Most kids I met in a program are addicted, in jail or dead

[Anonymous]

I think there is a reason that there isn't program class reunions like high shchools. Can you imagine what it would be like if your program class had a reunion? How many kids would be on drugs, dead or in jail for a crime. I know the whole dead , in jail or insane thing is an annoying cliche. But there is definitely some truth to it!

[Antigen]

Yeah, the truth is that the high school buddies I've looked up or run into (the ones my mother and the program were saving me from?) they're fine. The only suicides, serious addicts and convicts I run into from my childhood and adolescence are Straightlings and Seedlings.

You'll be deadinsaneorinjail if you believe that's what will happen.

[Anonymous]

8 years out i'd say it's 50/50 of kids i know from "normal" school and program kids, who ended up deadinsaneorinjail. Mostly dead from prescription drug overdoses/bad combinations, a few committed suicide, and a whole bunch ended up in jail poverty due to drugs. oddly enough, no one i know died from the traditional illegal drugs, everyone died from prescription drugs.  no one turned insane though......the ones that were insane to start off with stayed that way, same with the sane ones. The only difference between them is that the program kids generally had more trouble adjusting to adult life, they usually wallowed around for a few years wandering aimlessly and drifting through life longer than the non-program kids before they found some direction

[Oscar]

There are no other statistics than one paid for by the industry and it shows that all made it to become senators, managers of big corporations and presidents.

However outside the world of marketing statistic professionals know that the outcome of how a child turns out is almost sure if it is repeatedly told that it is bad or a criminal.

There are also those who believe when the time has been done, the crime not committed yet can done.

A program as they are designed today will increase the risk of criminal behavior or even death.

[try another castle]

My peer group hasn't, but I do know that the peer group my big sister was in has had at least one reunion. No idea how many people who attended were dead, though. Probably not many. They tend to suck the fun out of a room.

[Anonymous]

what an odd subject! I only know of a few kids who did hard-core drugs, (L.S.d., meth, coke, ) one of them turned completely into a peace and love hippie, gave up the motor-gang chain-whipping lifestyle, and the other became a serious felon. I know a man who is a decent, kind, hardworking fellow, will tell you about his meth experience.I  also know a decent man, a viet-vet, infantry, whose only love, then and now, has been 'chasing the dragon".. that means smoking heroin.
One of the saddest things i ever saw was his face, the day he told me he "gotta go chase that dragon" hell it was, and hell it remains. the yeyo people i dealt with almost invariably became psychotic, often dangerously so. I shut many of them down, so I live quietly these days.
I think, overall, that we as children were 'criminalized' in an effort to exert social control. that some of us believed it, and some of us didn't. For me, i know the stigma of "program has followed me, and follows me still.
to hell with the righteous. All sins are as fleabites, compared to the sin of pride.. C.S. Lewis

[Whooter]

It is perfectly natural that you would find this, if you took a survey of the people you met in prison a high percentage of them would be still into crime..  take a survey of the people you met in AA or in a bar you would find a higher than normal percentage still drinking alcohol or addicted...NA same thing.  Each group is unique based on the sub group you are studying.  These cannot be compared directly with a random cross section of the general population because they are (by definition) a "select group".  So naturally kids who attended programs would be more prone to living an at risk life style because  programs are not 100% effective and if they fail then the kid is going to go down the wrong path for sure.

[try another castle]

It is perfectly natural that you would find this, if you took a survey of the people you met in prison a high percentage of them would be still into crime..  take a survey of the people you met in AA or in a bar you would find a higher than normal percentage still drinking alcohol or addicted...NA same thing.  Each group is unique based on the sub group you are studying.  These cannot be compared directly with a random cross section of the general population because they are (by definition) a "select group".  So naturally kids who attended programs would be more prone to living an at risk life style because  programs are not 100% effective and if they fail then the kid is going to go down the wrong path for sure.

That's why most valid studies have MORE THAN ONE CONTROL GROUP. The generic, random sample control, as well as the" met-the-criteria-for-troubled-youth-but-was-never-placed" control.


They did studies like that with oh, I dunno, AA, and found that people who had drug problems but received NO treatment had just as high of a failure rate as those who were in 12 step or synanon. Which means, (for those who need clarification) according to the study, AA does NOTHING.

Oh  yeah, and guess who conducted the study? AA.

[Froderik]

I don't know about this statement being true for ex-program victims across the board; for some, sure, but I know others that are either doing ok or are well off.. so, no, not always...

[Anonymous]

I think there is a reason that there isn't program class reunions like high shchools. Can you imagine what it would be like if your program class had a reunion? How many kids would be on drugs, dead or in jail for a crime. I know the whole dead , in jail or insane thing is an annoying cliche. But there is definitely some truth to it!

They’re dead because they spent their formative years getting their brains damaged through thought reform and torture designed to, and quite effective at, inculcate mental crippling to a critical degree, not to mention being marginalized from greater society. You wont need two control groups to establish that.

[Whooter]

I think there is a reason that there isn't program class reunions like high shchools. Can you imagine what it would be like if your program class had a reunion? How many kids would be on drugs, dead or in jail for a crime. I know the whole dead , in jail or insane thing is an annoying cliche. But there is definitely some truth to it!

They’re dead because they spent their formative years getting their brains damaged through thought reform and torture designed to, and quite effective at, inculcate mental crippling to a critical degree, not to mention being marginalized from greater society. You wont need two control groups to establish that.

Where is the link to your long term, peer reviewed, independent control study which has been published in a medical journal by someone who has no knowledge of/ or connection to programs?  lol

[Anonymous]

I think there is a reason that there isn't program class reunions like high shchools. Can you imagine what it would be like if your program class had a reunion? How many kids would be on drugs, dead or in jail for a crime. I know the whole dead , in jail or insane thing is an annoying cliche. But there is definitely some truth to it!

They’re dead because they spent their formative years getting their brains damaged through thought reform and torture designed to, and quite effective at, inculcate mental crippling to a critical degree, not to mention being marginalized from greater society. You wont need two control groups to establish that.

Where is the link to your long term, peer reviewed, independent control study which has been published in a medical journal by someone who has no knowledge of/ or connection to programs?  lol

Cedu and like programs torture in a degree comparable to the CIA “torture light” and worse. The psychological damage CEDU & like programs are obviously intensified by its target of adolescents with the participation of their primary care givers (intentionally and otherwise) and their greater community (intentionally or otherwise,)

There have been many peer reviewed studies documenting the damage caused by torture, abuse, thought reform, and time in "programs."

here is one of many:
http://blogs.sciencemag.org/scienceinsi ... nt-pr.html

[Anonymous]

http://www.isaccorp.org/lifespring/life ... hology.pdf

[Whooter]

here is one of many:
http://blogs.sciencemag.org/scienceinsi ... nt-pr.html

one of many?  You havent given us one yet.  That isnt peer reviewed, published in a medical journal, independent, long termed and never even mentioned the program that was studied.  Was that HLA lol.

Come-on.... step it up!!!

[Whooter]

http://www.isaccorp.org/lifespring/lifespringpathology.pdf

Whoops missed again....no program mentioned,  missing comments on peer review, not long term and come-on..Assistant Professor of Psychology could not be considered independent.  He is in the field and getting paid…tsk,tsk.

This is merely 2 peoples opinion and can not be considered a study.  If you look at the date it was from 1983,  people were still buying into the zipless fuck by   Erica Jong for christs sake.

Come-on show us one study.