aspergers?

[Ursus]

I concur about difficulties with social interaction and programs being a lousy place for kids with ASD.

But I want to be sure folks hear me on this one: Kids WITHOUT Asperger's are being sent to, and kept in, programs using this bogus diagnosis.

Auntie Em

I hear ya, Ems. Tragically, as you have also related to me, programs seem to dole out labels and consequent recommendations as per how they best figure into the program's bottom line. Namely, the greed factor. The actual well-being of the child is rarely professionally addressed (save by "program professionals").

When I was at Hyde, there were a handful of kids who definitely had, IMO, some real learning and/or developmental disorders or handicaps. Hyde called these "character flaws." Life at Hyde can be a grueling gauntlet of maneuvering through the pecking order. Guess who usually ends up at the bottom?

[Whooter]

Mmm... I'm surprised that you didn't mention the Aspen program Cedars Academy, Whooter, but then... they went out of business this past August, iirc.

This Bridgeville, DE program offered a college preparatory boarding school and young adult transitional program experience for such students, specifically those who were diagnosed with Asperger's Disorder, Non-Verbal Learning Disorder (NVLD) and Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD).

I'm sure then executive director John Singleton's prior experience at New Leaf Academy of North Carolina stood him good stead when it came to the "much more softer approach" these kids seem to require!  


See also:

• Extended Insights, Posted: Aug 21, 2007

• Visit Report by Stephen Migden, Ph.D., ABPP (East Coast Liaison for Woodbury Reports); Visit on: November 4, 2008

• Letter to the Editor from unhappy parents (2008 or 2009?)

Interesting, I dont recall this place

That’s kind of nutty to me.  Why would they mix ADHD kids with Aspies, that would have been a nut house.  I can see why they failed.  They would be a poor model for each other and would even make their conditions worse.  If they had Apergers and then accepted kids with selective PDD/ “Not otherwise specified” or kids with other social difficulties they could have a calmer environment where some of the kids would get along and even learn from each other socially.  But even then they would have to have constant social modeling (24/7) by trained staff and lots of them.  It would be very expensive if done right.
 
But even in public schools they separate the hyperactive kids and trouble makers from the Aspies.  Its not clear to me why Cedars Academy chose to accept that mix of kids.



...

[AuntieEm2]

Ursus wrote:

When I was at Hyde, there were a handful of kids who definitely had, IMO, some real learning and/or developmental disorders or handicaps. Hyde called these "character flaws." Life at Hyde can be a grueling gauntlet of maneuvering through the pecking order. Guess who usually ends up at the bottom?

"Character flaws"? That's rich. And consistent with the way my niece was treated. The program actively worked on the parents to downgrade their expectations for this girl--once an A and B student--to the point where "she's not normal" came to define her as a person (NOT by me). The Asperger's was the label used by Aspen and Boulder Creek Academy to convince the parents of this. It was supposedly the reason for all her anger and acting out. A stressful family environment that included addiction did not require introspection on the part of the parents--it was all her fault for being "not normal." I can't emphasize enough that she does not meet the diagnostic criteria for an Aspie. She was scapegoated, plain and simple.

Programs will say anything--they will lie and manipulate--to convice parents to continue writing checks. We have to be strong and not listen to programs.

Auntie Em

[Whooter]

Ursus wrote:

When I was at Hyde, there were a handful of kids who definitely had, IMO, some real learning and/or developmental disorders or handicaps. Hyde called these "character flaws." Life at Hyde can be a grueling gauntlet of maneuvering through the pecking order. Guess who usually ends up at the bottom?

"Character flaws"? That's rich. And consistent with the way my niece was treated. The program actively worked on the parents to downgrade their expectations for this girl--once an A and B student--to the point where "she's not normal" came to define her as a person (NOT by me). The Asperger's was the label used by Aspen and Boulder Creek Academy to convince the parents of this. It was supposedly the reason for all her anger and acting out. A stressful family environment that included addiction did not require introspection on the part of the parents--it was all her fault for being "not normal." I can't emphasize enough that she does not meet the diagnostic criteria for an Aspie. She was scapegoated, plain and simple.

Programs will say anything--they will lie and manipulate--to convice parents to continue writing checks. We have to be strong and not listen to programs.

Auntie Em

Some Programs will say anything--they will lie and manipulate--to convice parents to continue writing checks.


A requirement to prescreen these children by a third party will eliminate most of these problems.



...

[Anne Bonney]

Anne, you are wrong once again.  (I love pointing this out to you)……

You love being incorrect???

I know what you meant and that's typical of program parents.  You have a deep need to be in control, have the last word, be "right".  

.You should read up (outside of fornits) once in awhile.  Almost any professional that you speak with will tell you that early detection of Aspergers/autism is the key to helping these kids.  Virtually every community has early intervention and local services who are set up and trained to help.  I doubt that you could find many credible sources who would say that parents are equipped to raise an autistic child on their own without, as you call it, outsourcing to strangers.

And again, typical of program parents and in this case a paid shill, you misrepresent what others are saying to fit your own agenda.  I didn't say no one needed any help....what I DID say was that they should get that help without outsourcing their child to strangers.  But again......so typical.

You are grossly uneducated (..and dont go blaming straight again).  Stick with the comedy, I enjoyed that.

And you're a program shill and a prick.

[Anne Bonney]

I know I keep pressing this issue but this is why it is important for all children to be screened by a third party prior to being placed into a program.  

You know the answer but you keep pressing the issue in a failed attempt to deflect, distract and derail the debate.  A third party is necessary because programs and their shills (like you) would find that ANY kid "needs" a program.  An outside, unbiased opinion (unlike the bogus dx from programs who depend on enrollment) is always beneficial.  Even a "grossly uneducated"  person like me (you really are getting pathetic with the insults.  I must have hit a nerve) can see that.....surely a paid program shill can too.

[Whooter]

what I DID say was that they should get that help without outsourcing their child to strangers. But again......so typical.

.. and again you are wrong….Well unless they have a specialist in the family they are going to have to outsource to strangers now won’t they?  But I think you know this……But once they work with these strangers for a few weeks then they are no longer strangers anymore.
You can be so short sighted at times, Anne.

You know the answer but you keep pressing the issue in a failed attempt to deflect, distract and derail the debate. A third party is necessary because programs and their shills (like you) would find that ANY kid "needs" a program. An outside, unbiased opinion (unlike the bogus dx from programs who depend on enrollment) is always beneficial.

You just repeated (an agreed to) what I have been saying all along.  You are finally starting to listen instead of reacting to the person posting.  

Many unnecessary placements would be avoided if there was a requirement, in place, to have a third party evaluate the child prior to placement.  I have always been "for" (not against) having a third party evaluate each child prior to placement.

you really are getting pathetic with the insults.

So what you are saying is we shouldn’t insult other posters who disagree with us?  Hmmmm.  Maybe we should all try that!!



...

[Anne Bonney]

twisted words of other people

Oh bite my ass.  At least I'm straightforward with my feelings and insults.  I don't like you because you make money off the abuse of kids.  You hide behind the persona you've created here and you're veiled insults tell me I've, yet again, struck a nerve. Fornits obviously has or you wouldn't still be here trying to derail, deflect, discredit and generally disrupt.  Fornits is quite obviously having an impact on "the industry" or there would be no need for you to stick around.

[Anne Bonney]

I have always been "for" (not against) having a third party evaluate each child prior to placement.

Then why keep "pressing the issue" asshole?

[John Whooter Reuben]

Tell him, Anne.  You did hit a nerve again, but Whooter has always been especially nasty toward you.  He's always been particularly nasty to his female critics.  Hmmm...not too fond of women, John?  They're not fond of you either.

[Troll Control]

Ursus wrote:

When I was at Hyde, there were a handful of kids who definitely had, IMO, some real learning and/or developmental disorders or handicaps. Hyde called these "character flaws." Life at Hyde can be a grueling gauntlet of maneuvering through the pecking order. Guess who usually ends up at the bottom?

"Character flaws"? That's rich. And consistent with the way my niece was treated. The program actively worked on the parents to downgrade their expectations for this girl--once an A and B student--to the point where "she's not normal" came to define her as a person (NOT by me). The Asperger's was the label used by Aspen and Boulder Creek Academy to convince the parents of this. It was supposedly the reason for all her anger and acting out. A stressful family environment that included addiction did not require introspection on the part of the parents--it was all her fault for being "not normal." I can't emphasize enough that she does not meet the diagnostic criteria for an Aspie. She was scapegoated, plain and simple.

Programs will say anything--they will lie and manipulate--to convice parents to continue writing checks. We have to be strong and not listen to programs.

Auntie Em

Some Programs will say anything--they will lie and manipulate--to convice parents to continue writing checks. We have to be strong and not listen to programs.

A requirement to prescreen these children by a third party will eliminate most of these problems.



...

FINALLY, Whooter admits what we all have been saying all along: PROGRAMS CAN'T BE TRUSTED.  But, by Whooter's tortured logic, the program CAN'T be trusted to SCREEN the child properly, but they CAN be trusted to TREAT the child properly.  This is as illogical a statement as can be.  If they can't SCREEN properly, how on earth can they TREAT properly?

@Anne - Isn't it grand how Whooter squeals like a pig when he feels he's been insulted and rails against the "unfairness" of ad hominems while accusing everyone who disagrees with him of being "full of hatred," but when he gets any opportunity whatsoever, he slams anyone he can with the most personal and vile insults?  

Again, folks, CONSIDER THE SOURCE.  The reason Whooter and parents like him have so much trouble raising their own kids is because they model these awful behaviors and have these terrible attitudes while simultaneously demanding that their kids don't follow their parents' lead.  The program tells them "It's not your fault, it's the kid's fault.  We'll take care of that for you." and off they go!

And, as an aside, Whooter is one of the most uneducated people here.  And it shows.  He couldn't even manage to finish college and yet he sits here telling everyone else how uneducated THEY are.  Lols.

[Whooter]

I have always been "for" (not against) having a third party evaluate each child prior to placement.

Then why keep "pressing the issue" asshole?

I press the issue because I think it would keep kids, who are misdiagnosed, from being placed into programs.  If a program tells a parent that their son has Aspergers and they subsequently have their child evaluated by a third party (local hospital/therapist) and the hospital/therapist states they feel your child does not have Aspergers then it raises a red flag.
This will force the parents to take a closer look at their childs problem and seek more opinions besides just what a program admittance team would recommend.

Some parents just dont know any better and some programs or admittance personel may misdiagnose a kid in order to fill an empty bed.

Thanks for coming around on the issue.  I know it is tough for you.  I also think this brings us back on topic.



...

[Troll Control]

^^What a condescending douchebag^^

BTW, can you make a list for us of the programs that lie to fill beds?  At least you could be of some use then.

[Troll Control]

Mmm... I'm surprised that you didn't mention the Aspen program Cedars Academy, Whooter, but then... they went out of business this past August, iirc.

This Bridgeville, DE program offered a college preparatory boarding school and young adult transitional program experience for such students, specifically those who were diagnosed with Asperger's Disorder, Non-Verbal Learning Disorder (NVLD) and Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD).

I'm sure then executive director John Singleton's prior experience at New Leaf Academy of North Carolina stood him good stead when it came to the "much more softer approach" these kids seem to require!  


See also:

• Extended Insights, Posted: Aug 21, 2007

• Visit Report by Stephen Migden, Ph.D., ABPP (East Coast Liaison for Woodbury Reports); Visit on: November 4, 2008

• Letter to the Editor from unhappy parents (2008 or 2009?)

Interesting, I dont recall this place

...

   
Probably can't recall any shuttered-for-abuse Aspen facilities on his "master list"...

[John Whooter Reuben]

Some parents just dont know any better and some programs or admittance personel may misdiagnose a kid in order to fill an empty bed.


...

This is very true of what happened to John D. Reuben and his son Michael at Aspen's  ASR.  Reuben is a clueless parent and his son was misdiagnosed and not treated properly for the addiction that killed him.

The immoral, unethical personnel using false diagnoses to fill program beds are bad enough, but clueless parents who are too caught up in their careers to parent properly make it easier.  We can get the shitty programs shut down, but what about shitty parents like Reuben?