sky Wilderness in Colorado
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2010, 07:53:06 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
What you are saying is the polar opposite of dismissing all the kids who did well as being “Brainwashed” because no kids could possible benefit from these places.

No, that's not what I'm saying but I'm not surprised you would interpret it that way.  I have a feeling I'm going to be saying that quite a bit.

Quote from: "Whooter"
Actually I do.  I have read extensively and read first hand of the horrors some of these kids went thru.

As I said...you've "read first hand horrors".  You have not clue fucking one how it effects someone.

Quote from: "Whooter"
I have also seen the many kids who benefitted form the programs.  Can you honestly say the same thing?

Yes, but not the ones that employ this type of "therapy".  Or at least not anything with any depth or stamina.  

Quote
Or do you only possess information from one side?  How could you possibly draw  a balanced conclusion?


Again, please read for comprehension.  First, I've never maintained that I'm completely without bias, but - second - I believe, given actual experience inside[/u], in addition to my research give me (apart from you) a unique perspective.


Quote from: "Whooter"
I raised (raising) several kids myself without the help of a program so I know how hard parenting is and I understand the successes and failures.  99.999% of the kids and parents do very well and get thru tough patches on their own.  But a very small percentage of them need help.  If you haven’t walked in their shoes then you do not know the decisions they had to make or how hard they all worked.

READ FOR COMPREHENSION!!!   I *have* walked in their shoes, as well as those of kids subjected to this form of "help" and "treatment".


Quote
I know from reading your posts that you have not had any experience with kids who have been helped by the programs.

Then you've been reading selectively.  


Quote
I am just posting based on my experiences.  I have seen first hand the successes of the programs and you have not.  
 Its plain and simple, you have zero experience with todays programs and the experience you do have is all one-sided.   Your knowledge is from 30 years ago based on a program that is long closed and no knowledge of any kids who did well in a program.


You're a liar on all counts.


Quote
I have the advantage of being able to see both sides of the industry.  The good and the bad


You are a mere observer.

Quote
so I have a better perspective than you do

 :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:

Quote
and I can tell you that you are way off in your thinking.


Thank you for your diagnosis, Doctor.  ::)

 
Quote
But I wouldn’t want you to rock your world by seeing more than you experienced in straight.  I am sorry you are stuck in the past and had such a bad experience.

Again.  You just don't get it and never will be able to.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Pile of Dead Kids

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Re: Open Sky Wilderness in Colorado
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2010, 07:54:01 PM »
Aaaaaaaand now the thread is completely derailed. Sad, you might as well just focus on the first two pages of this topic, it's toast from here on out.

1. Hot damn that trucker was in ephebophile heaven.

2. Danny admitting to recapturing kids for Elan is more than he's admitted before. At what point did they break you, Danny? At what point did you stop wanting to get away from it and start doing their bidding to bring more kids back?

3. If two fifteen-year-old girls would rather stay with a 35-year-old trucker than go back to where they were living, something is obviously very, very wrong with where they were living. Quid erat fucking demonstratum.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
...Sergey Blashchishen, James Shirey, Faith Finley, Katherine Rice, Ashlie Bunch, Brendan Blum, Caleb Jensen, Alex Cullinane, Rocco Magliozzi, Elisa Santry, Dillon Peak, Natalynndria Slim, Lenny Ortega, Angellika Arndt, Joey Aletriz, Martin Anderson, James White, Christening Garcia, Kasey Warner, Shirley Arciszewski, Linda Harris, Travis Parker, Omega Leach, Denis Maltez, Kevin Christie, Karlye Newman, Richard DeMaar, Alexis Richie, Shanice Nibbs, Levi Snyder, Natasha Newman, Gracie James, Michael Owens, Carlton Thomas, Taylor Mangham, Carnez Boone, Benjamin Lolley, Jessica Bradford's unnamed baby, Anthony Parker, Dysheka Streeter, Corey Foster, Joseph Winters, Bruce Staeger, Kenneth Barkley, Khalil Todd, Alec Lansing, Cristian Cuellar-Gonzales, Janaia Barnhart, a DRA victim who never even showed up in the news, and yet another unnamed girl at Summit School...

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Open Sky Wilderness in Colorado
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2010, 08:06:12 PM »
Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
Aaaaaaaand now the thread is completely derailed. Sad, you might as well just focus on the first two pages of this topic, it's toast from here on out.


Ok...in all fairness, I did apologize for the threadjack but did bring it back around...


Quote from: "Anne Bonney"

Now, tying it all back into what we were talking about, we recognize things that you wouldn't.  We can see through the charade because we've actually lived it.  You've been a mere observer, even in addition to your capacity of a parent.  When we hear certain buzzwords and phrases that are common in this type of LGAT/emotional blackmail, we see it for the crap that it is.  You don't. When we see programs shuffle staff around, change names because of bad publicity or actual abuse charges, we question it.  You don't.   At MOST you've got some weekend "personal fulfullment workshop" and your cursory exposure as a parent.  Well, that and your market analysis of the goldmine that is the rehab/therapy culture/industry.

So, g'head and sit up there on your high horse, believing that you have any fucking clue.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Pile of Dead Kids

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Re: Open Sky Wilderness in Colorado
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2010, 08:16:31 PM »
That wasn't on-topic, that was just more arguing with Whooter.

And he's just plain done. He has absolutely no clue how badly he's damned himself, to any parent with any remote amount of sanity.

I'm just gonna upload this screenshot and we can just pull it out any time he opens his mouth.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
...Sergey Blashchishen, James Shirey, Faith Finley, Katherine Rice, Ashlie Bunch, Brendan Blum, Caleb Jensen, Alex Cullinane, Rocco Magliozzi, Elisa Santry, Dillon Peak, Natalynndria Slim, Lenny Ortega, Angellika Arndt, Joey Aletriz, Martin Anderson, James White, Christening Garcia, Kasey Warner, Shirley Arciszewski, Linda Harris, Travis Parker, Omega Leach, Denis Maltez, Kevin Christie, Karlye Newman, Richard DeMaar, Alexis Richie, Shanice Nibbs, Levi Snyder, Natasha Newman, Gracie James, Michael Owens, Carlton Thomas, Taylor Mangham, Carnez Boone, Benjamin Lolley, Jessica Bradford's unnamed baby, Anthony Parker, Dysheka Streeter, Corey Foster, Joseph Winters, Bruce Staeger, Kenneth Barkley, Khalil Todd, Alec Lansing, Cristian Cuellar-Gonzales, Janaia Barnhart, a DRA victim who never even showed up in the news, and yet another unnamed girl at Summit School...

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Open Sky Wilderness in Colorado
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2010, 08:21:02 PM »
Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
That wasn't on-topic, that was just more arguing with Whooter.

Sorry it didn't meet with your expectations.  It was pretty fucking heartfelt, from my standpoint.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Whooter

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Re: Open Sky Wilderness in Colorado
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2010, 08:23:25 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
Aaaaaaaand now the thread is completely derailed. Sad, you might as well just focus on the first two pages of this topic, it's toast from here on out.


Ok...in all fairness, I did apologize for the threadjack but did bring it back around...


I think it would help if you kept the focus on "Open Sky" and stuck with the facts.  But I do appreciate that you recognized the derail.

Does anyone have first hand info on this place?



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline DannyB II

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Re: Open Sky Wilderness in Colorado
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2010, 08:24:42 PM »
Quote
"Pile of Dead Kids" Aaaaaaaand now the thread is completely derailed. Sad, you might as well just focus on the first two pages of this topic, it's toast from here on out.
What more is there to say pile, she asked a question. You answered it many times over.

Quote
1. Hot damn that trucker was in ephebophile heaven.
Your a sick dude, they could have ended up dead.

Quote
2. Danny admitting to recapturing kids for Elan is more than he's admitted before. At what point did they break you, Danny? At what point did you stop wanting to get away from it and start doing their bidding to bring more kids back?
We all participated in tracking kids. This happened while I was still a resident. Matt also picked up kids as a resident, We fought in the ring, we screamed at people during a GM. You did what you were told.

Quote
3. If two fifteen-year-old girls would rather stay with a 35-year-old trucker than go back to where they were living, something is obviously very, very wrong with where they were living. Quid erat fucking demonstratum
What is sad here there parents were paying are expenses, they knew their girls did not want to be there but they did not give a shit. They did not want them home nor did the girls want to go home. No they did not want to be in Elan who did, really.
Stop being obnoxious Pile lets call it a day.

Danny
« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 08:32:32 PM by DannyB II »
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Open Sky Wilderness in Colorado
« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2010, 08:31:19 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
.

I think it would help if you kept the focus on "Open Sky" and stuck with the facts.  But I do appreciate that you recognized the derail.

Does anyone have first hand info on this place?




You got it....here, back on track...


Quote from: "Oz girl"
Open sky is run by Emily Demong her bio said she got her start at aspen acheivement academy. The admissions counsellor Lauren Lollini also worked at aac at the time british brat camp was filmed. This place has a long history of disturbing incidents. One boy tried to hang himself. Another incident involved some boys running away and wandering alone in the utah desert in the dangerously hot summer months for days. The british version of brat camp also depicted one girl getting into a an argument with her admissions counsellors and throwing her shoe at them in temper. The response was for 2 women twice her size to wrestle her to the ground. When she cried out in pain one woman pushed her arm further up her back to show her what "real pain" was. The same series also showed another uncooperative girl being subjected to their "pain compliance technique" which consisted of giving her Chinese burns till she became obedient. This girl was obviously pretty stubborn because they said it went on for a couple of hours. This was the stuff they were willing to be open about. I cant imagine what they do to kids behind closed doors. You say your daughter is acting out due to trauma. Some of the more confronting therapies may exacerbate this. This could potentially lead to physical abuse. Ask the staff a lot of questions about what their time at aspen achievement academy taught them as professionals. Then ask why they condoned the practices of a place that uses pain compliance and see what they say.
[/size]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline DannyB II

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Re: Open Sky Wilderness in Colorado
« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2010, 08:38:27 PM »
Quote
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Whooter"
.

I think it would help if you kept the focus on "Open Sky" and stuck with the facts.  But I do appreciate that you recognized the derail.

Does anyone have first hand info on this place?




You got it....here, back on track...


Quote from: "Oz girl"
Open sky is run by Emily Demong her bio said she got her start at aspen acheivement academy. The admissions counsellor Lauren Lollini also worked at aac at the time british brat camp was filmed. This place has a long history of disturbing incidents. One boy tried to hang himself. Another incident involved some boys running away and wandering alone in the utah desert in the dangerously hot summer months for days. The british version of brat camp also depicted one girl getting into a an argument with her admissions counsellors and throwing her shoe at them in temper. The response was for 2 women twice her size to wrestle her to the ground. When she cried out in pain one woman pushed her arm further up her back to show her what "real pain" was. The same series also showed another uncooperative girl being subjected to their "pain compliance technique" which consisted of giving her Chinese burns till she became obedient. This girl was obviously pretty stubborn because they said it went on for a couple of hours. This was the stuff they were willing to be open about. I cant imagine what they do to kids behind closed doors. You say your daughter is acting out due to trauma. Some of the more confronting therapies may exacerbate this. This could potentially lead to physical abuse. Ask the staff a lot of questions about what their time at aspen achievement academy taught them as professionals. Then ask why they condoned the practices of a place that uses pain compliance and see what they say.
[/size]


My answer/question again Anne why is it a disturbance or abuse for someone to run away from a place whether in Utah or Maine, or Rhode Island for that matter. I'm sure you ran away from home, I know I did.
Just asking....
My post again:
OK OZ 1974 I was at marathon House in Newport R.I. I ran away from there and wandered around for 2 days. I slept in a newspaper bin for both nights and hung out with some drunks and drank cheap wine. I knew the cops were looking for me so whenever a cop car came around I hid. This was in November, it is pretty cold in Newe England in November. Is this a disturbing incident, Elan had people run away and wander in the northern woods of Maine and there they sent out "trackers" many trackers to find you. Is that a blessing. I while at Elan went all the way to Oceola, Iowa to pick up two girls that were insisting on staying with this trucker who had picked them up in Mass. This was against their will they were 15yrs the trucker was 35 or so.
They were spotted at a truck stop and the cops came. They lied about there ages and wanted to stay with him.
Now is all of this the cause of a program. How much do we pile on.

Danny
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Open Sky Wilderness in Colorado
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2010, 08:39:34 PM »
Quote from: "DannyB II"
We all participated in tracking kids. This happened while I was still a resident. Matt also picked up kids as a resident, We fought in the ring, we screamed at people during a GM. You did what you were told.


What about as an Assistant Director?  What responsibility would they hold?

Quote
What is sad here there parents were paying are expenses,


^^^^those errors are so mostly consistent, yet at times so hit and miss that I'm almost positive that at least two people post under this screen-name.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Pile of Dead Kids

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Re: Open Sky Wilderness in Colorado
« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2010, 08:41:54 PM »
Anne: Pearls before swine. Having any kind of real argument with Whooter is pointless, and you know damn well he doesn't give half a shit what you say because what happened to you in Straight was THIRTY YEARS AGO and HE HAS EXPERIENCE WITH BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUE ( :rofl: ). Bullshit, but familiar bullshit to him and that's basically an auto-answer.

I just maneuver him into saying something completely, irredeemably stupid and then stop. I just had no idea how irredeemably stupid he could be.

Quote from: "Danny"
This happened while I was still a resident. Matt also picked up kids as a resident

That's fucked up. Happened in Straight too, right? Two supposedly disparate programs doing similar things. Gee, I wonder if THAT happens today, with the same staff moving around between them and all?

BTW Danny, learn how to use the quote function. Your quotes are all fucked up half the time.

And I say again that what the kids are willing to endure to run away from the place speaks volumes about it. One kid tried to hang himself to escape the program. Another kid ran away and wandered around Utah getting dehydrated for days, to escape the program. And those fifteen-year-old girls were willing to stay with a 35-year-old trucker- why? Same reason. To escape the program.

If being under hellishly dangerous conditions is better than the program, what does that say about the program?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
...Sergey Blashchishen, James Shirey, Faith Finley, Katherine Rice, Ashlie Bunch, Brendan Blum, Caleb Jensen, Alex Cullinane, Rocco Magliozzi, Elisa Santry, Dillon Peak, Natalynndria Slim, Lenny Ortega, Angellika Arndt, Joey Aletriz, Martin Anderson, James White, Christening Garcia, Kasey Warner, Shirley Arciszewski, Linda Harris, Travis Parker, Omega Leach, Denis Maltez, Kevin Christie, Karlye Newman, Richard DeMaar, Alexis Richie, Shanice Nibbs, Levi Snyder, Natasha Newman, Gracie James, Michael Owens, Carlton Thomas, Taylor Mangham, Carnez Boone, Benjamin Lolley, Jessica Bradford's unnamed baby, Anthony Parker, Dysheka Streeter, Corey Foster, Joseph Winters, Bruce Staeger, Kenneth Barkley, Khalil Todd, Alec Lansing, Cristian Cuellar-Gonzales, Janaia Barnhart, a DRA victim who never even showed up in the news, and yet another unnamed girl at Summit School...

Offline DannyB II

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Re: Open Sky Wilderness in Colorado
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2010, 08:45:37 PM »
Quote
Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
That wasn't on-topic, that was just more arguing with Whooter.

And he's just plain done. He has absolutely no clue how badly he's damned himself, to any parent with any remote amount of sanity.

I'm just gonna upload this screenshot and we can just pull it out any time he opens his mouth.

Oh I understand now, you get to decide who is on topic and who is not yet you can wonderfuck anywhere you want. I see....
I thought this was a good topic but your just bashing whooter now. OH I know that is never looked at as a grievance here, dummy me sorry.

Danny
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Offline photo man

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Re: Open Sky Wilderness in Colorado
« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2010, 08:46:04 PM »
- Mind control -  :rocker:  :rocker:  :rocker:  :rocker:  :rocker:
« Last Edit: June 08, 2010, 02:37:16 AM by photo man »

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Open Sky Wilderness in Colorado
« Reply #44 on: June 04, 2010, 08:48:11 PM »
Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
Anne: Pearls before swine. Having any kind of real argument with Whooter is pointless, and you know damn well he doesn't give half a shit what you say because what happened to you in Straight was THIRTY YEARS AGO and HE HAS EXPERIENCE WITH BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUE (:rofl:). Bullshit, but familiar bullshit to him and that's basically an auto-answer.

I just maneuver him into saying something completely, irredeemably stupid and then stop. I just had no idea how irredeemably stupid he could be.


Yeah, so...who ever said I was responding to convince him of anything?  That wasn't my goal at all.

Quote
BTW Danny, learn how to use the quote function. Your quotes are all fucked up half the time.


Shit, we've been saying that for a while now.  It makes it so hard to wade thru his posts.

Quote
That's fucked up. Happened in Straight too, right? Two supposedly disparate programs doing similar things. Gee, I wonder if THAT happens today, with the same staff moving around between them and all?

Oh yeah...someone would run, end up calling the parents...parents would lie and tell them to come home & they wouldn't be sent back...kid comes home out of TRUST and BAM....."phasers" come out of the closets (literally), tackle them, tie 'em up and bring 'em on back.  Happened ALL the time!

Quote
And I say again that what the kids are willing to endure to run away from the place speaks volumes about it. One kid tried to hang himself to escape the program. Another kid ran away and wandered around Utah getting dehydrated for days, to escape the program. And those fifteen-year-old girls were willing to stay with a 35-year-old trucker- why? Same reason. To escape the program.

If being under hellishly dangerous conditions is better than the program, what does that say about the program?

Yup.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa