HEAL Coordinator

[John Whooter Reuben]

This is silly.  Back to the original topic - how many employees of programs will admit to being abusive, or even believe they are?  Whooter has admitted there are nasty, nasty programs out there, he just has trouble naming them.   None of those nasty program employees think they are abusive, either.  

Randall Hinton thought he was providing a service at Tranquility Bay that was on the level of pizza delivery when he was scrubbing Layne's genitals with a toilet brush and teargassing him repeatedly in the course of a day.  Randall still thinks he's an innocent victim, too.  Let Angela post the names, these crying programees are like former Nazis claiming they were just following orders.  Anyway, why come here to bitch about HEAL?  Take your tears to Angela.

[Ursus]

This is silly.  Back to the original topic - how many employees of programs will admit to being abusive, or even believe they are?  Whooter has admitted there are nasty, nasty programs out there, he just has trouble naming them.   None of those nasty program employees think they are abusive, either.  

Randall Hinton thought he was providing a service at Tranquility Bay that was on the level of pizza delivery when he was scrubbing Layne's genitals with a toilet brush and teargassing him repeatedly in the course of a day.  Randall still thinks he's an innocent victim, too.  Let Angela post the names, these crying programees are like former Nazis claiming they were just following orders.  Anyway, why come here to bitch about HEAL?  Take your tears to Angela.

Yep. I couldn't agree more. As far as staff not wanting their names posted in association with reportedly abusive programs, well... ya lie down with dogs, chances are, yer apt to catch some fleas.

Like I posted on the first page on this thread, before it descended into the abyss of Whooter-flagellation, Angela certainly has a point in listing all known staff associated with given abusive programs on her website. Even if those people have little to no contact with the students, they are legitimizing if not actually contributing to the "therapeutic milieu," which in and of itself is plenty abusive enough, regardless of whether any egregiously damaging events occur that they become aware of.

You could say they are accessories to the crime, wittingly or not. And they are hardly "innocent" if they witness inappropriate goings on and do not report said events to the police, or to DHS or a similar such agency.

In fact, from what I understand, it was precisely such a person, a part-time van driver at Mount Bachelor Academy, who had the intact presence of mind and moral fortitude to do the right thing and alert authorities as to what was actually going on there. And we all know now how that turned out for MBA.

Most staff that figure out the poop on a place don't hang around too long thereafter. Unless they are in agreement with it. In which case...  

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[Whooter]

Excellent thinking and mentality.  I am right with all of you on this thinking.  Get a load of this………We have a guy in town who is the maintenance person for the local Catholic school and has 8 children.  As long as he works for the school his kids get a free education there.  This guy dam well knows that these priests are pedophiles yet he works for them and sends his kids in this place like sheep.  He has one daughter who wants to work for Catholic charities after college.  How screwed up is that?  Brainwashing at its lowest level and he is proud of her. WTF

This guy should be exposed because he is as bad as the pedos he is working for.  We should run people like this out of town, their social values are like a cancer and we should not have to be forced to live with their kind.
 
If someone is even seen mowing the grass for a program or church group he should be exposed and ridiculed openly on the internet along with his entire family.  They all know where the money is coming from.  The UPS guy should be dragged out into the street and beaten with the same restraints he is delivering.  Dont get me started!

And another thing….the dam kids who leave the fact that they attended a program off their resume.  WTF is that all about?  Why are they trying to be deceitful?  They screwed up and needed some straightening out.  They should friggin own this.  Their future employers  and spouses should have this information about them.  If its not on their resume they should be branded liars and this information should be posted openly for their friends and family to read.



...

[Ursus]

Excellent thinking and mentality.  I am right with all of you on this thinking.  Get a load of this………We have a guy in town who is the maintenance person for the local Catholic school and has 8 children.  As long as he works for the school his kids get a free education there.  This guy dam well knows that these priests are pedophiles yet he works for them and sends his kids in this place like sheep.  He has one daughter who wants to work for Catholic charities after college.  How screwed up is that?  Brainwashing at its lowest level and he is proud of her. WTF

This guy should be exposed because he is as bad as the pedos he is working for.  We should run people like this out of town, their social values are like a cancer and we should not have to be forced to live with their kind.
 
If someone is even seen mowing the grass for a program or church group he should be exposed and ridiculed openly on the internet along with his entire family.  They all know where the money is coming from.  The UPS guy should be dragged out into the street and beaten with the same restraints he is delivering.  Dont get me started!

And another thing….the dam kids who leave the fact that they attended a program off their resume.  WTF is that all about?  Why are they trying to be deceitful?  They screwed up and needed some straightening out.  They should friggin own this.  Their future employers  and spouses should have this information about them.  If its not on their resume they should be branded liars and this information should be posted openly for their friends and family to read.



...

:roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[Eliscu2]

Excellent thinking and mentality.  I am right with all of you on this thinking.  Get a load of this………We have a guy in town who is the maintenance person for the local Catholic school and has 8 children.  As long as he works for the school his kids get a free education there.  This guy dam well knows that these priests are pedophiles yet he works for them and sends his kids in this place like sheep.  He has one daughter who wants to work for Catholic charities after college.  How screwed up is that?  Brainwashing at its lowest level and he is proud of her. WTF

This guy should be exposed because he is as bad as the pedos he is working for.  We should run people like this out of town, their social values are like a cancer and we should not have to be forced to live with their kind.
 
If someone is even seen mowing the grass for a program or church group he should be exposed and ridiculed openly on the internet along with his entire family.  They all know where the money is coming from.  The UPS guy should be dragged out into the street and beaten with the same restraints he is delivering.  Dont get me started!

And another thing….the dam kids who leave the fact that they attended a program off their resume.  WTF is that all about?  Why are they trying to be deceitful?  They screwed up and needed some straightening out.  They should friggin own this.  Their future employers  and spouses should have this information about them.  If its not on their resume they should be branded liars and this information should be posted openly for their friends and family to read.



...

::OMG::  :agree:

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[Ursus]

People say report abusive staff.  What about children?  What about children who physically assault staff?  What about children who physically assault other children? Should a child be charged if he or she incites a riot?  Should a child be charged if he or she sneaks drugs into the program?  Should a child be  charged for bullying another child to the extent he or she takes their own life?  Should a child be charged who nearly hits a staff in the head with a shovel during a riot?  Should a child be charged when he or she causes bodily harm to a staff during a physical restraint, with the intent to do so?  Should a child be charged with destruction of property when he or she throws a rock through a window in a program?   Staff fuck up allot but children fuck up just as much in programs.  I don't this is something we can ignore as much as we would like to.

I look forward to some colorful reactions!

Actually, it's pretty black and white, Joel.    

Ultimately, managing this kind of behavior is the program's responsibility. After all, they're in the business of selling their "behavioral health services!" And clearly not doing a very good job at it, if so many kids are that crazed and unhappy, and if there are not even enough trained staff on shift to preempt this type of chaos.

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[DannyB II]

:shamrock:  :shamrock:  :shamrock:

I was beginning to be believe the only kids fornits advocates for are the kids that don't belong in any programs of any type. Ya know the kids that their parents can afford $56,000.00, have extra change $ for a escort service to pick their kid up, their kid never smoked any pot, did great in school,their attitude was a little off, showed minor signs of depression, ya know generally was a good all around kid. Their parents were just fucked up and they happened to find a program that was inline with their fucked up way of thinking...But really it was the "Programs" that has built this "MATRIX" that just automatically brings these kids to their programs and nobody has any responsibility but the Programs.
Joel, your point of kids that are violent assaulting staff and other residents are true. These incidents happen more frequently then we like to think. Kids being admitted for violent tendencies into programs happens all the time I'm sure.
Guys we have to balance this out with the proper accountability going around to the three main players,
Programs, Parents and Children. There is no heavy handedness (in my opinion) in any one direction.

Danny

[DannyB II]

People say report abusive staff.  What about children?  What about children who physically assault staff?  What about children who physically assault other children? Should a child be charged if he or she incites a riot?  Should a child be charged if he or she sneaks drugs into the program?  Should a child be  charged for bullying another child to the extent he or she takes their own life?  Should a child be charged who nearly hits a staff in the head with a shovel during a riot?  Should a child be charged when he or she causes bodily harm to a staff during a physical restraint, with the intent to do so?  Should a child be charged with destruction of property when he or she throws a rock through a window in a program?   Staff fuck up allot but children fuck up just as much in programs.  I don't this is something we can ignore as much as we would like to.

I look forward to some colorful reactions!

http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/posting.php?mode=quote&f=22&p=361413#
Actually, it's pretty black and white, Joel.    

Ultimately, managing this kind of behavior is the program's responsibility. After all, they're in the business of selling their "behavioral health services!" And clearly not doing a very good job at it, if so many kids are that crazed and unhappy, and if there are not even enough trained staff on shift to preempt this type of chaos.

 :shamrock:  :shamrock:
Ursus,
You would like to believe in your idealistic program world that this is true but it is just not the case. They can only manage as well as any other organization that handles a large amount of unruly spontaneous young adults. If your looking for perfection, well good luck. Those kids also have a responsibility to act humanly. There is a preemptive plan but that is only good if everyone acts according to the plan, if one or more of those kids decide not to play along your in for a long day or night.

Danny

[Ursus]

People say report abusive staff.  What about children?  What about children who physically assault staff?  What about children who physically assault other children? Should a child be charged if he or she incites a riot?  Should a child be charged if he or she sneaks drugs into the program?  Should a child be  charged for bullying another child to the extent he or she takes their own life?  Should a child be charged who nearly hits a staff in the head with a shovel during a riot?  Should a child be charged when he or she causes bodily harm to a staff during a physical restraint, with the intent to do so?  Should a child be charged with destruction of property when he or she throws a rock through a window in a program?   Staff fuck up allot but children fuck up just as much in programs.  I don't this is something we can ignore as much as we would like to.

I look forward to some colorful reactions!

Actually, it's pretty black and white, Joel.    

Ultimately, managing this kind of behavior is the program's responsibility. After all, they're in the business of selling their "behavioral health services!" And clearly not doing a very good job at it, if so many kids are that crazed and unhappy, and if there are not even enough trained staff on shift to preempt this type of chaos.

:shamrock:  :shamrock:
Ursus,
You would like to believe in your idealistic program world that this is true but it is just not the case. They can only manage as well as any other organization that handles a large amount of unruly spontaneous young adults. If your looking for perfection, well good luck. Those kids also have a responsibility to act humanly. There is a preemptive plan but that is only good if everyone acts according to the plan, if one or more of those kids decide not to play along your in for a long day or night.

Danny

Jeeeez, Danny, now where on earth would you get those ideas in yer head? You're so busy trying to deflect blame off of the program, that you're too busy to actually even read my post!

Of course, the child has responsibility for their behavior as well. But it is not in the same order of magnitude that the program has. After all, the child has not the full spectrum of legal rights, either. Rights and responsibilities go hand in hand.

Moreover, something really should be said about the therapeutic milieu. This is what the program is selling. And this is really what is so friggin' toxic about programs, across the board, doesn't matter if a kid acts up or not.

[DannyB II]

People say report abusive staff.  What about children?  What about children who physically assault staff?  What about children who physically assault other children? Should a child be charged if he or she incites a riot?  Should a child be charged if he or she sneaks drugs into the program?  Should a child be  charged for bullying another child to the extent he or she takes their own life?  Should a child be charged who nearly hits a staff in the head with a shovel during a riot?  Should a child be charged when he or she causes bodily harm to a staff during a physical restraint, with the intent to do so?  Should a child be charged with destruction of property when he or she throws a rock through a window in a program?   Staff fuck up allot but children fuck up just as much in programs.  I don't this is something we can ignore as much as we would like to.

I look forward to some colorful reactions!

Actually, it's pretty black and white, Joel.    

Ultimately, managing this kind of behavior is the program's responsibility. After all, they're in the business of selling their "behavioral health services!" And clearly not doing a very good job at it, if so many kids are that crazed and unhappy, and if there are not even enough trained staff on shift to preempt this type of chaos.

:shamrock:  :shamrock:
Ursus,
You would like to believe in your idealistic program world that this is true but it is just not the case. They can only manage as well as any other organization that handles a large amount of unruly spontaneous young adults. If your looking for perfection, well good luck. Those kids also have a responsibility to act humanly. There is a preemptive plan but that is only good if everyone acts according to the plan, if one or more of those kids decide not to play along your in for a long day or night.

Danny

Jeeeez, Danny, now where on earth would you get those ideas in yer head? You're so busy trying to deflect blame off of the program, that you're too busy to actually even read my post!

Of course, the child has responsibility for their behavior as well. But it is not in the same order of magnitude that the program has. After all, the child has not the full spectrum of legal rights, either. Rights and responsibilities go hand in hand.

Moreover, something really should be said about the therapeutic milieu. This is what the program is selling. And this is really what is so friggin' toxic about programs, across the board, doesn't matter if a kid acts up or not.

 :shamrock:  :shamrock:
Ursus,
I apologize if you felt I did not read your post correctly. I thought over the last 6 months of reading your posts I had gotten a bit educated on how you look at things, especially the blame.
Rights and responsibilities go hand in hand, child does not have the full spectrum of legal rights, therapeutic milieu, friggin toxic programs. Sounds alot like what Whooter was saying......
How about this, we grab some signs find some parents addresses and go and protest in front of their homes. This would definitely get attention from the media especially if we/they did this in multiple markets/cities. In my mind this would be the first step in accountability for the children. I have witnessed many a parent who have thrown up their hands and given up like it is their right to do so and place the responsibility on someone else.
 Yes these programs are here and so far they have shown they aren't going anywhere as a matter of fact they are building new ones every year. I would love to believe if we just scream/write loud enough they will shut down and go away but that is not happening. So I/we got to thinking why are the parents getting a free ride here, they are just as culpable if not more then the Corporations.
Why, because this is their child.

Danny