HEAL Coordinator

[heelhasabunyon]

I am not meaning to be confrontational..but..I would like to post the following message from a student at MBA, to me, regarding the staff at MBA:
Fam-bay Adamou-Gazis November 16, 2009 at 11:55pm Report
First of all. I never reported MBA to just let you know. Someone called me asked me about my exprence at MBA and I told them what happend. I left it at that. I never pressed chargers againts the school for child abuse or none of that shit. I dont know where you got it from that i started the whole child abused shit. yeah iam happy MBA it self got shut down but iam sad for the staff that i once cared about who had lost their jobs. MBA has two sides of it and I exprince the bad side of MBA.

This is from the very student who CHOOSE her french maid costume for her lifestep Psy.  According to her.  Just saying..I think sometimes when we are dealing with poeple's account of events that took place, we should consider the source.  In the case of ALL parties involved with this industry, both sides of the fence.

[Ursus]

I am not meaning to be confrontational..but..I would like to post the following message from a student at MBA, to me, regarding the staff at MBA:
Fam-bay Adamou-Gazis November 16, 2009 at 11:55pm Report
First of all. I never reported MBA to just let you know. Someone called me asked me about my exprence at MBA and I told them what happend. I left it at that. I never pressed chargers againts the school for child abuse or none of that shit. I dont know where you got it from that i started the whole child abused shit. yeah iam happy MBA it self got shut down but iam sad for the staff that i once cared about who had lost their jobs. MBA has two sides of it and I exprince the bad side of MBA.

This is from the very student who CHOOSE her french maid costume for her lifestep Psy.  According to her.  Just saying..I think sometimes when we are dealing with poeple's account of events that took place, we should consider the source.  In the case of ALL parties involved with this industry, both sides of the fence.

It's a lot easier to find another job, than it is trying to put your brain back together again. I'm not sure you can even approach making a comparison here.

[psy]

I am not meaning to be confrontational..but..I would like to post the following message from a student at MBA, to me, regarding the staff at MBA:
Fam-bay Adamou-Gazis November 16, 2009 at 11:55pm Report
First of all. I never reported MBA to just let you know. Someone called me asked me about my exprence at MBA and I told them what happend. I left it at that. I never pressed chargers againts the school for child abuse or none of that shit. I dont know where you got it from that i started the whole child abused shit. yeah iam happy MBA it self got shut down but iam sad for the staff that i once cared about who had lost their jobs. MBA has two sides of it and I exprince the bad side of MBA.

This is from the very student who CHOOSE her french maid costume for her lifestep Psy.  According to her.  Just saying..I think sometimes when we are dealing with poeple's account of events that took place, we should consider the source.  In the case of ALL parties involved with this industry, both sides of the fence.

It's more complicated than that.  You have to consider the mental state of the kids and the duress they are under.  If you don't comply with the program you don't progress.  You don't advance until you not only admit but also believe everything you are accused of, true or not.  There is no set graduation.  For that and many other reasons all choices within the program can to some extent be considered to be under duress.

I chose to go into the equivalent of the LifeStep seminar a second time.  It was my choice.  But at that time they had convinced me that I was sick, that I needed the program, and I was convinced that If I did not give myself totally and completely to the program that I would literally die.  It can be very very close to a cult, if not fully there.  The things they do in such workshops are inappropriate and reprehensible by whatever standard.  That's why they're so secretive and that's why you'll never hear the program be open about such seminars.  It's also what makes the whole process devoid of any sort of ethical informed consent.

I did not go into the program for a drug or alcohol problem. My parents thought it was a boarding school.  It was the school that convinced me (and I use convince lightly) I had problems I did not.  Even if I did have a serious problem, however, what they did was thought reform... brainwashing... not therapy and certainly not help.  It provides very convincing results, yes, but they don't last, and in the long run they cause harm.

It sounds absurd but if you look into the history of this industry it happens a lot.  You get kids coming out of the worst of places swearing up and down that the program saved their life.  A few years later, outside of the all-encompassing twilight zone, it starts to wear off and things start to fall into perspective.  Without understanding thought reform, you'll be bewildered to death by this industry.  It just won't make sense.  It's why I recommended you read Singer's book.

[psy]

Think of it this way.  Imagine you grew up in a environment of childhood sexual abuse.  You might see what is happening at the time as fun or playing a special game with daddy but when you get out in the outside world, you realize just how wrong it was and you feel dirty.  You feel used.  You feel rightly like you were raped.  Not just physically, but in the sense that everything you believed about what was right and wrong was skewed, and that the people who you trusted hurt you.  It's not a perfect analogy but it makes the point.  Some people like the staff members so much, like their daddies, they refuse to believe anything they did was wrong.  They need to see what happened to them as help and not abuse...  and anything they got they deserved.

[psy]

Noted. I have read all publications that i know about regarding MTBA.  I have also personally attended a "rose ceremony".  I am not an industry professional, and did not experience being a student here, so i can't speak of whether or not abuse took place factually.  I can however ask people making the accusations to provide proof though, cant I?

It would have been much more polite for her to explain the situation, I agree.

[Che Gookin]

I'm not touching this issue with a ten foot pole. As before, I wish Angela all the best in her lawsuit with Provo Canyon.

[Che Gookin]

I know I said I didn't have much to say about Angela, and I don't, but in general I think I'm somewhat allowed to speak on the issue of staff being on websites. When I ran the YLF (An organization that provided us all with hours of comedy and massive migraines) I did the same sort of thing as Angela. I posted a slew of photos of staff members of AARC up in Canada. The outrage and such from those staff members was fairly memorable. When you are working for a program you are supporting an enterprise that is cruel, evil, and disgusting. Even if you didn't raise a single finger to hurt a kid, you still helped make it possible for others to do so.

Now, I am former staff, I did participate in activitives that I freely admit were abusive. I was frontline staff right in the trenches of this ongoing cultural war that is claiming the lives of young children. Just check out Pile of Dead kids signature to get a gist of what I mean. The difference between myself and a person working in the office at the facilities I worked at isn't all that much.

I was out with the kids, they were in the office making it possible for people like me to be out in the woods.

Now.. the question really remains here.. Did those people in the office have any idea of what was going on? Knowing how staff mingles with each other after hours I find it hard to believe they knew nothing. What I suggest for your friend is to remember that most of what goes on with these websites probably won't ever affect her. All she has to do is stay put at her current job for awhile, get some time in grade, update her resume, never mention MBA ever again, and she'll be fine.

Seriously, just don't mention MBA. If they don't find it on her resume, they won't be able to google her name to make the connection.

[Whooter]

Imagine, just for a moment, if this were turned around and one of these programs accused an innocent kid of doing drugs (when they didn’t) or judged them through association..... saying to the kid:  maybe you didn’t do drugs yourself or had promiscuous sex but we are sure you knew kids in your school who did and didn’t do anything about it and therefore you are guilty by association.  We know you must have known drug dealers yet you stayed silent about it.  Then posted pictures of the kids around the campus with witty sayings on them.
I am sure if this occurred in a program then HEAL and these other web sites would cry foul and call it abuse, but would still somehow justify continuing to do it themselves thereby upholding a double standard.

Its funny how somehow the same rules don't apply to ourselves.



...

[Antigen]

Some primary differences:

Drug dealing/using and sex are consensual activities. Illegal, potentially harmful, but consensual for all parties involved.

In a public school, everybody has about the same access to info about what's going on around them and the ability to report it or not. In a program the staff has the ability to speak up but the kids are't even allowed to phone their mothers without a staffer eavesdropping.

[Whooter]

Some primary differences:

Drug dealing/using and sex are consensual activities. Illegal, potentially harmful, but consensual for all parties involved.

In a public school, everybody has about the same access to info about what's going on around them and the ability to report it or not. In a program the staff has the ability to speak up but the kids are't even allowed to phone their mothers without a staffer eavesdropping.

I do see your point, antigen, but your info is a little dated.  Kids are allowed to call home if they like.  In fact the program requires the student to contact and speak with their family to help rebuild the family unit.  There is no one from the program who listens in on other people conversations.  At least not the programs I am familiar with.  If that is still going on today then the parents should be notified and have the policy changed.
We parents (recommended) and made many changes at ASR when my daughter attended.



...

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[Froderik]

There is no one from the program who listens in on other people conversations. At least not the programs I am familiar with.

[/i]

Whooter what programs are you referring to?

Perhaps it was this one: http://fornits.com/SIBS

[Anne Bonney]

There is no one from the program who listens in on other people conversations. At least not the programs I am familiar with.

[/i]

Whooter what programs are you referring to?

Perhaps it was this one: http://fornits.com/SIBS

 :rofl:  :rofl:

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[Che Gookin]

Hey even better, let's turn every thread on the forums into a lamefest whooter rebuttal thread, savin' lives man, savin' lives.