Mount Bachelor Academy Shut Down

[psy]

Until this becomes a criminal case the right to an attempt to malign their accusers should be withheld from them, but sadly when defending the indefensible plenty of attorneys will rack up the billable hours in an attempt to do just that.

Well they have reason to check out the people who are accusing them.  It has already been established that people are willing to lie openly to discredit a program.

Please stop pretending like things have been established that have no been.  Cite your sources.

Look at AARC for example, where a graduate was caught lieing about them.

Looking to see evidence of that.  Source?

http://www.calgarysun.com/news/alberta/ ... tml#medium

Just because somebody is accused of something does not mean they are guilty.  This is not a program.  Thankfully, outside of the twilight zone there is due process and a person can defend themselves and win.

Now of course you're going to bring up the fact that AARC shoudl be given that same benefit of the doubt.  I can agree with that.  Hopefully in time AARC will fine itself on the receiving end of a lawsuit and/or criminal prosecution.  When that happens, these accusations of abuse, which have been substantiated by many people, can be used to finally hold the program accountable.  Until that time, people are free to make up their own minds based on the allegations that are out there, and personally, I think those leveled against AARC are far more grave than those against Chrisine.

[Whooter]

Until this becomes a criminal case the right to an attempt to malign their accusers should be withheld from them, but sadly when defending the indefensible plenty of attorneys will rack up the billable hours in an attempt to do just that.

Well they have reason to check out the people who are accusing them.  It has already been established that people are willing to lie openly to discredit a program.

Please stop pretending like things have been established that have no been.  Cite your sources.

Look at AARC for example, where a graduate was caught lieing about them.

Looking to see evidence of that.  Source?

http://www.calgarysun.com/news/alberta/ ... tml#medium

Just because somebody is accused of something does not mean they are guilty.  This is not a program.  Thankfully, outside of the twilight zone there is due process and a person can defend themselves and win.

Now of course you're going to bring up the fact that AARC shoudl be given that same benefit of the doubt.  I can agree with that.  Hopefully in time AARC will fine itself on the receiving end of a lawsuit and/or criminal prosecution.  When that happens, these accusations of abuse, which have been substantiated by many people, can be used to finally hold the program accountable.  Until that time, people are free to make up their own minds based on the allegations that are out there, and personally, I think those leveled against AARC are far more grave than those against Chrisine.

I think you know that was my point.  If people accuse programs of abuse etc. posters here don’t jump in with the same phrase: “Just because somebody is accused of something does not mean they are guilty.”

[psy]

I think you know that was my point.  If people accuse programs of abuse etc. posters here don’t jump in with the same phrase: “Just because somebody is accused of something does not mean they are guilty.”

You wrote "A graduate was caught lieing about them" and "It has already been established that people are willing to lie openly to discredit a program".  Those are both statements of fact (false statements of fact at that).  "Abuse" is a matter of opinion, one that is clearly and loudly elaborated on.  An opinion cannot be proven true of false and thus guilt or innocence is in the eyes of whoever agrees of disagrees with the charges.  Everybody is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

[Whooter]

I think you know that was my point.  If people accuse programs of abuse etc. posters here don’t jump in with the same phrase: “Just because somebody is accused of something does not mean they are guilty.”

You wrote "A graduate was caught lieing about them" and "It has already been established that people are willing to lie openly to discredit a program".  Those are both statements of fact (false statements of fact at that).  "Abuse" is a matter of opinion, one that is clearly and loudly elaborated on.  An opinion cannot be proven true of false and thus guilt or innocence is in the eyes of whoever agrees of disagrees with the charges.  Everybody is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

Same thing.  If a kid says the program abused me or I was raped or beaten then this is just hearsay until the program or staff are proven guilty.  The program or accused should get a chance to defend themselves before judgement is passed either way.

[Anonymous]

I think you know that was my point.  If people accuse programs of abuse etc. posters here don’t jump in with the same phrase: “Just because somebody is accused of something does not mean they are guilty.”

You wrote "A graduate was caught lieing about them" and "It has already been established that people are willing to lie openly to discredit a program".  Those are both statements of fact (false statements of fact at that).  "Abuse" is a matter of opinion, one that is clearly and loudly elaborated on.  An opinion cannot be proven true of false and thus guilt or innocence is in the eyes of whoever agrees of disagrees with the charges.  Everybody is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

Same thing.  If a kid says the program abused me or I was raped or beaten then this is just hearsay until the program or staff are proven guilty.  The program or accused should get a chance to defend themselves before judgement is passed either way.

Fornits cannot "pass judgement" in any way that enforces a law or punishment. Everyone on this board has the right to make their own judgements based on what others say, and to examine the facts. Thats why I preffer facts over opinions, like this one

http://ficanetwork.net/death-row-serial ... d-to-cedu/

MBA... a direct Cedu spin off. Make your own choices parents. Is this a chance you want to take with your child?

[Whooter]

Fornits cannot "pass judgement" in any way that enforces a law or punishment. Everyone on this board has the right to make their own judgements based on what others say, and to examine the facts.

I think it is one of those rare times where we all agree.

[Anonymous]

I think you know that was my point.  If people accuse programs of abuse etc. posters here don’t jump in with the same phrase: “Just because somebody is accused of something does not mean they are guilty.”

You wrote "A graduate was caught lieing about them" and "It has already been established that people are willing to lie openly to discredit a program".  Those are both statements of fact (false statements of fact at that).  "Abuse" is a matter of opinion, one that is clearly and loudly elaborated on.  An opinion cannot be proven true of false and thus guilt or innocence is in the eyes of whoever agrees of disagrees with the charges.  Everybody is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

Same thing.  If a kid says the program abused me or I was raped or beaten then this is just hearsay until the program or staff are proven guilty.  The program or accused should get a chance to defend themselves before judgement is passed either way.

Until this becomes a criminal case the right to an attempt to malign their accusers should be withheld from them, but sadly when defending the indefensible plenty of attorneys will rack up the billable hours in an attempt to do just that.

Well they have reason to check out the people who are accusing them.  It has already been established that people are willing to lie openly to discredit a program.

Please stop pretending like things have been established that have no been.  Cite your sources.

Look at AARC for example, where a graduate was caught lieing about them.

Looking to see evidence of that.  Source?

http://www.calgarysun.com/news/alberta/ ... tml#medium

Lunn said she was forced to retract the allegation in writing or face being demoted … taking even longer to get out of the program.

What I see there from that link, is a program silencing their accuser by pressuring her to retract her statement with threats.
This does not bode well for the children transferred from MBA to other Aspen programs. It may well be out of concern for the possibility such witness intimidation that the DHS has only provided redacted copies of statements.

Man I hope some of the MBA stuff goes to court. I would love for this to get more exposure—twenty years of abuse. I know for some states even if the abuse was a long time ago statue of limitations is 3 years from when you discover what you went through was abuse. It would shine a light on what past abusive staff are doing now, like Tim Brace at Carlbrook.

[Basedonfacts]

Is the MBA program being shut down because of abuse or because of a few disgruntled spoiled a$$ brats that were for once in their lives told NO?

I find it humorous that this school is being shut down and very little facts haev been presented anywhere except for some "shall remain nameless" shrink who thinks he knows whats best.

This school will re-open and the people behind trying to slam the program and the people runnign it better call their lawyers.

The only disgrace here is a program that is doing things to help straighten out a few troubled kids is suffering based on the words of a few that are clearly unsubstantiated.

Oh and by the way, "Bans" are put in place because kids with the inability to behave and do what they are told cant handle rules and regulations. See, these are the same kids we read about as they head off to jail for committing violent crimes.

[Anonymous]

F.U. TROLL!

[Basedonfacts]

Again "guest" share with us why you feel the need to be anonymous

[blombrowski]

Oh and by the way, "Bans" are put in place because kids with the inability to behave and do what they are told cant handle rules and regulations. See, these are the same kids we read about as they head off to jail for committing violent crimes.

That you would come on here and defend the use of "Bans", which at last check even the most prominent educational consultants in this industry were trying to distance themselves from as an acceptable practice , either tells me that:

a.  You're a disgruntled former MBA/CEDU empolyee
b.  You're a program following graduate of a CEDU program/CEDU clome
c.  You're an apologist for child abuse (or if you prefer the violation of the human rights of youth)
d.  All or any of the above

[Anonymous]

Shameful really is your response that I woudl condone child abuse. You sir are a total f'ing clown to even make a statement like that.

I went through a program and it was the best thign that happened to me. Maybe if we werent so concerned about hurting peoples feelings and being PC maybe we would raise a better brand of teens nowadays.

I am sure you have a kid that went through a program and know all about it. I would certianly hope so otherwise close your mouth and get your facts straight.

[blombrowski]

a. You're a disgruntled former MBA/CEDU empolyee
b. You're a program following graduate of a CEDU program/CEDU clome
c. You're an apologist for child abuse (or if you prefer the violation of the human rights of youth)
d. All or any of the above

Guest, you might want to work on your reading comprehension.  Note, I said a,b,c, or d.  From the content of your reply, I would have to say that (b) would be the answer that applies to you.  So maybe you're not an apologist for child abuse.  But let's say that c. does apply to you.  Note the parenthesis in answer c.  So perhaps what I call child abuse is what you would consider what a spoiled brat deserves.  What I consider child abuse (i.e. punishing a young person by denying that young person the right to speak for extended periods of time) is considered a violation of human rights by the United Nations.  If that makes me politically correct so be it.  If you think what is contained in the Declaration of Human Rights or the Covenant on the RIghts of the Child is bullshit, I guess we know where we stand then.  Maybe you think that minors have no human rights, like the right to not be detained against their will without due process.  I guess we have a difference of opinion then.

[Anonymous]

Basedonfacts, what you consider acceptable is, in fact, unacceptable to society and to the law. In addition, the Lifestep LGAT marathon therapy sessions (which were basically CEDU Propheets, with minor changes) are a model that I contend, if the scripts were made public, would astound any mental health professional with any sort of training whatsoever with their ineffectiveness and potential for grave and lasting psychological harm.

[Basedonfacts]

Until either of you actually sit through one of the sessions and go through the programs, I suggest you stop basing your points on conjecture and other peoples opinions.

Yes I did go through the program at Hilltop in 1987-1989. I can safely attest that had I not gone through this program, I would surely be dead by now. That is something that is not taught in the program or perpetrated through rumor or conjecture, rather it is fact.

Additionally, if you consider what these programs are doing as child abuse, then I really would wonder what your definition is of child abuse.

Additionally, teens and young adults are brighter and more intelligent today than they were 20 years ago. With more access to information they should be. But that doesnt mean they have the right to do whatever it is that they please.

I raise my kids to know the difference between right and wrong. To respect others and themselves as well. Many of the people that are in these programs or were in these programs have no respect for themselves, authority, their parents, or even the law. How might you suggest we deal with those types? A hug? A pat on teh back and say its ok promise you wont do it again?

For every program that is out there that violates the commons laws in place that govern these institutions, there are programs out there and people running them with the very best of intentions. To make blanket statements like this is child abuse or that I condone child abuse is flat out insane.

So yes, I would fall into category "B" as someone who completed the program. Dont regret it for a minute and will defend the people that helped me to the grave.


I suggest rather than being judgemental and base your information on uninformed sources, try attending a rap or a propheet and see what really happens. You might just learn something. Otherwise, dont EVER suggest anyone condones child abuse. If you wanna bring a comment like that to me, I am sure I would love to meet and discuss it with you personally.