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Author Topic: Scientist/Clinician Speaks  (Read 5857 times)

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Offline ajax13

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Scientist/Clinician Speaks
« on: September 06, 2009, 02:28:32 PM »
"Who do you think u are!!
by Melissa Fowler » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:48 pm

So you read an article on Andy Evans and you think you know it all!!! Sober Andy was a great person!! He got alot out of his time at A.A.R.C he made the choices, It has nothing do with A.A.R.C! Andrew Mazer , who ever else you people are talking about made there own choices!! And A.A.R.C did not make up what you are born with it is genetic!! And useing drugs and alcohol changes you as a person!! Anyone living in that knows how you change!! We are born this way and it was being tought way before aarc was around, so to put the blame on a great place who I personally watched that staff give there all to help these people you are useing to put a bad name on aarc makes me sick.. you people need to get a life get out of denile and start taking resposibility for yourself and yr own lifes!! Cuz the only person that can do that is u!! A.A.R.C is a great place they cant help what we graduates decide 2 do once we leave, I have realapsed a few times and It was only my choice to not use the great tools they tought me... And somtimes the concicuenses are larger than others but I was the only one to blame."

According to Dr. Fowler, AARColytes are born that way, but then using alcohol and drugs changes them.  So they have a genetic disorder that causes them to use drugs but they have some tools that allow them to choose whether or not to use drugs, but sometimes they choose not to use the tools?  What are tools that allow AARColytes to exercise free will over an uncontrollable genetic disorder?

As an aside, the Wiz claims that even though most AARColytes relapse, they then become permanently "sober" at some point.  Melissa's multiple relapses don't seem to lend credence to the Wiz's unsupportable claim
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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"AARC will go on serving youth and families as long as it will be needed, if it keeps open to God for inspiration" Dr. F. Dean Vause Executive Director


MR. NELSON: Mr. Speaker, AADAC has been involved with
assistance in developing the program of the Alberta Adolescent
Recovery Centre since its inception originally as Kids of the
Canadian West."
Alberta Hansard, March 24, 1992

Offline TheWho

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Re: Scientist/Clinician Speaks
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2009, 03:19:08 PM »
Quote from: "ajax13"

As an aside, the Wiz claims that even though most AARColytes relapse, they then become permanently "sober" at some point.  Melissa's multiple relapses don't seem to lend credence to the Wiz's unsupportable claim

I might be able to help here......It seems you may not be familiar with the healing process or recovery.  It takes many attempts to get to the point where you can easily go an extended period of time without relapsing.  If any of you has ever tried or successfully quit smoking you will know that it takes many tries (10 on average) to successfully quit.  Each time you try and fail you learn something new and apply it to your next attempt.  So you get better at it each time and each time becomes a little easier.

What this Wiz guy is trying to say is that at some point you will succeed if you keep at it and if it is something you want. Programs like AA and AARC can only give you the tools to help you help yourself.  They cannot do the work for you.  Just because a person relapses doesn’t mean they are a failure.  Its just part of the process of recovery.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline ajax13

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Re: Scientist/Clinician Speaks
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2009, 03:44:23 PM »
Nice try JD.  If a person is repeatedly resuming and resuming their use of substances, then they are not successful examples of maintaining abstinence for the rest of their lives.

"AARC believes addicts must refrain from using drugs and alcohol for the rest of their lives."
http://www.aarc.ab.ca/the_AARC_program.html

AARC clients do not refrain from using drugs and alcohol for ther rest of their lives after graduating AARC.  Most resume using drugs and alcohol.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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"AARC will go on serving youth and families as long as it will be needed, if it keeps open to God for inspiration" Dr. F. Dean Vause Executive Director


MR. NELSON: Mr. Speaker, AADAC has been involved with
assistance in developing the program of the Alberta Adolescent
Recovery Centre since its inception originally as Kids of the
Canadian West."
Alberta Hansard, March 24, 1992

Offline TheWho

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Re: Scientist/Clinician Speaks
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2009, 03:51:46 PM »
Quote from: "ajax13"
Nice try JD.  If a person is repeatedly resuming and resuming their use of substances, then they are not successful examples of maintaining abstinence for the rest of their lives.

"AARC believes addicts must refrain from using drugs and alcohol for the rest of their lives."
http://www.aarc.ab.ca/the_AARC_program.html

AARC clients do not refrain from using drugs and alcohol for ther rest of their lives after graduating AARC.  Most resume using drugs and alcohol.

He is correct, they should refrain from using drugs, especially if they are highly addictive.  Addicts have a difficult time regulating their drugs and therefore need to refrain entirely for the rest of their lives.  But every person needs to go thru a series of relapses before they get to that point.  It is very rare for an addict to just say I quit and never go back to it the first time trying.

There are many people who I know have quit drinking but it took many trials to get there.  You dont seem to be very familiar with recovery at all, Ajax
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Offline ajax13

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Re: Scientist/Clinician Speaks
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2009, 03:55:27 PM »
They believe that their clients must refrain from using drugs and alcohol for ther rest of their lives.  Most of their clients do not refrain from using drugs and alcohol for the rest of their lives.  Most use drugs and alcohol after leaving AARC.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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"AARC will go on serving youth and families as long as it will be needed, if it keeps open to God for inspiration" Dr. F. Dean Vause Executive Director


MR. NELSON: Mr. Speaker, AADAC has been involved with
assistance in developing the program of the Alberta Adolescent
Recovery Centre since its inception originally as Kids of the
Canadian West."
Alberta Hansard, March 24, 1992

Offline TheWho

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Re: Scientist/Clinician Speaks
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2009, 04:03:34 PM »
Quote from: "ajax13"
They believe that their clients must refrain from using drugs and alcohol for ther rest of their lives.  Most of their clients do not refrain from using drugs and alcohol for the rest of their lives.  Most use drugs and alcohol after leaving AARC.

That’s the whole point in quitting is to refrain, Ajax.  Some people accomplish this after 1 or 2 relapses others take several tries.  But the important thing is that they are working at it.  They are not failures and just need some time and encouragement to succeed.

What would you tell people who left?  Its okay to have a drink or 2 once in awhile as long as you keep it under control?  No, you ask them to refrain for the rest of their lives!!  This is what they work towards.
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Offline ajax13

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Re: Scientist/Clinician Speaks
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2009, 04:07:08 PM »
Most AARC graduates do not refrain from using drugs and alcohol after leaving AARC.  They are sent into AARC under the auspices of getting them to cease using drugs and alcohol as they are purportedly dying from this use.  They do not cease using drugs and alcohol, but rather continue using drugs and alcohol upon leaving AARC.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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"AARC will go on serving youth and families as long as it will be needed, if it keeps open to God for inspiration" Dr. F. Dean Vause Executive Director


MR. NELSON: Mr. Speaker, AADAC has been involved with
assistance in developing the program of the Alberta Adolescent
Recovery Centre since its inception originally as Kids of the
Canadian West."
Alberta Hansard, March 24, 1992

Offline TheWho

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Re: Scientist/Clinician Speaks
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2009, 04:09:56 PM »
Quote from: "ajax13"
Most AARC graduates do not refrain from using drugs and alcohol after leaving AARC.  They are sent into AARC under the auspices of getting them to cease using drugs and alcohol as they are purportedly dying from this use.  They do not cease using drugs and alcohol, but rather continue using drugs and alcohol upon leaving AARC.

No not all, But 85% are able to refrain.  Thats much better than AA, if I recall.
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Offline ajax13

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Re: Scientist/Clinician Speaks
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2009, 04:11:46 PM »
Nice try JD.  They go into AARC to stop using drugs and alcohol, they continue using drugs and alcohol when they get out.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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"AARC will go on serving youth and families as long as it will be needed, if it keeps open to God for inspiration" Dr. F. Dean Vause Executive Director


MR. NELSON: Mr. Speaker, AADAC has been involved with
assistance in developing the program of the Alberta Adolescent
Recovery Centre since its inception originally as Kids of the
Canadian West."
Alberta Hansard, March 24, 1992

Offline TheWho

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Re: Scientist/Clinician Speaks
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2009, 04:44:55 PM »
Quote from: "ajax13"
Nice try JD.  They go into AARC to stop using drugs and alcohol, they continue using drugs and alcohol when they get out.

But 85% are living a sober life style after 4 years... some relapse some don’t.  You should really give the people credit whether they do or not.  It is a difficult road.  Why do you judge them so harshly?  Each person needs to find their own way.

If you understood addiction at all this wouldn’t be difficult for you to grasp.
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Offline ajax13

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Re: Scientist/Clinician Speaks
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2009, 07:56:42 PM »
Most AARC grads continue to use drugs and alcohol despite AARC's stated belief that these people should refrain from doing so for the rest of their lives.  The program is a failure.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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"AARC will go on serving youth and families as long as it will be needed, if it keeps open to God for inspiration" Dr. F. Dean Vause Executive Director


MR. NELSON: Mr. Speaker, AADAC has been involved with
assistance in developing the program of the Alberta Adolescent
Recovery Centre since its inception originally as Kids of the
Canadian West."
Alberta Hansard, March 24, 1992

Offline TheWho

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Re: Scientist/Clinician Speaks
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2009, 08:17:13 PM »
Quote from: "ajax13"
Most AARC grads continue to use drugs and alcohol despite AARC's stated belief that these people should refrain from doing so for the rest of their lives.  The program is a failure.

Well thats your opinion.  But the data on the table tells a different story.  If you have some facts to back it up lets take a look.

Do you have a link?
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Offline ajax13

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Re: Scientist/Clinician Speaks
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2009, 08:46:15 PM »
JD, it's not going away.  Ín your mania to compensate for killing your child you continue to try to derail the exchange of information about the programs, but it gets out regardless.  It's a pain in the ass to deal with you, but not enough of a pain in the ass to stop.  AARC got at least twenty promotions from the media, but because of Fornits, people were able to exchange information about the program's lack of licensed personnel, it's verifiable origin as Kids, as well as an array of other problems common to the Straight-Kids-AARC chain, and that the Fifth Estate found out about it.  You can't control it, and you can never get back at me.  You are completely impotent to stop what is happening.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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"AARC will go on serving youth and families as long as it will be needed, if it keeps open to God for inspiration" Dr. F. Dean Vause Executive Director


MR. NELSON: Mr. Speaker, AADAC has been involved with
assistance in developing the program of the Alberta Adolescent
Recovery Centre since its inception originally as Kids of the
Canadian West."
Alberta Hansard, March 24, 1992

Offline TheWho

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Re: Scientist/Clinician Speaks
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2009, 09:05:59 PM »
Quote from: "ajax13"
JD, it's not going away.  Ín your mania to compensate for killing your child you continue to try to derail the exchange of information about the programs, but it gets out regardless.  It's a pain in the ass to deal with you, but not enough of a pain in the ass to stop.  AARC got at least twenty promotions from the media, but because of Fornits, people were able to exchange information about the program's lack of licensed personnel, it's verifiable origin as Kids, as well as an array of other problems common to the Straight-Kids-AARC chain, and that the Fifth Estate found out about it.  You can't control it, and you can never get back at me.  You are completely impotent to stop what is happening.

Dont get all caught up in your underwear there buddy, slow down.
Look I appreciate the response and your attempt to derail the thread, but it seems you dont have a link to support your last post (as usual) or you would have posted it.  None of us can control anything Ajax, we are just discussing here.   No one is trying to control you, there is no conspiracy.... just words on the screen.  It would have been easier for you to have said, "I dont have any facts to support my post" and we could have moved on.
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Offline ajax13

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Re: Scientist/Clinician Speaks
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2009, 09:15:26 PM »
JD, you can't bury this like you did your son.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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"AARC will go on serving youth and families as long as it will be needed, if it keeps open to God for inspiration" Dr. F. Dean Vause Executive Director


MR. NELSON: Mr. Speaker, AADAC has been involved with
assistance in developing the program of the Alberta Adolescent
Recovery Centre since its inception originally as Kids of the
Canadian West."
Alberta Hansard, March 24, 1992
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