The Fucking Weak.

[Anonymous]

Hard to believe it has been over three years since I took my children and left PA.  I have to say it was the hardest thing I have ever done.

One evening, sometime in March 2003, I was doing a bible study called "Making Peace With Your Past".  I was really into in.  I was really into bible studies in general at that time...  I couldn't figure out why my marriage was so terrible, and I thought surely it was me and I could use God's help to figure me out...  My husband, Powerful Attitude, was sitting on the couch (which is where he sat when he was home, which was not very often at that time).  Week 4 was titled: Uncovering Hidden Memories.  I was searching the bible, praying, reading....  When I was done, I hopped on the computer and started googling.  Just goolging whatever came to mind.  Then I had a brilliant idea, "Hey, Marc, what was the name of that treatment center that your parents put you in when you were younger?"  His reply, "Straight.  Straight Incorporated."  I googled it.  

Sometimes I wish I never asked.  Sometimes I am glad I did.  Either way, what happened the next 4 months of my life was unbelievable.  Unbearable.  

We checked out a few websites.  I sat with him and listened for 4 days straight (no pun intended) with little to no rest, as he remembered.  Story after story, memory after memory.  To say the very least, I was FREAKED OUT!  I pleaded that he talk to someone, anyone.  His mom, his dad, a professional.  He quit his job as a Real Estate Investment Analyst.  He tried to tell his parents, and they would not hear of it.  I still (to this day) can not get them to even visit a straight website.  He was only 14.  Makes me sick to think of it, even now.

I did try hard to encourage him to see someone.  I knew that my listening would not be enough.  This was HUGE.  I was borderline addicted to this site.  He had started posting things, and I was so interested in him healing that I thought it would help.  I pleaded for him to do something.  

He had been verbally abusive pretty much since we got pregnant.  It was nothing to what was happening now.  He talked for hours and hours about raps and brainwashing and crazy distortions of the bible.  He began yelling at me, sometimes for hours.  I would lay on the floor in a ball, crying, begging him to stop.  He would call me names, accuse me of things that were not true.  The children were earshot away.  I did not know what to do with the pain.  Who could I tell and what would I say?  My husband remembered something terrible, and now he yells at me day and night.  Sometimes wakes me from sleeping at 3 in the morning by pulling the covers off and throwing papers of me that he has printed that he says is "PROOF" of an online affair.  All I wanted was help.  Any help.  Never in my life had I ever done this, but when the screaming and yelling reached a certain inexplicible point, I began using my fingernails to cut myself.  All over.  I look back now, and it is so confusing, yet it was real, POWERFULLY real.  

June-ish, the yelling turned to my daughter.  I quickly jumped to her defense.  After he yelled at me for an hour or so, I found her in her room hiding under her desk.  Unacceptable.  I began to pack.  He told the three of us to get the fu*k out.  I drove for hours trying to pull myself together and figure out where to go.  I was so ashamed.  We hid for the next several months, he always found us.  I was fired from my new job because he would come and pace around outside.  

...

I am writing this, because at that time, you guys were very important to me.  Though I did not make contact, I hoped somehow you could help me ~ help us.  I hurt so badly for what happened to him, and I hurt so badly for what happened to each of you.  I wish you all goodness, whatever that is for you.

...

Father's Day was last weekend.  I can't help to think of Powerful Attitude.  I loved him, and I wanted to be there when he made it through all of the "Hidden Memories".  I was not as powerful, just powerful enough to leave.

I look back at these posts when he was raving and wow.  Just to clarify, he was on drugs at that time, I suspect speed.  He has not seen the kids in over a year and a half.  He has not held down a "real" job.  He has not been well.  It was me who asked him what the name of that place was.

...

Not sure what made me get on this website tonight, but here I am.  During that time, there are several of you that I wanted to find.  I wanted to call you and tell you what was happening in my home.  I wanted someone to understand (or try to understand).  I wanted someone to make me laugh.  (Some of you guys would crack me up, even if it was about my husband.)  I never spoke to you then, but you were my friends.

One thing you probably should keep in mind is that it is ever so easy for program vets to use their experience as an excuse for their pathetic shortcomings in life.  Yes, it sucked, yes I have friends today that are dead because of it, yes it has caused long term effects in many of us, myself included.  However, there are also a great many people that have risen above what happened to them 20-30 years ago and have done very well in life, including assuming the role of a decent husband and father.  There are millions of people in the world that have experienced trauma in one shape, form, or another including POWs, holocaust victims, etc. that do not use their experience as a scapegoat to justify failure or misfortune in life.  When you say "I hurt so badly for what happened to each of you" I want to stop you in your tracks.  Please don't "hurt" for me, your pain would be much worse than that of my own.   I experienced what I did and I try each and every day to move on and away from it rather than sensationalize what a travisty it all was.  It was a long time ago in a galaxy far away.  Personally speaking, admittedly it is always with me, but I have the control.  I am not "powerless" over my program experience.  I have a life to live and am much more than a heap of broken remnants from yesteryear.

Sounds like you may of done the right thing by packing your bags.  Maybe he needs some time to figure things out.  All this straight related  internet stuff can be quite overwhelming at first.  My experience is not subject for discussion with my own spouse.  My spouse wasn't there and I could explain all day long and print volumes from the internet but my spouse would never fully comprehend or understand.  My spouse doesn't need to understand the details of my experience and it's not my job to force her to try to understand.  That is the epitome of futility.

If you are in Bible study and your husband is on speed, maybe there is someone else that may really take time to consider you and your children.  Maybe someone that wouldn't be abusive nor preoccupied with yesterday's misfortune.  Then again, I am not Dear Abby nor Dr. Phil and cannot begin to have any answers.  

I wish you and your children goodness, what ever that means to you.  I also wish resolve and direction for your husband.

I know many post will follow mine that will shred my words to you here, and that is ok.  These are my thoughts on the matter.  I haven't the need to cater to the masses.  I left that behind in the program.

[Valhalla]

One thing you probably should keep in mind is that it is ever so easy for program vets to use their experience as an excuse for their pathetic shortcomings in life.  Yes, it sucked, yes I have friends today that are dead because of it, yes it has caused long term effects in many of us, myself included.  However, there are also a great many people that have risen above what happened to them 20-30 years ago and have done very well in life, including assuming the role of a decent husband and father.  There are millions of people in the world that have experienced trauma in one shape, form, or another including POWs, holocaust victims, etc. that do not use their experience as a scapegoat to justify failure or misfortune in life.  When you say "I hurt so badly for what happened to each of you" I want to stop you in your tracks.  Please don't "hurt" for me, your pain would be much worse than that of my own.   I experienced what I did and I try each and every day to move on and away from it rather than sensationalize what a travisty it all was.  It was a long time ago in a galaxy far away.  Personally speaking, admittedly it is always with me, but I have the control.  I am not "powerless" over my program experience.  I have a life to live and am much more than a heap of broken remnants from yesteryear.

Sounds like you may of done the right thing by packing your bags.  Maybe he needs some time to figure things out.  All this straight related  internet stuff can be quite overwhelming at first.  My experience is not subject for discussion with my own spouse.  My spouse wasn't there and I could explain all day long and print volumes from the internet but my spouse would never fully comprehend or understand.  My spouse doesn't need to understand the details of my experience and it's not my job to force her to try to understand.  That is the epitome of futility.

If you are in Bible study and your husband is on speed, maybe there is someone else that may really take time to consider you and your children.  Maybe someone that wouldn't be abusive nor preoccupied with yesterday's misfortune.  Then again, I am not Dear Abby nor Dr. Phil and cannot begin to have any answers.  

I wish you and your children goodness, what ever that means to you.  I also wish resolve and direction for your husband.

I know many post will follow mine that will shred my words to you here, and that is ok.  These are my thoughts on the matter.  I haven't the need to cater to the masses.  I left that behind in the program.

I think this post was great and can't really see anyone here tearing it apart, but then there are those few...

I wish you all the best in your life and hope that you and your children can get passed what you've been thru with your husband.

[Anonymous]

I have also not told my husband I was in a program....it would be pointless... it is my responsibility to educate myself and heal so I can be healthy for my family....no one elses...it is not easy and more info needs to be 'out there' for sure....more real and true advocating for teens for their human rights and dignity.....

[Anonymous]

...Human rights and dignity...

...as if we weren't human.

Namaste.

[Anonymous]

programs treat you as if you are not human and they erode your dignity.....clear enough now??? if teenager werent such a bad word and a teenager/child had 'power' and 'rights'...this would not go on...society is not educated on this stage of development........

[Anonymous]

That was a statement, not a question.  I was reflecting on your words and agreeing with you.

Yes, it's always been quite clear.

[Anonymous]

sorry...always so defensive.....I think I always have to fight... that I'm not allowed my free speech.......I still feel paranoid after 20 yrs out of straight.....I still feel somehow I have no rights.....I want so bad to not regress to that place of complete isolation and lack of freedoms....I am an adult now with very adult resposibilities....whats up?

[Anonymous]

also in US we had animal rights before we had children rights...we as a society treat pets better than people especially children

[Anonymous]

One thing you probably should keep in mind is that it is ever so easy for program vets to use their experience as an excuse for their pathetic shortcomings in life.  Yes, it sucked, yes I have friends today that are dead because of it, yes it has caused long term effects in many of us, myself included.  However, there are also a great many people that have risen above what happened to them 20-30 years ago and have done very well in life, including assuming the role of a decent husband and father.  There are millions of people in the world that have experienced trauma in one shape, form, or another including POWs, holocaust victims, etc. that do not use their experience as a scapegoat to justify failure or misfortune in life.  

And there are MILLIONS who don't rise up because they CANT. you act as if its a fucking choice!  

So therefore, because your brain works in a way where it allowed you to move on, because you didn't suffer as badly long term and were ABLE To  , this somehow makes YOU a Good or better person then someone, who Might have say been  chemically imbalanced or just couldn't handle it? Because after all everything is equal right? we are all on a level playing field right? How ludacris. I wouldn't BEGIN to judge ONE MANS journey by my own accomplishments or anyone else. How extremely ignorant and unfair of YOU!

I guess those who are dead, those Who killed themselves, just weren't GOOD enough, better off without them we must be! Maybe one day you will wake up and realize the mind is a very fragile thing, and while some can EASILY bounce back some NEVER will and its NOT ALWAYS a choice my friend. Everyone is doing what they can do get by and it's so much easier when you have support instead of judgment.  SO you left it behind. WOO FUCKIN HOO! Good job! Everyone else SUCKS!  I'll pass that shit on to my dead brother. mm k.

[Anonymous]

also in US we had animal rights before we had children rights...we as a society treat pets better than people especially children

yep! absofuckinglutely!

prisoners of war have more rights, well they used to until we started abusing them the same way they do to  kids in  certain rehabs....      

[Anonymous]

I think this post was great and can't really see anyone here tearing it apart, but then there are those few...

I wish you all the best in your life and hope that you and your children can get passed what you've been thru with your husband.

Oh i found a few bull shit things to tear apart.

[Anonymous]

I think this post was great and can't really see anyone here tearing it apart, but then there are those few...

I wish you all the best in your life and hope that you and your children can get passed what you've been thru with your husband.

Oh i found a few bull shit things to tear apart.

What happened to the " peace and enlightenment" post that followed this one, as well as the reply?

[Froderik]

What do you mean what happened to them?

[Anonymous]

thanks for your post guest bunny...i thought it was my fault all over again after reading the post about moving on and everyone having been through trama....

[Anonymous]

One thing you probably should keep in mind is that it is ever so easy for program vets to use their experience as an excuse for their pathetic shortcomings in life.  Yes, it sucked, yes I have friends today that are dead because of it, yes it has caused long term effects in many of us, myself included.  However, there are also a great many people that have risen above what happened to them 20-30 years ago and have done very well in life, including assuming the role of a decent husband and father.  There are millions of people in the world that have experienced trauma in one shape, form, or another including POWs, holocaust victims, etc. that do not use their experience as a scapegoat to justify failure or misfortune in life.  

And there are MILLIONS who don't rise up because they CANT. you act as if its a fucking choice!  

So therefore, because your brain works in a way where it allowed you to move on, because you didn't suffer as badly long term and were ABLE To  , this somehow makes YOU a Good or better person then someone, who Might have say been  chemically imbalanced or just couldn't handle it? Because after all everything is equal right? we are all on a level playing field right? How ludacris. I wouldn't BEGIN to judge ONE MANS journey by my own accomplishments or anyone else. How extremely ignorant and unfair of YOU!

I guess those who are dead, those Who killed themselves, just weren't GOOD enough, better off without them we must be! Maybe one day you will wake up and realize the mind is a very fragile thing, and while some can EASILY bounce back some NEVER will and its NOT ALWAYS a choice my friend. Everyone is doing what they can do get by and it's so much easier when you have support instead of judgment.  SO you left it behind. WOO FUCKIN HOO! Good job! Everyone else SUCKS!  I'll pass that shit on to my dead brother. mm k.

Guest Bunny (I can't type that with a straight face) If you want to shred what I have to say to this wife and mother experiencing turbulent times go ahead, I knew you would.  Shame you have nothing to offer, I'm one up on you already.

You say

there are MILLIONS who don't rise up because they CANT

"Can't" rise up?  Y'see, you wacky wabbit, that is where we differ.  I spent many many years of my life listening to what others tell me I can't do.  "Can't" is a word that is long since gone from my vocabulary and is not an excuse for the manner in which I choose to live.  That's right bunny-ol-buddy, for me it is a choice.  A choice that I make each and every day.   I have too many friends from the program that have chosen to die, contrarily I have chosen to live.  I live each and every day and I do so freely.  I am not dead, nor insane, nor in jail.  The program was wrong.  The choices I make keep me alive, sane, free, and happy.

You say:

So therefore, because your brain works in a way where it allowed you to move on

Look 'Hare' bunny--My brain is no different than yours or anyone else.  The decisions I make sound to be vastly different from some though.  I do not say that with any condescension.  We make different decisions on a daily basis.  I may order a Chimay and you may order a Budweiser does that mean I am "better" in any regard, not at all.  We all make different decisions.  Plain and simple.  Some choose to take their own life, I choose to live.  

I like to think that I haven't surrendered, forfeited, nor traded my own personal responsibility for any excuses which scapegoat the program for my shortcomings in life.  I have met those that stub their toe and curse STRAIGHT for the fact that if they weren't stuck in group all those years that they would have been walking around in the free world.  Therefore naturally they would have had more experience with walking and of course wouldn't have stubbed their toe.  Damn that STRAIGHT!!  Bullshit!!

You say:

because you didn't suffer as badly long term

C'mon funny bunny, keep it real.  You have no idea who I am, how long I was there, nor what I suffered.  The fact that my words are not that of some wretched shell shocked remnant of a person because of my experience in the program has nothing to do with my tenure there or the fact that it was less tramautic for me than it was for anyone else.  

You say:

I wouldn't BEGIN to judge ONE MANS journey by my own accomplishments or anyone else.

You talking shit to me here doesn't exactly sound to be fair and impartial.  Granted my journey is a complicated one (as is all of ours), but it is one that has transformed my own bleeding wounds to less prominant permanent and indelible scars that will never heal.  However it has allowed me to carry on living my life in my own way.  

Allow me to firmly correct you, I didn't leave it all behind.  I will always have the scars of my experience and of loved ones I lost.  

In closing Guest Bunny, I am not judging anyone for anything.  I was simply typing my two cents for someone that might read it and might not.  I didn't mean for it sound like I am some enlightened buddha on a mountain with all the answers.  I'm not.[/quote]