Way more kids praise programs than attack them, why is that?

[DannyB II]

....

[Whooter]

Dear the prior poster
   Can you provide a link to the actual study you are referring to rather than hyperlinks to summaries of the studies prepared by a business trying to use the study to increase their business.  Thanks

Study



...

[Anne Bonney]

Finally we get you to admit that the studies exist!!  Yes they are independent !! Hooray!!

Sure, I admit that Aspen Ed conducts what they refer to as studies, which are more like surveys, with the kids being only a year out.  Doesn't really amount to anything clinical, longitudinal or unbiased though.

They were funded by Aspen and overseen by an independent agency to insure that there was no conflict of interest.  They have studies that run out one year.

So now we are looking for a study which covers out to say 5 years.  I haven’t seen one yet.  If you do let me know and I will post the link as soon as I see one.  If you find anyone who would like to fund the study I am sure Aspen would like to get one done for free!

If you want to hold out until they develop a 5 year study then that is fine and is your privilege.  We all have varying expectations and requirements.

Because, as we've been saying all along.....very often it takes years for the brainwashing to wear off and for the victim to realize the mindfuck they've been subjected to.


Now, how 'bout answering Phil's question...



Dear the prior poster
Can you provide a link to the actual study you are referring to rather than hyperlinks to summaries of the studies prepared by a business trying to use the study to increase their business. Thanks

[Whooter]

Finally we get you to admit that the studies exist!!  Yes they are independent !! Hooray!!

Sure, I admit that Aspen Ed conducts what they refer to as studies, which are more like surveys, with the kids being only a year out.  Doesn't really amount to anything clinical, longitudinal or unbiased though.

They were funded by Aspen and overseen by an independent agency to insure that there was no conflict of interest.  They have studies that run out one year.

So now we are looking for a study which covers out to say 5 years.  I haven’t seen one yet.  If you do let me know and I will post the link as soon as I see one.  If you find anyone who would like to fund the study I am sure Aspen would like to get one done for free!

If you want to hold out until they develop a 5 year study then that is fine and is your privilege.  We all have varying expectations and requirements.

Because, as we've been saying all along.....very often it takes years for the brainwashing to wear off and for the victim to realize the mindfuck they've been subjected to.


Now, how 'bout answering Phil's question...



Dear the prior poster
Can you provide a link to the actual study you are referring to rather than hyperlinks to summaries of the studies prepared by a business trying to use the study to increase their business. Thanks

Well, you may not like them and they may not be how you would design them.  But they are independent studies and they have been approved by an independent board to insure there were no conflict of interests.  There is no getting around that fact no matter how you try.

Hopefully there will be a study which reaches out 5 years at some point and then we can take a look at those results.  I think we can all agree that it would be helpful.  The more information the better.



...

[DannyB II]

...

[Anne Bonney]

Dear the prior poster
   Can you provide a link to the actual study you are referring to rather than hyperlinks to summaries of the studies prepared by a business trying to use the study to increase their business.  Thanks

Study



...

The one you cited before done by Canyon Research???  Owned by Ellen Behrens? and heavily associated with NATSAP?  Not really unbiased.

http://canyonrc.com/experience.html#clients

Check out their client list....

Aspen Education
Aspen Ranch
Academy at Swift River
Copper Canyon Academy
Family Light
Life Line
Mount Bachelor Academy
New Life
Northstar
Stone Mountain School
Sunhawk Academy
Turnabout Ranch
Youth Care



http://clients.morningstarinteractive.c ... mmitee.asp

The NATSAP Research committee members:

      John Santa, Ph.D. - Committee Chair, Montana Academy

      Ellen Behrens, Ph.D., Canyon Research and Consulting

      Rob Cooley, Ph.D., Catherine Freer Wilderness Therapy Expeditions
 
      Mike Gass, Ph.D., University of New Hampshire
 
      Kyle Gillette, Ph.D., Solstice RTC
   
      Michael Merchant, ANASAZI Foundation
   
      Beverly Richard, MSW, Three Springs
   
      Brent Hall, MS, Discovery Academy
   
      John Hall, LMFT, Telos
   
      Frank Bartolomeo, Ph.D., The Academy at Swift River
   
      Joanna Bettmann, Ph.D., Open Sky Wilderness Therapy

[Anne Bonney]

I wish Anne but it just is not true, actually you are the small percentage and your high middle class to upper class folks you hang with here.
Most of the folks we listen to here, came from middle to upper class  parents who paid for the treatment, though the treatment was probably bogus.
So Anne your right, in your world those 3 choices were probably not valid but outside your world where the masses live those choices are.

What??  I truly have no idea what the hell you're trying to say.

[pelberglaw]

dear anonymous

   I have seen and read the study you linked to.  Stripped of its wrapping it  compares how parents see their kids and kids see themselves  on the day they are sent into a program and the day they leave.  That kind of survey, even if dressed up with scientific language and statistics to make it look serious, is not worthy of discussion.   I thought from your earlier post that there was a one year follow up.  Has that been published? Is that true?  Where can I find it?  Thanks

[Anne Bonney]

Well, you may not like them and they may not be how you would design them.  But they are independent studies

 :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:

[Ursus]

Dear the prior poster
   Can you provide a link to the actual study you are referring to rather than hyperlinks to summaries of the studies prepared by a business trying to use the study to increase their business.  Thanks

Study

This study surveyed self-assessment at admission, and at discharge. No time whatsoever spent in the real world attempting to put into practice said gains. No professional assessment whatsoever, of the verity of said self-assessments.

The "one-year later" study you refer to... is this the one based on 17 cherry-picked successful graduates, most of whom were still living at home at time of survey?

[Whooter]

poke, poke poke,  jab, jab  .... Sorry, everyone.  I havent seen anyone come out against it in any professional capacity.  I think its fair to say that fornits wouldn't accept "any" study which shows the industry to be successful.

But that aside, we do have a study that is independent and overseen by a third party.  I am sure everyone here would have designed it differently but you were not involved.  But it doesnt void the study.  If you feel the study is tainted in anyway you should submit your concerns to the "Western Institute Review Board" and they will determine if your concerns are valid or not.  I think this would settle alot of people concerns.

Until that time we need to go with the facts that are on the table.



...

[pelberglaw]

Dear
  I am not interested in getting into a debate here about any of this.  I am simply asking you to refer me to the follow up study you referenced so that I can read it.
  Thanks

[Whooter]

dear anonymous

   I have seen and read the study you linked to.  Stripped of its wrapping it  compares how parents see their kids and kids see themselves  on the day they are sent into a program and the day they leave.  That kind of survey, even if dressed up with scientific language and statistics to make it look serious, is not worthy of discussion.   I thought from your earlier post that there was a one year follow up.  Has that been published? Is that true?  Where can I find it?  Thanks

Many people came out against many of the heart studies (initially) and most were professionals in the field.  But the studies stood the test of time and lead us to determine that cholesterol is bad for us and this lead to the development of coronary stents.
This (Aspen Study) consisted of about 1,000 families so the results are considerable.  When the population size was only 17 people had a problem with that too.  So I don’t see a study ever getting accepted here on fornits.  But this study stands within the professional community and that is what really counts.


I dont have the original study which was done 1 year out, at hand.  When I find I will toss a link up.



...

[pelberglaw]

Dear  
  I am not going to respond to your post because I will not get into a back and forth with an individual who declines to identify himself.  I find that creepy and I do not have enough time for it.      
  Please post a link to the follow up to the study you referenced because i would like to read and comment on it.  You seemed to have those other links at your fingertips.  
  Thanks

[Ursus]

dear anonymous

I have seen and read the study you linked to.  Stripped of its wrapping it  compares how parents see their kids and kids see themselves  on the day they are sent into a program and the day they leave.  That kind of survey, even if dressed up with scientific language and statistics to make it look serious, is not worthy of discussion.   I thought from your earlier post that there was a one year follow up.  Has that been published? Is that true?  Where can I find it?  Thanks

Many people came out against many of the heart studies (initially) and most were professionals in the field.  But the studies stood the test of time and lead us to determine that cholesterol is bad for us and this lead to the development of coronary stents.
This (Aspen Study) consisted of about 1,000 families so the results are considerable.  When the population size was only 17 people had a problem with that too.  So I don’t see a study ever getting accepted here on fornits.  But this study stands within the professional MARKETING community and that is what really counts.

I dont have the original study which was done 1 year out, at hand.  When I find I will toss a link up.

Fixed that for ya!  :seg: