Against Their Will?

[Anonymous]

What exactly is "against their will" when it comes to stopping the damaging behaviors of a troubled teen?  Their "will" is focused on their friends, drugs, sex, internet addiction, dropping out of school... What would be "an agreement to attend" entail?  

Some States see that if someone, not just a teen, is a danger to themselves or others, then someone makes that decision for them.  Do they go into any program admitting they need help?  Most don't. That's why a short term program won't work for them.  They need the time to change their behavior because they want to.  For a lot of people, not just teens, that takes a while.  

Good for the kids that do see they need help. Most others don't know how to ask other than act out in  "please help me" behaviors. What do you think ignoring those signs and not getting help outside the home because you've had to learn it the hard way is telling your child? It's your job as a parent to do whatever it takes to make sure your child doesn't damage their future.  Make it easy, no, learn their lessons for them, no. But don't blame the kids for their behavior - parents need help at the same time.

Just letting your children do what they want, without guidance, discipline or consequences is not showing love, it's showing selfishness in the worst way. Do you think your kid is going to thank you someday?

If you find a results based behavior change program that offers help for the parents too, your kids will thank you if you're committed to go the distance to take a stand for both your life and theirs.

On the other hand, if you are into fear tactics, stories of abuse, beatings, starvation, separation anxiety, that's your choice.

Aren't our kids required to go to school 5 days a week against their will until they're 16?  What else do they do against their will that we as parents need to enforce?    

Against their will?  Gotta love that one!

[Anonymous]

Exuse me?  Gotta love that One?

Its very much not a funny thing that theres kids being held against there will being abused in the name of treatment. You think that over, Your program talk means jack sh88.

I dont know where the hel you come from,
But IT IS NOT OKAY TO ILLEGALLY INCARCERATE KIDS AGAINST THERE WILL AND MAKE THEM HAVE NO CHOICE TO GO ALONG WITH SOME BRAINWASHING METHODS.


YOU MAKE ME SICK (LITERALLY)

THE FACT YOUR GONNA SIT BEHIND A  MONITOR AND TYPE SUCH A THING DISCUSTS ME WHILE THERES KIDS BEING BEAT INTO SUBMISSION. TAKE YOUR PROGRAM BULL SH88 BACK TO WHERE YOU CAME FROM YOU SUPPORTIVE ABUSIVE SLIME BAG.

[FaceKhan]

I suggest you read this http://www.isaccorp.com/tbj/tranquilityreport.doc

This is why we are fighting to protect the rights of teens and why the current situation is vastly inadaquate.

[Anonymous]

Anon.  FYI  I took a stand on behalf of my child. It was the most difficult thing to do. Most of us parents did the same thing. Because we love and are sseking treatment to assist with our children destructive behaviors.That goes without saying.

The problem is not (in my opinion) the need to get help, the problem is the help WWASP provides. They lie, manipulate and harm the children. They use humiliation(not love),threates,corecion(not love).
Deprivation of food(not love),physical violence,restraint, sexual violence(not love).


Come to the party.You are still in la la land in believing the wwasp program helps the kids.
Maybe some kids are helped. Not really.

The ones that have been psychologicaly
harmed,physically harmed is inexcuseable.There are many.

I have spoken with many kids since are WWASP experience.Kids who have gone to different boarding schools.They are happy, healthy. Of course they did not like the idea they were at their school against their will. But the fact is they were not abused in any way. No sexual predators at their school.

They spoke with their parents weekly with real doctors assisting.Progress was made.
 
None of this months and months  and months before an opportunity to speak with your child.(Progarm guidelines).

The truth about WWASP makes me sick. Literally.

It would make you sick too if you heard what was being told.

Nothing you can say can deter me from what I know and experienced with in the WWASP Program.

[Anonymous]

Anon..

Please share with us the "results based " program facts about the kids who left the WWASP Program to go on to "Havard and Standford."

One of you WWASP admissions market experts shared that fact with me recently.

The speel was the same speel Lisa Irvin spew forth three years ago. The lies are endless.

You Teen Help/WWASP folks are unbelievable in your lying expertise.

Where's the INTEGRITY, ACCOUNTABILITY.
Where's Bill Dean now?

[Anonymous]

Oh for goodness sake. Show me the perfect person - is it you?

If your child is endangering themselves or others then you ought to be able to get a Judge to agree with you that they need help...problem is that the teen helpers will take anyone that can pay and seem to spend more time/money on marketing than anything else.

When you pay parents ALOT to refer to your facility you are going to get referrals based on $$ not on need. Does your doctor get a referral fee to send you to a counsler?

What diagnosis is there that abuse/neglect is the prescription?

Parents are victimized too-yet when the truth is known how will they react? Do they support and defend their children or their new found friends/religion?

How would it feel to be abused and then have your parents tell you you're lying? What gift is that for your child.

Respect begets respect. What kind of parenting have these kids been taught is okay? Will they subconsiously resort to what has been done to them when they cannot reason with their 3 year old?

What kind of organization puts a warranty on children?

Children are not a commodity they are a gift. The really brave thing to do is to gut it out - like your parents probably did.

[Anonymous]

you said....But don't blame the kids for their behavior - parents need help at the same time.



so why don't you try checking yourself in first.

[Anonymous]

Well, that's an interesting theory *except* that "danger to themselves or others" has a *specific* meaning in law----which is that the person has threatened suicide in the last 48 hours or has made specific, credible threats of violence against other people.

It doesn't just mean having a few personally self-destructive habits.

You can't, for example, legally commit a drinking alcoholic for being a drinking alcoholic.

*IF* restrictive boarding schools were required by law to follow the *same* standards for involuntary commitment as state mental institutions, I don't think people would be nearly as upset with them.

They also wouldn't be nearly as upset with them if they were actually *helping* their victims, instead of merely inducing Stockholm Syndrome and Atypical Dissociative Disorder in them which *looks* superficially as though they've been "helped"----until the PTSD kicks in, or the Stockholm Syndrome wears off, or the phobias present clinically, or until the patient starts shifting between the original personality and the superficially imposed dissociated personality created by the half-assed use of mind control techniques by pseudo-shrinks who don't realize they're working *way* beyond their level of knowledge and competency.

Of course, by then the victim is legally adult and the parent doesn't have a lot of recourse.  And the victim is busy straightening his/her own head out and recovering from the psychological damage *required* to create the illusion of help using mind control techniques, along with any other incidental psychiatric problems caused by the details of his/her individual encounter with this quackery.

Rule of thumb----if a program practices withholding the mail of the inmates/students/patients *except* on a case by case basis decided by a licensed psychiatrist with a specific doctor/patient relationship with the teen, for a very limited time, for patients with serious psychiatric problems who are actively suicidal or actively threatening violence---if it practices withholding mail as a matter of *policy*---it is not "helping" anyone.  It is inducing Stockholm Syndrome and using mind control techniques (usually ham-handedly in ways that are apt to produce psychiatric casualties) to produce a temporary and transient *illusion* of having helped.

I hope you aren't an employee in any kind of counseling position in one of these programs.  If you are, your obvious woeful ignorance of the human mind presents an active danger to anyone you "counsel" as part of these programs and I urge you to intensively study mind control and post-cult recovery to develop an understanding of how you are harming your patients and why you should stop.

There *are* proper ways to help troubled teens.  None of them involve inducing Stockholm Syndrome and Atypical Dissociative Disorder, and all of them take a lot more individualized care and have a higher *real* (anything's higher than active harm, even benign neglect---and *good* practices are much better than benign neglect) and significantly lower *superficial* success rate.

Stockholm Syndrome and Atypical Dissociative Disorder aren't "help".  The *only* reason for routine isolation from one's mail as *policy* is to induce Stockholm Syndrome.

[Deborah]

There is a significant difference between
*compulsory education and 24/7 incarceration- compulsory education controversial itself.
*parents guiding and disciplining vs hiring others to abuse under the guise of therapy.
*having daily physical contact with your child vs having to ?earn the right?.
*court ordered incarceration vs parental incarceration- a very different message.

Here?s a fun scenario to entertain:
You?re having your morning coffee, chatting with a friend and arranging to meet the girls for lunch over at the club, when in bursts 2 brutes and haul you away. They assure you that the hand cuffs, mace, and duck tape won?t be used unless you make it necessary. Hubby meets you at the door, give you a peck on the cheek, and says he?s sorry, but it?s for your own good.  As you later discover, hubby is fed up with your lazy, oppositional, lying, manipulating extravagant ass. He claims that YOU are the problem. He is desperate and has had you incarcerated in the Stepford Better Wife Program without the benefit of due process.

Taking a bit of ?responsibility?,  he will take the Better Husband Seminars so he can better keep you in line if/when the time comes that you?ve proven you can be the cooperative wife he expects you to be.

While incarcerated one might think that she would participate in home ec type courses- How to starch and iron his shirts, How to cook a gourmet meal in 20 minutes on a budget, How to be a thrifty shopper, How to satisfy your man?s needs?.. Unfortunately, the Stepford Better Wives Program is not about learning skills, learning how to communicate, negotiate, and compromise. No, it is designed to ensure that you will learn and accept your limited role and say in decisions that affect your life.

You will not be allowed to speak to other wives or do simple things like look out the window. Every moment will be focused on YOU becoming a better wife. No more coffee and chocolate, or shopping sprees at the mall. No more romance novels either, only back issues of Better Homes and Gardens. You?ll be allowed a quick shower once a week and may or may not have access to feminine hygiene products- that is if you still menstruate. You will have no contact with the outside world- particularly to attorneys or human rights organizations. No, you?re stuck. Instead your days will fall into monotonous routine of journaling what a terrible wife you have been, what you did to get yourself incarcerated, ways you could improve and viewing selected Better Wife videos and reruns of Leave it to Beaver, The Brady Bunch, and Father Knows Best. There will be daily sermons from the Book of Paul on how women can be subject to their men in 2003- should be very informative.  No more gourmet meals at your favorite restaurant. No, for how ever long it takes for you to ?get it?, to ?work the program?, you will be earning the privilege of adequate nutrition.   No more tennis lessons from the hunk at the club. No more tanning booths and acrylic nails. In fact, acrylic nails are viewed as weapons and will be ripped off one by one.  SBWP aims to put you back in touch with what?s really important. Back to the basics, as it were.

Inmates of the SBWP should expect to endure some physical pain, as that seems to be the "only way that some women can get it?.  Expect to lie in the same position for hours, days on end- Not anything like the yoga class you took at the club. It is a consequence for your transgressions. If you crack and lash out, someone will be there to restrain you, protecting you and others from your ?inappropriate? reaction to your ?treatment?.

While incarcerated in the SBWP, hubby and Jr will be living it up and writing to tell you of their trips to exotic destinations. Hubby can afford this now that he isn?t paying your outrageous credit card bills, plus he signed up 4 new hubbies to ship their wives off too. Free of your nagging, expensive ass, he has the time and money to enjoy himself again.

Staff will see to it that you are unable to report inhumane treatment. Hubby will be told to ignore your complaints- just more of your whining, manipulative lying, which could worsen around PMS.

Don?t be alarmed- in time you will learn that this is ?in your best interest?, ?for your own good?. Very early on you will ?get it? that your attempts to expose the truth will fall on deaf ears. May as well surrender to the program. After all, you really don?t have any other option, do you?

Absurd? Yeh, and some view the incarceration of teens in abusive programs as equally absurd.

[Anonymous]

Deborah,

I read your senario.  I do see one aspect that you did not address.  Parents are responsible for the actions of their teens.  If a teen causes harm to another individual by say, crashing their car, while driving drunk, into that of anothers, then the parents can be held liable.  Parents should have the right to seek help for their children, without their consent if necessary.

I am not implying that abuse is ok.  Never is abuse or neglect ok!

[Carey]

That was from me.

[Anonymous]

Against Their Will - I 100% agree with getting help - WWASPS and other programs are the most effective, long term way to get this.  You talk about abuse?  Can't go along with that.  The kids abuse themselves, sometimes physically with drugs, cutting, alcohol, unprotected sex.  Other times they abuse themselves psychologically by manipulating their parents, peer pressure, not accepting discipline from parents, calling the cops because they know mommy and daddy will get their own form of discipline if they say they were being hit or abused - and no that's not just a wwasps term!  I hear it from teachers and counselors too!

I hear a lot of accusations - but where are the facts?  This board is saturated with accusations to steer parents away from real help.  Go figure...nothing new.  No program is perfect, no staff person is perfect.  No parent is perfect.  

If a kid is hurt, then hold someone accountable.  If the kid made the stories up to come home, and THEY ALL DO TRY, then quit blaming the program and deal with the afterburn yourselves.  

What I see is the same ol stories that have nothing to back it up but words.  It sounds like the PURE people at it again...or not...but the same M.O.  Turn your obessions to the juvenile justice system or the inadequate school systems that DO HARM our kids.  

Deborah - your scenario is a joke.  You had separation anxiety in whatever program your son was in - which you still have chosen not to share, by the way.  

Against their will - go house break a puppy!  Maybe if you pet it enough and calmly say no puppy,don't poop in the house, it will 'get it'- now that's funny!

[Deborah]

*If a teen causes harm to another individual by say, crashing their car, while driving drunk, into that of anothers, then the parents can be held liable. Parents should have the right to seek help for their children, without their consent if necessary.

If the teen has a known drinking problem, then why does he have access to a car? Yes, the parent is and should be financially accoutable, teens rarely have income. But they can get a job and repay the parent for any damages that occured. Having a job may also give them less time to be bored stiff and finding ways to aleviate their boredom. I think requiring the teen to take responsibility in that way, might fall in the catagory of "help". A direct consequence of an action or behavior. Shipping them off does not teach that lesson. It's all in how you define "help".
Teens need to learn the realities of the world and their place in a social group. They can't do that while incarcerated and isolated from the world.
Deborah

[Anonymous]

Deborah - you have all the answers.  Are you teaching Parenting 101?  What are those little ones you care for doing while you're on the computer all day?  Maybe they're not old enough to talk yet?  That's safe, don't care for someone else's child that can talk and get a burr up their butt and say you abused them or didn't feed them their afternoon cookie.  

I would love to be around if you follow through with your talk of opening a program for troubled teens and then you get accused of what you are agreeing with on this board.  :rofl:     :wink:

[Carey]

But they can get a job and repay the parent for any damages that occured.

Deborah, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.  You can tell a teen he has to work to pay for the damage, but who is going to hire them if they are defiant and not willing?

If the teen has a known drinking problem, then why does he have access to a car?

Deborah, it is called stealing.  Have you ever heard of it?  It actually happens.  

Quit thinking so simplistically and start thinking realistically.  We all would love for our kids to take responsibilty, but that is the problem, they don't.

Shipping them off does not teach that lesson. It's all in how you define "help".

Personally, I don't agree with shipping them off.  I think the parents who ship them off should be held just as accountable as those with whom they have been shipped off too, if abuse occurs.  I think the parents should be considered neglectful and charged accordingly.  Ultimately the parents are responsible for the well being of their child.  It would be like charging the John who pays for sex along with the prostitute who provides the service.


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