Author Topic: A CAFETY ISSUE (Read 3621 times)

Anonymous · « **on:** October 01, 2009, 11:22:41 AM »

I'll be damned if I'd ever handle well, a life involving my fellow Americans' tax dollars supporting programs on the lobbying advice and subsequent government decisions based (in part) on approvals set forth by CAFETY and its management!!
Sure, these people are survivors, lawyers, politicians, whatever.... yeah, they spoke on CapHill. But, it seems to me that a significant amount of hard work to STOP the abuse/fraud is being circumvented by these lobbying efforts. That smacks of a "can't beat em, join em" attitude.
When does Scheff get her voice back? :roflmao: What a mess!!! :smashcomp:

Che Gookin · « **Reply #1 on:** October 01, 2009, 12:12:50 PM »

Could you be more specific?

How exactly is this happening and what exactly is happening?

Anonymous · « **Reply #2 on:** October 01, 2009, 04:01:16 PM »

Yeah....very confused what you mean here.

Anonymous · « **Reply #3 on:** October 02, 2009, 01:32:08 PM »

Well, let's see here... the hubub generated by CAFETY and HR911 give the appearance that very concerted efforts are being made by CAFETY to have this bill passed. That sounds like lobbying... Correct me if this is not true.

It seems that if HR911 were passed, folks like Sue Scheff would have yet another shield to hide behind and the door to "illegitimate" treatment would get wider. Every time laws are passed, people and companies find ways around them. Although not a cure-all by any standards, the original bill was the best rendition. All subsequent bills have had very little teeth.

Call this HR911 a license to pollute, so to speak, like the EPA charges fines and hefty permit fees for industries to pollute water, ground, air, etc...

It would be very discouraging for me to live in a country that supports systematic abuse and torture of kids, in part due to the efforts of the "victims" of same to sway the government into such law. Perplexed is how I feel right now. Been that way for a long time.

Last but not least,
Presenting ISAC Corporation as a "survivor group" instead of an "organization" on CAFETY.org, well, that is an incorrect classification. FYI: ISAC became a 501c3 organization in 2003...

Anonymous · « **Reply #4 on:** October 06, 2009, 02:18:20 AM »

Still confused, lobbying simply means dialoguing w/ politicians and hoping to sway them to your point of view. Whats the problem?

Also, I don't see where ISAC is listed as a group? Or why it matters, frankly.

Anonymous · « **Reply #5 on:** October 06, 2009, 11:06:13 AM »

It's easy... its all about the issues of supporting and opposing programs, many of whom are abusive, fraudulent, etc... scroll back in the forums here, you'll see what I mean. If you're new here, it may take a while.

analogy:

The DFAF talks about how bad drugs are, etc... all the while lobbying Congress to make rules about drugs... like they are some kind of experts. They have doctors, lawyers, "professionals" etc... on board that make them appear as some kind of formidable force in the drug war.

BTW, How did CAFETY get involved in this lobbying business? The original bill came out a couple years or so before CAFETY became of age... so to speak.

As far as the org/group thing... http://cafety.org/sites-we-like well, you're right... who cares? :roflmao:

My personal opinion is that as long as John Boehner is in Congress, this bill will never become law. I'm pretty sure he's the one that killed the first rendition. Yep, him and his buddies from Ohio.

Deprogrammed · « **Reply #6 on:** October 06, 2009, 06:23:33 PM »

Quote from: "I'LL BE DAMNED"

It's easy... its all about the issues of supporting and opposing programs, many of whom are abusive, fraudulent, etc... scroll back in the forums here, you'll see what I mean. If you're new here, it may take a while.

analogy:

The DFAF talks about how bad drugs are, etc... all the while lobbying Congress to make rules about drugs... like they are some kind of experts. They have doctors, lawyers, "professionals" etc... on board that make them appear as some kind of formidable force in the drug war.

BTW, How did CAFETY get involved in this lobbying business? The original bill came out a couple years or so before CAFETY became of age... so to speak.

As far as the org/group thing... http://cafety.org/sites-we-like well, you're right... who cares? :roflmao:

My personal opinion is that as long as John Boehner is in Congress, this bill will never become law. I'm pretty sure he's the one that killed the first rendition. Yep, him and his buddies from Ohio.

I agree with you, especially on the Ohio John Boehner point.

Che Gookin · « **Reply #7 on:** October 07, 2009, 12:08:07 AM »

Quote from: "I'LL BE DAMNED"

It's easy... its all about the issues of supporting and opposing programs, many of whom are abusive, fraudulent, etc... scroll back in the forums here, you'll see what I mean. If you're new here, it may take a while.

I'm no CafetyFAN but I don't think I've ever seen them actually support a program. Could you clarify this point some with specific references?

Anonymous · « **Reply #8 on:** October 07, 2009, 01:31:54 AM »

Quote from: "Che Gookin"

Quote from: "I'LL BE DAMNED"
It's easy... its all about the issues of supporting and opposing programs, many of whom are abusive, fraudulent, etc... scroll back in the forums here, you'll see what I mean. If you're new here, it may take a while.

I'm no CafetyFAN but I don't think I've ever seen them actually support a program. Could you clarify this point some with specific references?

Why did you abuse children at Three Springs? Did you feel that was the only way to gain control?

Antigen · « **Reply #9 on:** October 07, 2009, 01:56:34 AM »

Ow gawd, this is freakin me out a li'll. I went looking for recent John Boehner (?b?-n?r) news cause I know that he has the distinction of being the first and, likely, only congress-critter crazy enough to come out publicly advocating torture by that name. Instead, I find this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7iY5P7woO8

Rick Sanches holds a special place in the hearts of So. Floridians. Back when the first wave of the BÜsh Reich started bombing the fuck out of Iraq, Rick Sanches hit a pedestrian on the way home from a football game. Unlike the rest of us, the cops let him go home, show, have a cup of coffee and some mouth wash and then return to the scene hours later for a pretend drunk test. Next thing ya know, he's promoted from half assed, half drunk local talking head to National Blow Dried Media Darlin on CNN. The joke of the day was if you found yourself trapped in an elevator with Sadam, Rick Sanches and only had one gun and two bullets, what would you do? Shoot Sanches twice and talk philosophy with Sadam till the firemen came.

That's it. I'm goin ta bed. Wish me happy dreams. :suicide:

Anonymous · « **Reply #10 on:** October 08, 2009, 04:32:48 AM »

Quote from: "I'LL BE DAMNED"

BTW, How did CAFETY get involved in this lobbying business? The original bill came out a couple years or so before CAFETY became of age... so to speak.

.

My understanding is that Kat Whitehead, who founded CAFETY, went to Capitol Hill in 2005 when the first bill was introduced, as a member of ASTART and working alongside Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law for a press briefing and met with George Miller then. After that, I guess after founding CAFETY, that continued under the auspice of CAFETY and sometimes ASTART.

Anonymous · « **Reply #11 on:** October 08, 2009, 01:36:59 PM »

I think CAFETY does good work both broad anf narrow in scope. They do a lot to get FFS to be held accountable and overlapping members work with FFS Truth. I also think MMS got shut down. And didn't Phil Elberg help get Thayer? He works with CAFETY also. :rocker:

Antigen · « **Reply #12 on:** October 08, 2009, 07:25:34 PM »

I'll be damned, I get what you're saying. By having a codified, legal set of guidelines by which the torture can legally continue the torture will continue with even more cover. And we all know there is no way to codify what we're talking about out of existance. I'm sitting here talking to a recent war vet, comparing notes.

The object of the Program is to break us. The object of minitary training is to make the recruit tough, high functioning and capable. Same tactics until you get down to the nitty gritty.

But I don't think we can stop it. Americans' first response to anything lately is "There ought to be a law and more public funding". It's shameful, but it's so. So since we can't stop it we may as well salvage what we can out of it. The process of making legislation and pursuing litigation always generate discussion. They serve to bring these issues to the attention of at least some of the public. Some years down the road the public concience may do the right thing. In the mean time, all we can do is get people to start thinking about it any way we can.

Whooter · « **Reply #13 on:** October 08, 2009, 07:47:11 PM »

The piece that may be missing is how many kids are being abused and tortured compared to the number being helped by the industry? It may sound insensitive but if this ratio can be improved then we are heading in the right direction and putting good efforts to work.

Do kids get raped by their teachers in public school? Of course they do (we have all read the articles) but the number being raped pales to the number who benefit the school system. So it continues forward. The same should be true of the programs. You will never get there unless you step back and look at the bigger picture and measure the positive effects (not just the negative). Fornits focuses only on the negative aspects of programs and I think that is where many at fornits miss the message and will never be part of the overall solution.

Ursus · « **Reply #14 on:** October 08, 2009, 08:14:04 PM »

Quote from: "Jim Bunson"

The piece that may be missing is how many kids are being abused and tortured compared to the number being helped by the industry? It may sound insensitive but if this ratio can be improved then we are heading in the right direction and putting good efforts to work.

Do kids get raped by their teachers in public school? Of course they do (we have all read the articles) but the number being raped pales to the number who benefit the school system. So it continues forward. The same should be true of the programs. You will never get there unless you step back and look at the bigger picture and measure the positive effects (not just the negative). Fornits focuses only on the negative aspects of programs and I think that is where many at fornits miss the message and will never be part of the overall solution.

Blah blah blah, same ol' refrain, one more time, probably for the benefit of newer marks.

Bunson, the flame in yer burner has gone out, and ya got left is gas escaping.

Rapes often happen in programs because kids' natural boundaries are eroded to abnormally low levels. That erosion is intentionally induced by the programs. "Break 'em down, to build them back up." Remember? Rapes which happen in public schools generally occur for different reasons.

Moreover, programs generally punish the victim for the rape, blaming her or him for somehow causing the event, or, at the very least, for being in some way responsible for it. The perpetrator generally gets off with a slap on the wrist, if not scot free. Not so in public schools. Plus, legal access is not denied to kids raped in public schools.

No comparison here, Bunson.

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