Author Topic: HEAL Coordinator (Read 16444 times)

John Whooter Reuben · « **Reply #45 on:** April 13, 2010, 04:14:12 PM »

Quote from: "Joel"

Quote
Ultimately, managing this kind of behavior is the program's responsibility.

The child has a responsibility in managing their behavior also Ursus.

Well. I'm aware of a young man who was placed in an extremely abusive program for depression and no other reason. The program deceived the young man's parents about the nature of the treatment, which was for far more extreme disorders but the lad's parents were paying out of pocket. After realizing the horrible duping he and his parents had received, the young man tried to tell his parents during a phone session that the program was not what had been promised, which caused the therapist to slam the phone down. How does a sane person react in an insane situation? This young man decided to give it to his captors in spades and get a message through to his parents. He went contrary to his peaceful nature and McGyver'ed up weapons to brutally pummel any staff within reach. To him, the staff were no different than Nazi guards and he wanted out. When the program complained to the boy's parents about the incredible violence he was inflicting on staff, his folks got the message loud and clear - something was dreadfully wrong. They pulled him out of the program and despite a little PTSD, he's fine and back to his non-violent ways.

If you work for a program, you ARE the program to the kids - you are confining them. Don't bitch about having your skull cracked with a toilet lid if you are a staffer, you signed up for the risk and a lot worse. The kid you have to fear the worst is the one who does not belong in a program - they will view it as false imprisonment and feel no guilt in dealing with their captors.

Once again, stop your bitching. I haven't seen a long list of dead program counselors yet, so I find any whining from staff repulsive.

Joel · « **Reply #46 on:** April 13, 2010, 04:45:03 PM »

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

Pile of Dead Kids · « **Reply #47 on:** April 13, 2010, 04:51:19 PM »

Quote from: "Joel"

Quote
Don't bitch about having your skull cracked with a toilet lid if you are a staffer, you signed up for the risk and a lot worse.
[/i]

Despite your views it doesn't give children the right to assault staff including other children.

Actually, Joel, yes it does. The same way any kid taken by a kidnapper has the right to do whatever he can to escape.

Extra props to the kid who realized what he had to do to get the hell out of there.

John Whooter Reuben · « **Reply #48 on:** April 13, 2010, 04:55:55 PM »

Quote from: "Joel"

Quote
Don't bitch about having your skull cracked with a toilet lid if you are a staffer, you signed up for the risk and a lot worse.
[/i]

Despite your views it doesn't give children the right to assault staff including other children. Applies to staff as well. I am playing devils advocate sort of speak. Stopped working for Eckerd years ago. I am in a position to present views from both sides of the fence. You may have a hard time accepting my views but there is truth to them as much as people want to spin it.

True, but the young man in my post who resorted to violence was retaliating against it - and you are probably aware that self defense (for the kids) is not acceptable in an RTC. Beyond a doubt, the young man upped the ante on physical assaults - the staff who got the business end of the toilet lid (the kid spent a week unscrewing it during timed toilet breaks) left the hospital with stitches and left his job at the program the next day. People always have an option of working in an RTC, kids have no choice about being there. All it took was a well-swung piece of porcelain to cause one staff to reconsider his occupation, and he made a damned fine decision to abandon the TTI.

Joel · « **Reply #49 on:** April 13, 2010, 05:13:08 PM »

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

John Whooter Reuben · « **Reply #50 on:** April 13, 2010, 05:22:03 PM »

Quote from: "Joel"

Quote
True, but the young man in my post who resorted to violence was retaliating against it - and you are probably aware that self defense (for the kids) is not acceptable in an RTC. Beyond a doubt, the young man upped the ante on physical assaults - the staff who got the business end of the toilet lid (the kid spent a week unscrewing it during timed toilet breaks) left the hospital with stitches and left his job at the program the next day. People always have an option of working in an RTC, kids have no choice about being there. All it took was a well-swung piece of porcelain to cause one staff to reconsider his occupation, and he made a damned fine decision to abandon the TTI.
[/i]

I think you made some good points that self defense is not acceptable. Staff do take advantage of that, unfortunately and parents don't hear both sides of the story. They usually hear from the staff. Kids are put in a situation where they have to resort to violence to defend themselves. The way I see it, this will be a never ending cycle. Outside of the self defense issue I still stand by my earlier posts.

I should have added this to my post - I hate to see anyone hurt, staff or kid. If the young man had killed the staff with the toilet lid, it would have been unbelievably tragic. But these are kids being placed in extraordinary circumstances that are alien and terrifying to them, with violent restraints and screaming being par for the course. Placed in that kind of fight or flight mode, not wanting to be the next victim, I can see why kids use any means necessary to escape, even if it means attacking one of their captors to get away.

Whooter · « **Reply #51 on:** April 13, 2010, 05:22:31 PM »

Quote

People always have an option of working in an RTC, kids have no choice about being there.

Everyone has an option to control their own behavior and they should be held accountable for it. Prisoners cannot just take the business end of a toilet seat and hit a guard over the head with it. Kids in detention at school cannot just break a chair over their teachers back because they are held there and kids in programs cant act violent towards staff or one another without being held accountable for their actions. If you speak to any of the kids who went to a program they all know their reign of terror was coming to an end. They knew they were breaking the rules at home, not going to school etc. and had plenty of opportunity to change, but choose not to. So they shouldn’t sit there and play the victim while mom and dads savings is slowing being depleted to try and get your butt straightened out. They are in a program for a reason and they all know it. Its time to stop blaming others and get to work on themselves. Violence isn’t going help.

I don’t think there is one example of any child improving their situation by being violent towards a staff member or other child in the program.

...

DannyB II · « **Reply #52 on:** April 13, 2010, 05:28:15 PM »

Quote from: "John Whooter Reuben"

Quote from: "Joel"
Quote
Ultimately, managing this kind of behavior is the program's responsibility.

The child has a responsibility in managing their behavior also Ursus.

Well. I'm aware of a young man who was placed in an extremely abusive program for depression and no other reason. The program deceived the young man's parents about the nature of the treatment, which was for far more extreme disorders but the lad's parents were paying out of pocket. After realizing the horrible duping he and his parents had received, the young man tried to tell his parents during a phone session that the program was not what had been promised, which caused the therapist to slam the phone down. How does a sane person react in an insane situation? This young man decided to give it to his captors in spades and get a message through to his parents. He went contrary to his peaceful nature and McGyver'ed up weapons to brutally pummel any staff within reach. To him, the staff were no different than Nazi guards and he wanted out. When the program complained to the boy's parents about the incredible violence he was inflicting on staff, his folks got the message loud and clear - something was dreadfully wrong. They pulled him out of the program and despite a little PTSD, he's fine and back to his non-violent ways.

If you work for a program, you ARE the program to the kids - you are confining them. Don't bitch about having your skull cracked with a toilet lid if you are a staffer, you signed up for the risk and a lot worse. The kid you have to fear the worst is the one who does not belong in a program - they will view it as false imprisonment and feel no guilt in dealing with their captors.

Once again, stop your bitching. I haven't seen a long list of dead program counselors yet, so I find any whining from staff repulsive.

:shamrock: :shamrock:
First who asked for your opinion on staff and second who gives a shit what you think. Next time take the toilet seat and crack their parents head for sending their child to this place if their son had no problems. Stop your whining and bitching and go tell his parents.

Danny

Joel · « **Reply #53 on:** April 13, 2010, 05:30:08 PM »

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

Pile of Dead Kids · « **Reply #54 on:** April 13, 2010, 05:31:35 PM »

Quote from: "John Whooter Reuben"

If the young man had killed the staff with the toilet lid, it would have been unbelievably lulzy.

Fixed.

John Whooter Reuben · « **Reply #55 on:** April 13, 2010, 05:32:00 PM »

Quote from: "Whooter"

Quote
People always have an option of working in an RTC, kids have no choice about being there.

Everyone has an option to control their own behavior and they should be held accountable for it. Prisoners cannot just take the business end of a toilet seat and hit a guard over the head with it. Kids in detention at school cannot just break a chair over their teachers back because they are held there and kids in programs cant act violent towards staff or one another without being held accountable for their actions. If you speak to any of the kids who went to a program they all know their reign of terror was coming to an end. They knew they were breaking the rules at home, not going to school etc. and had plenty of opportunity to change, but choose not to. So they shouldn’t sit there and play the victim while mom and dads savings is slowing being depleted to try and get your butt straightened out. They are in a program for a reason and they all know it. Its time to stop blaming others and get to work on themselves. Violence isn’t going help.

I don’t think there is one example of any child improving their situation by being violent towards a staff member or other child in the program.

...

The young man I wrote about was incarcerated for depression, sorry you think he should be held accountable. Your kid seemed to suffer some post-program depression, so you should be sympathetic.

Danny B, I hope a toilet lid makes a solid connection with your cranium sometime soon and enlightens you, too.

John Whooter Reuben · « **Reply #56 on:** April 13, 2010, 05:33:19 PM »

Quote from: "Joel"

Quote
I should have added this to my post - I hate to see anyone hurt, staff or kid. If the young man had killed the staff with the toilet lid, it would have been unbelievably tragic. But these are kids being placed in extraordinary circumstances that are alien and terrifying to them, with violent restraints and screaming being par for the course. Placed in that kind of fight or flight mode, not wanting to be the next victim, I can see why kids use any means necessary to escape, even if it means attacking one of their captors to get away.
[/i]

You made a good point when you said, "I hate to see anyone hurts, staff or kid." I don't think anyone wants to see people hurt. What do you propose to stop this never ending cycle?

Scrap the TTI. Man, that's the easiest question I've had put before me, LOL.

DannyB II · « **Reply #57 on:** April 13, 2010, 05:42:00 PM »

Quote from: "John Whooter Reuben"

Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote
People always have an option of working in an RTC, kids have no choice about being there.

Everyone has an option to control their own behavior and they should be held accountable for it. Prisoners cannot just take the business end of a toilet seat and hit a guard over the head with it. Kids in detention at school cannot just break a chair over their teachers back because they are held there and kids in programs cant act violent towards staff or one another without being held accountable for their actions. If you speak to any of the kids who went to a program they all know their reign of terror was coming to an end. They knew they were breaking the rules at home, not going to school etc. and had plenty of opportunity to change, but choose not to. So they shouldn’t sit there and play the victim while mom and dads savings is slowing being depleted to try and get your butt straightened out. They are in a program for a reason and they all know it. Its time to stop blaming others and get to work on themselves. Violence isn’t going help.

I don’t think there is one example of any child improving their situation by being violent towards a staff member or other child in the program.

...

The young man I wrote about was incarcerated for depression, sorry you think he should be held accountable. Your kid seemed to suffer some post-program depression, so you should be sympathetic.

Danny B, I hope a toilet lid makes a solid connection with your cranium sometime soon and enlightens you, too.

:shamrock: :shamrock: :shamrock:

Once again we have a genius on board that can tell everyone what exactly the analysis is by reading a paragraph, thank you John Whooter Rueben. Instead of wanting to commit violence against me why don't you look at the injustice his parents put upon this young man for just being depressed as you said, kipnapping, imprisonment, forced feeding of a philosophy bordered on cultist ect.....

Danny

Joel · « **Reply #58 on:** April 13, 2010, 05:45:54 PM »

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

Whooter · « **Reply #59 on:** April 13, 2010, 05:48:56 PM »

Quote

The young man I wrote about was incarcerated for depression, sorry you think he should be held accountable.

People are not incarcerated for depression. People don’t get promoted for hitting their boss. They don’t get “A’s” for not studying. They don’t get accolades for skipping school. They don’t get a free pass for hitting someone over the head with a toilet seat. This is fantasy on your part.
Every kid in a program knows why they are there. They may not tell you , but they know why.

...

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