General Interest > Tacitus' Realm
IBM's new foretelling software to be used by Florida DOC
wdtony:
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---
--- Quote from: "wdtony" ---Why doesn't the state of Florida just lock up every kid in the state? You never know when they might start hanging out with the wrong crowd.
Teenagers are generally crazy and stupid by nature, this is not abnormal behavior. Before a person matures, a person makes mistakes and mostly learns from them. That is, if they have been guided correctly by their parents to a certain degree.
The software to more appropriately curb juvenile crime might be created to focus on local societies as a whole, including all local government, parents and juvenile offendors etc. for the purposes of improving living conditions for all.
But to lock up anyone against their will without a crime having been committed undermines basic human liberties. I read that this was once the reason Americans fought and died in wars. We have a statue.
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wdtony, its just the opposite of what you are thinking, the software will be used to help kids who are already in jail or juvy. Kids who are in jail for various offenses will receive services based on the childs risks after they are released. For example if a child is going to be released into a family which will expose her to prostitution then this child will receive education which which will help her (in her specific area of risk) so that she heads down a better path and will not end up back in jail as an adult.
This is a move away from the cookie cutter approach of having all offenders attend AA or Na meetings (or other training) whether they are at-risk in those areas or not and focus more on their specific needs.
The whole idea is to "Not" lock up the kids and to reduce the number of kids becoming adult offenders.
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CHICAGO--(BUSINESS WIRE)--SPSS, an IBM (NYSE: IBM - News) Company, today announced that the Florida State Department of Juvenile Justice selected IBM predictive analytics software to reduce recidivism by determining which juveniles are likely to reoffend. Identified at-risk youth can then be placed in programs specific to the best course of treatment to ensure offenders do not re-enter the juvenile justice system.
The way I was reading it ( since these articles are so nonspecific ) it seemed to me that kids will be placed in programs after they have served their time in juvy. To me this seems like being locked up twice depending upon the definition of the word program. I get the impression that eventually kids will be "placed" before they offend which is a slippery slope. I stand by my interpretation of these articles based on my own life experience.
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "wdtony" ---
CHICAGO--(BUSINESS WIRE)--SPSS, an IBM (NYSE: IBM - News) Company, today announced that the Florida State Department of Juvenile Justice selected IBM predictive analytics software to reduce recidivism by determining which juveniles are likely to reoffend. Identified at-risk youth can then be placed in programs specific to the best course of treatment to ensure offenders do not re-enter the juvenile justice system.
The way I was reading it ( since these articles are so nonspecific ) it seemed to me that kids will be placed in programs after they have served their time in juvy. To me this seems like being locked up twice depending upon the definition of the word program. I get the impression that eventually kids will be "placed" before they offend which is a slippery slope. I stand by my interpretation of these articles based on my own life experience.
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I can see how many would read it this way. But you need to keep in mind that one of the main goals is to reduce cost. So the state isn’t going to take kids coming out of juvy and then pay to place them in another program. The software will be used to better define individualized rehabilitation of kids entering the juvenile justice system and hopefully reduce their stay there, make it more productive and have an effect which would prevent them from coming back.
I am sensitive to when regulars here on fornits see the word program they think of brainwashing or mind control. But outside of fornits a “program” can be very benign and means a definition of rehabilitation. The program could be that the child sees a therapist everyday or an educator on the dangers of prostitution etc.
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psy:
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---I dont see where this software violates any human rights. The whole idea is to help these kids so that they dont end up in adult facilities when they get older. I havent been able to identify any down side to this. It is very proactive in my opinion.
I just hope they collect data so that they can measure how effective the software use is.
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You need to watch minority report. What IBM is doing is basically justifying arresting people for future-crime, and we don't even know if it works. Even if it did, however, it would still be unethical to use. Perhaps it does result in "greater good" (which you're all about), but it's at the cost of essential personal liberty. How would you like it if you were just misunderstood and because of some wild data about your life you were deprived of liberty and forced into "treatment" for something that may not be a disease, just parts of the way you are. Not everybody fits into a mold. To profile like this is prejudice, regardless of how "fair" the programming is.
--- Quote from: "Ursus" ---I can practically guarantee ya that growing up on the wrong side of the tracks is one of the predictors in that database
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I can believe that. After all, raw statistics can justify such a thing. Lower income (minorities) means a greater propensity to crime. Prejudice is rational, as is profiling. Ursus is right. Nazis rationalized a lot, like you do, Whooter. And so many in this country are on a similiar slippery slope.
--- Quote from: article ---IBM recently also announced that the Ministry of Justice in the United Kingdom uses predictive analytics to assess the likelihood of prisoners reoffending upon their release to help improve public safety. With predictive technology from IBM, the Ministry of Justice is analyzing hidden trends and patterns within the data."
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Wow. Creepy. Do you really want to live in a world where your sentence could be defined by the results of unknown data processed by a computer using an unknown method? What ever happened to a jury of peers.
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Antigen:
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---
--- Quote from: "wdtony" ---
CHICAGO--(BUSINESS WIRE)--SPSS, an IBM (NYSE: IBM - News) Company, today announced that the Florida State Department of Juvenile Justice selected IBM predictive analytics software to reduce recidivism by determining which juveniles are likely to reoffend. Identified at-risk youth can then be placed in programs specific to the best course of treatment to ensure offenders do not re-enter the juvenile justice system.
The way I was reading it ( since these articles are so nonspecific ) it seemed to me that kids will be placed in programs after they have served their time in juvy. To me this seems like being locked up twice depending upon the definition of the word program. I get the impression that eventually kids will be "placed" before they offend which is a slippery slope. I stand by my interpretation of these articles based on my own life experience.
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I can see how many would read it this way.
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Me too; cause that's the way it's written.
--- Quote --- But you need to keep in mind that one of the main goals is to reduce cost.
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I have no such need or desire. You seem to want everybody to think this way. But that does not translate to a need on my part.
--- Quote ---So the state isn’t going to take kids coming out of juvy and then pay to place them in another program. The software will be used to better define individualized rehabilitation of kids entering the juvenile justice system and hopefully reduce their stay there, make it more productive and have an effect which would prevent them from coming back.
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Sure, that would save personal involvement and the hard work of thinking on the part of the people making these decisions. Ask Martin Lee Anderson's surviving family how much they trust the Florida DJJ to make such decisions. See what the White House Boys think of this innovative idea.
--- Quote ---I am sensitive to when regulars here on fornits see the word program they think of brainwashing or mind control. But outside of fornits a “program” can be very benign and means a definition of rehabilitation. The program could be that the child sees a therapist everyday or an educator on the dangers of prostitution etc.
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What color is the sky in your world? Florida CYS and DJJ are notorious throughout the world for abuse and negligence. The way I see it, having grown up in Florida, this is just one more way for the people making these decisions to dodge responsibility. "Hey, don't blame me, the computer clearly indicated that this was the right thing to do."
You know how Florida cops determine "Gang affiliation"? If they see a kid talking, however, casually with a kid who they believe is involved in a gang, that kid then gets tagged. From that point, anyone who that newly tagged kid hangs out with gets similarly tagged as "suspected gang affiliate". This brings in funding and also provides a measure of "CYA" to any officer who may have dealings with that kid at any time in the future.
This is a terrible idea, so I'm not too surprised to see you support it.
psy:
Slashdot has interesting commentary on the subject:
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/04/16/ ... ?art_pos=7
--- Quote from: "fuzzyfuzzyfungus" ---Do you think that there is any realistic chance that having a Respected Criminologist(who knows how to wear a suit that makes him look like a respected authority figure; but not a pointy-headed academic) tell the jury that the Totally Trustworthy and Extremely Sophisticated Computer System has determined that the punk-ass kid currently in the dock before you is an incipient menace won't be a completely standard part of prosecution down there within a few years?
Despite the combined efforts of virtually every major consumer software vendor, Joe Public still somehow trusts computers and thinks of them as authoritative. DAs and prosecutors will absolutely eat that shit up, as will jurors.
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--- Quote from: "misterwhirley" ---Just think - if England would have had a technology similar to this in the 18th century, it would have "discovered" all the rebellious founding fathers, and America never would have had a chance to earn it's freedom. The potential for heinous abuse by the government of this system far outweighs any benefit it may offer. Shame on you IBM. Again.
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--- Quote from: "rotide" ---The best part is, if the software doesn't currently consider you a "threat" we can always tweak it to push you over the threshold! Remember that come next election, or next time you purchase something we don't think you should, or even the next time you pass us and don't give us a compliment!
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--- Quote from: "fuzzyfuzzyfungus" ---New corporate slogan: "IBM an Integrated Best of Breed Final Solutions Provider"?
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--- Quote from: "fractaldice" ---"Mrs. King, we have determined that your son Martin is statistically likely to grow up to be a troublemaker. We advise you begin Prozac treatments to curb these tendencies and allow him to live a normal life. Now please move to be back of the bus."
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