HEAL Coordinator

[heelhasabunyon]

This person is nuts...nuts nuts nuts...and as far as I can tell is incredibly damaging to the plight of the anti-behavior mod movement.  

Her website is so huge, and looks as if it were designed by an 8 year old on crack.  When she is poilitely asked to remove names of innocent people from her site, she replies with an email spouting legal mumbo jumbo and a threat of a harrassment lawsuit.

It is INSANE to me that she can falsely accuse and slander people, and then have the audacity to tell them she will the SUE THEM for harrassment when they ask that their names be removed from her site.

..she is a lunatic...

 ::fullofshit::

[Ursus]

This person is nuts...nuts nuts nuts...and as far as I can tell is incredibly damaging to the plight of the anti-behavior mod movement.  

Her website is so huge, and looks as if it were designed by an 8 year old on crack.  When she is poilitely asked to remove names of innocent people from her site, she replies with an email spouting legal mumbo jumbo and a threat of a harrassment lawsuit.

It is INSANE to me that she can falsely accuse and slander people, and then have the audacity to tell them she will the SUE THEM for harrassment when they ask that their names be removed from her site.

..she is a lunatic...

 ::fullofshit::

Are there innocent people described on the main portion of her site (within program descriptions)?

[heelhasabunyon]

there are innocent people listed on her site, in association with programs she deems as "abusive".  This is a public, searchable site and their information being listed can be very damaging to them professionally (many employess are in a support capacity, i.e. ap/ar, HR, accounting, administrative assistants, etc and have little to no contact with the students, and do not want their names affiliated with "child abuse" when applying for positions in unrelated industries).  I understand many programs are abusive, and questionable in their practices...but painting every employee of just about every private school in the country with the same brush..is in and of itself abusive and damages HEAL's credibility...as well as the focus on "animal's" and the "earth" in addition to teens...she is trivializing her own plight.

You cannot accuse people of something such as ABUSING children, without proof and not have outsiders question the intent, purpose, and professional caliber of the accuser.  It damages the anti-behave mod industry as a whole when extremists like Angela Smith are driving the bus, in the public eye.  (Do one google search and she is right there at the top, jihad and all.)

[psy]

I agree.  Her website does like an 8 year old on crack designed it.  Her tree-hugging hippie bullshit also damages the movement as a whole.  Everything down to her Twisted Sister "we're not gonna take it" theme song screams insanity, or at the very least a complete lack of professionalism and good taste if the target audience is prospective parents.  She has also falsely accused myself and two others of wrongdoing (which she later retracted).  HOWEVER.  That does not necessarily mean that the sworn statements sent into her organization by others are false (survivors written experiences).  It also does not mean her description of "abusive" regarding a wide variety of programs is an inappropriate label.

Why don't you describe where you worked, what she has accused you of, and why you feel they are false allegations.  And for shits and giggles, why don't you publish her emails.  I know a few around here will probably get a little chuckle.

[Oscar]

I agree with you to some extend.

Some of our volunteers at Secret Prisons for Teens do also volunteer for other organizations. I can name:

* Protecting and praising the Danish culture
* Protecting Danish exchange students abroad or foreign exchange students studying in Denmark,
* Raise awareness xenophobia against Danes abroad,
* Raise awareness about Danish prisoners abroad

However Overgaard have asked that they separate their other activities from the work they do on spft. While some of these key issues which are quite accepted in Denmark which is a country at war, they can be viewed as controversial by foreigners. The lesson learned from the cartoon war is that a domestic fight against the supply lines of terrorism can be viewed as too widespread an attack like we today measure the so-called area bombing used by the allies during the last phases of world war II. What did pass as OK back then would be considered a war crime by today standards.

We don't want to jeopardize our work in the wiki-database by mixing Spft's activities with other activities regardless of how important we would see them. So the guidelines are for the volunteers that they may have personal blogs where they have posts on various issues including spft work, but on spft's webpages they are only allowed to write about spft work.

HEAL should buy additional webpages so they could focus on specific causes, but we are not running their organization for them. The webpage could also benefit from a translation into a kind of CMS system. Even at Spft we are looking at various web-solutions. It makes it easier and faster to make updates. I know that there was some kind of communication months back between Fican and Spft before they switched to a CMS system.

However where I disagree is how they should run their organization. One of the most admired Danish politicians is Mogens Camre. Together with Jesper Langballe he modernized the strategies you can use in a political cause. Some might find statement made used in a almost holy cause shocking, but I fell that Heal has not crossed the line about what should be accepted. As long as schools like WWASP can claim more than 90 percent successrate without the rest of behavior modification business condemning it, the industry should be expecting attacks like the one made by HEAL.

[heelhasabunyon]

Hello Psy.

here is the one i just got, you may find it interesting:


fromLogan Payton <logan.payton@gmail.com>
toAngela Smith--Survivor Response <angela@heal-online.org>

ccMichael Crawford <psyborgue@mac.com>

dateTue, Apr 6, 2010 at 1:42 PM
subjectRe: Mt Bachelor Academy Staff List
mailed-bygmail.com

hide details 1:42 PM (6 minutes ago)


Angela,
 
You are crazy/irrational.  I dont really find your petty threats to be anything taken very seriously, and Fornits is NOT where I found your resume...LOL.
 
PS..it would be difficult to assume that I am harassing you, as you respond to each and every email I have sent, minus one.  
 
I have B'ccd the President, the CIA, the FBI, PETA, NRA, NAFTA, NATO and Bill Gates.  Among others.  
 
PS, nice website...real classy layout.

Angela Smith--Survivor Response <angela@heal-online.org>
reply-toAngela Smith--Survivor Response <angela@heal-online.org>

toLogan Payton <logan.payton@gmail.com>

ccMichael Crawford <psyborgue@mac.com>

dateTue, Apr 6, 2010 at 1:35 PM
subjectRe: Mt Bachelor Academy Staff List
Dear Logan,
 
Thank you for contacting HEAL.  I assume you frequent http://www.fornits.com and that is where you found my resume.  I have repeatedly asked that my account on fornits.com and all posts be removed.  Apparently, I may have to speak with my attorney about that.  
 
In any event, your e-mails are harassment.  We have repeatedly told you to stop e-mailing us.  As far as prosecution, we are looking at possible communications theft among other charges.  
 
It is in your best interest to cease and desist contacting our organization.  
 
Sincerely,
 
Angela Smith
HEAL Coordinator
 
(PS Any bcc'd folks, please forward this to Ginger as I can't find her e-mail address.  Thanks.)
----- Original Message -----
From: Logan Payton
To: Angela Smith--Survivor Response
- Show quoted text -
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: Mt Bachelor Academy Staff List


You worked at payless shoes? wow! I heard they only hire the best, er, shoe salesmen.  You are one talented individual.  
 
Hopefully you can get off public assistance soon, and get back to law school.  6 years is a really long "hiatus".

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[heelhasabunyon]

Why don't you describe where you worked, what she has accused you of, and why you feel they are false allegations.  And for shits and giggles, why don't you publish her emails.  I know a few around here will probably get a little chuckle.

I do not work in the industry, nor am i former student.  I live within seconds of Sagewalk, and miles from MTBA.  I wanted to know, as a person with an unclear understanding of the industry as a whole who lives within a community of former staffers, how she came upon her conclusions that ALL of the staff at afore mentioned programs were infact guilty of abuse.  Instead of an explanation, I was threatened with a law suit, personally insulted, threatened with arrest, threatened with the FBI, PETA (i used to raise registered english lops) among other things.  She also immediately targeted two former employees of MTBA in association with me, how or why she came to this conclusion is BEYOND me...she even accused me of pretending to be a lawyer representing these people..which is laughable.
 
Immediately I began to question her creidibility, not the programs i initially contacted her about.

[heelhasabunyon]

People I have nothing to do with this.  I had my problems with her  for various reasons and forgot about them for the most part.

I have no idea who you are, and your right, you have nothing to do with me forming the conclusion that angela smith is a whacko...angela smith does.

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[heelhasabunyon]

You are close to Springfield then?

i live in redmond oregon.

[psy]

Why don't you describe where you worked, what she has accused you of, and why you feel they are false allegations.  And for shits and giggles, why don't you publish her emails.  I know a few around here will probably get a little chuckle.

I do not work in the industry, nor am i former student.  I live within seconds of Sagewalk, and miles from MTBA.  I wanted to know, as a person with an unclear understanding of the industry as a whole who lives within a community of former staffers, how she came upon her conclusions that ALL of the staff at afore mentioned programs were infact guilty of abuse.  Instead of an explanation, I was threatened with a law suit, personally insulted, threatened with arrest, threatened with the FBI, PETA (i used to raise registered english lops) among other things.  She also immediately targeted two former employees of MTBA in association with me, how or why she came to this conclusion is BEYOND me...she even accused me of pretending to be a lawyer representing these people..which is laughable.
 
Immediately I began to question her creidibility, not the programs i initially contacted her about.

Well.  MBA does have a history.

Ask some of your friends who work at MBA about LifeSteps.

Time Magazine did an article a while back about it:

http://www.time.com/time/health/article ... -1,00.html

Page 3 is where the good stuff starts.  Now I know for a fact those kids couldn't have possibly made that stuff up because they did the exact same things, french maid outfit and all, at the CEDU based program I was in.  It may be hard to admit that your friends were involved in these things, and they might not have seen it as abuse, but imagine if you were one of those kids.  That sort of thing does not help.  Ask yourself how a lap dance is therapeutic.  Or even if it wasn't a lap dance and that was an exaggeration, how is Kelis's "milkshake", a song about hand jobs, possibly appropriate in a therapeutic context for teens.  Ask yourself if it could have traumatized some, especially those who might have had a history of sexual abuse.

Why she is attacking you if you didn't work there is beyond me.  If she's not listening to reason, my suggestion is to get a lawyer involved.  However.  If she has not listed you on your website, and you're just sticking up for your friends, i'd advice you to examine very very closely who you are defending.  Good people can do bad things when they are lead to believe it's in the greater good.  Angela is indeed nuts, but that doesn't mean MBA is good.

[Ursus]

there are innocent people listed on her site, in association with programs she deems as "abusive".  This is a public, searchable site and their information being listed can be very damaging to them professionally (many employess are in a support capacity, i.e. ap/ar, HR, accounting, administrative assistants, etc and have little to no contact with the students, and do not want their names affiliated with "child abuse" when applying for positions in unrelated industries).  I understand many programs are abusive, and questionable in their practices...but painting every employee of just about every private school in the country with the same brush..is in and of itself abusive and damages HEAL's credibility...as well as the focus on "animal's" and the "earth" in addition to teens...she is trivializing her own plight.

You cannot accuse people of something such as ABUSING children, without proof and not have outsiders question the intent, purpose, and professional caliber of the accuser.  It damages the anti-behave mod industry as a whole when extremists like Angela Smith are driving the bus, in the public eye.  (Do one google search and she is right there at the top, jihad and all.)

I do not work in the industry, nor am i former student. I live within seconds of Sagewalk, and miles from MTBA. I wanted to know, as a person with an unclear understanding of the industry as a whole who lives within a community of former staffers, how she came upon her conclusions that ALL of the staff at afore mentioned programs were infact guilty of abuse. Instead of an explanation, I was threatened with a law suit, personally insulted, threatened with arrest, threatened with the FBI, PETA (i used to raise registered english lops) among other things. She also immediately targeted two former employees of MTBA in association with me, how or why she came to this conclusion is BEYOND me...she even accused me of pretending to be a lawyer representing these people..which is laughable.

Immediately I began to question her creidibility, not the programs i initially contacted her about.

I'm really not in any position to comment on what transpired in your communications with Angela Smith, so I'm not even gonna go there. Period ... on that issue.

However, personally, I do think Angela has a point in listing all known staff associated with given abusive programs on her website. Even if those people have little to no contact with the students, they are legitimizing if not actually contributing to the "therapeutic milieu," which in and of itself is plenty abusive enough, regardless of whether any egregiously damaging events occur that they become aware of.

You could say they are accessories to the crime, wittingly or not. And they are hardly "innocent" if they witness inappropriate goings on and do not report said events to the police, DHS, or the like.

In fact, from what I understand, it was precisely such a person, a part-time van driver at Mount Bachelor Academy, who had the intact presence of mind and moral fortitude to do the right thing and alert authorities as to what was actually going on there. And we all know now how that turned out for MBA.

Perhaps these people may have taken on such a job unwittingly, and then realized what kind of a hornet's nest they entered, and then left in short order. Those folk's names do not grace the staff rosters of program after program, unlike many in the industry. That much becomes pretty clear after you've perused Angela's staff lists for a time.

[heelhasabunyon]

Why don't you describe where you worked, what she has accused you of, and why you feel they are false allegations.  And for shits and giggles, why don't you publish her emails.  I know a few around here will probably get a little chuckle.

I do not work in the industry, nor am i former student.  I live within seconds of Sagewalk, and miles from MTBA.  I wanted to know, as a person with an unclear understanding of the industry as a whole who lives within a community of former staffers, how she came upon her conclusions that ALL of the staff at afore mentioned programs were infact guilty of abuse.  Instead of an explanation, I was threatened with a law suit, personally insulted, threatened with arrest, threatened with the FBI, PETA (i used to raise registered english lops) among other things.  She also immediately targeted two former employees of MTBA in association with me, how or why she came to this conclusion is BEYOND me...she even accused me of pretending to be a lawyer representing these people..which is laughable.
 
Immediately I began to question her creidibility, not the programs i initially contacted her about.

Well.  MBA does have a history.

Ask some of your friends who work at MBA about LifeSteps.

Time Magazine did an article a while back about it:

http://www.time.com/time/health/article ... -1,00.html

Page 3 is where the good stuff starts.  Now I know for a fact those kids couldn't have possibly made that stuff up because they did the exact same things, french maid outfit and all, at the CEDU based program I was in.  It may be hard to admit that your friends were involved in these things, and they might not have seen it as abuse, but imagine if you were one of those kids.  That sort of thing does not help.  Ask yourself how a lap dance is therapeutic.  Or even if it wasn't a lap dance and that was an exaggeration, how is Kelis's "milkshake", a song about hand jobs, possibly appropriate in a therapeutic context for teens.  Ask yourself if it could have traumatized some, especially those who might have had a history of sexual abuse.

Why she is attacking you if you didn't work there is beyond me.  If she's not listening to reason, my suggestion is to get a lawyer involved.  However.  If she has not listed you on your website, and you're just sticking up for your friends, i'd advice you to examine very very closely who you are defending.  Good people can do bad things when they are lead to believe it's in the greater good.  Angela is indeed nuts, but that doesn't mean MBA is good.

Noted. I have read all publications that i know about regarding MTBA.  I have also personally attended a "rose ceremony".  I am not an industry professional, and did not experience being a student here, so i can't speak of whether or not abuse took place factually.  I can however ask people making the accusations to provide proof though, cant I?  Instead of this being provided, I was personally attacked.  That is all my point is...i am not here to defend MTBA or people who worked there.  I am here as a member of a community which houses several of these schools and I want to know the truth.  I have read accounts of students such as Fembi's, and Joe's, and I have also heard stories from parents and students who's lives have been changed for the good..I just don't know where to put my opinion at this point regarding MTBA as a whole.

As far as my "friends" who worked at MTBA, this applies to one person, who did not work on the campus and never abused anyone.  I can say that factually.  I can also honestly say that my contacting angela was not to "defend" my friend, it was a reasonable request for proof that abuses that she alleges (homosexual cleansing, brainwashing, cult, etc.) are true.  I don't think MTBA is "good"...I am still in the process of forming my opinion....which is why I reached out to Angela in the first place.  

I hope this makes sense.

[Whooter]

It’s a curious reaction that we have also seen here on fornits.  We had an admin who would post pictures of young people (here on fornits) who got their first job as staff or assistant, working in the programs office etc.  and she would humiliate them by making fun of their hobbies, the way they looked, did their hair knowing their friends and family might read it.  It was twisted to watch and I wasn’t sure why she did it.  But one thing was for sure, she was the first one to cry foul if someone made fun of one of the kids in a program.  So she somehow knew it was wrong to attack innocent people but she did it anyway.

I think this HEAL person has the same issues.  Its like having a deep seated hatred for the guy that cuts the grass at the local catholic church (because of the church sex scandal) and making fun of his family and humiliating him.  Some people don’t realize that he is just trying to make a living and feed his family.  I don’t think he should quit his job or take the heat for what some of the priests have done, but some people feel everyone connected to a problem are accessories to the crime and should take an equal hit and be equally responsible.

.... and some people just take personal pleasure in hurting others.  I am not sure how you can stop her if she owns the website and doesn’t care who she hurts.



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