AA in Hollywood

[Anonymous]

Particularly on premium cable i've noticed this.  Take the sopranos for example, which i've recently been watching.  They perpetuate several AA myths:

- AA/NA is the only cure to alcohol/drug dependence
- alcoholism/addiction is a genetic disease (one character even says it's a scientific fact, which steppers like to claim but is actually bullshit)
- since it's a disease, people are not really responsible for their actions while drunk.
- alcoholics cannot resist picking up a drink so it's whoever's fault for putting it there.
- alcoholics/addicts cannot learn to moderate
- caffeine is a drug that is bad for recovery (Hazelden extremist sect of AA)
- any drug will inevitably lead to harder and harder drugs / one drink one drunk (in one scene valarian herbal tea quickly proceeds to heroin).

What angers me is that this shit is peddled as fact and isn't countered with any opposing view or even rational thought.  It's a sick fucking society today that takes the word of con artist drunk Bill Wilson as infallible gospel.  Religious cultic dogma and flawed folk wisdom are covertly peddled as science through entertainment media.  I really hate to use the "c" word but it's very very similar to cult propaganda techniques used by the Scientologists and others.  Sopranos is hardly the only example.  Dexter's second season revolves almost exclusively around a serial killer trying to get help for his "addiction" as if free will doesn't exist in AA/NA.  No.  It's a disease he's told and he learns to accept he's powerless over what he does which he is told defines who he is.  In the end he kills his sponsor.  Go figure!  Even in the TV shows AA's success rate ain't that great.

I guess my point is that I find AA's gospel offensive and I don't like to feel proselytized whenever I turn on the TV.  I don't even drink or do drugs.  It's just not based in science, hurts more people than it harms, and is marketed deceptively.  It seems like every TV show has to have it's token junkie asshole just to sell the program.  Personally, I hope the screenwriters in question relapse and fucking die.  Thankfully, with AA/NA that's a 95-97% statistical probability.

[Anonymous]

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/162067 ... j_am.jhtml
DJ AM's Memorial Format: What Is The 12-Step Program?
DJ AM's memorial on Thursday will use aspects of the program designed to help addicts; but what does it consist of?

On Thursday, DJ AM (born Adam Goldstein) will be remembered at a private ceremony at the Hollywood Palladium in Los Angeles that will use aspects of the 12-step program in paying tribute to him. The choice of structuring the memorial for the popular celebrity DJ, 36, who died of a suspected overdose on Friday in his New York apartment is fitting, given AM's 11 years of sobriety following a struggle with drugs in his early 20s and his commitment to helping others overcome their addictions through efforts such as his recently wrapped MTV show "Gone Too Far."

But what is a 12-step program and how does it help addicts get back on the right track? "Alcoholism and addiction is chronic, progressive and fatal if untreated," explained Robert Lindsey, president and CEO of the National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence. "One of the things we know is that there are millions of individuals in recovery and, just like those in recovery from chronic illnesses like heart disease and cancer, some will die from those illnesses because they relapse. And that is exactly what happened here." (Lindsey has no firsthand knowledge of the AM case, but was speaking about it based on news accounts.)

The 12 steps, which were developed nearly 80 years ago by the founders of Alcoholics Anonymous, are a guideline for addicts to first stop using, admit their addictions and then commit to making the changes in their life that will keep them drug and alcohol free. "Whether you're a doctor, lawyer, painter or unemployed, at a meeting you're all the same and you're all there for the same purpose," Lindsey said of the many different meetings for people suffering addictions to sex, drugs, alcohol, gambling or other problems. "The reality is that without that first step — admitting you are powerless over alcohol or other drugs — without that, nothing else can happen."

Lindsey said that with 22 million people over the age of 12 addicted to alcohol or drugs in this country, representing 9 percent of the U.S. population, the majority who have managed long-term recovery have done it through participation in an Alcoholics Anonymous-type program where the 12 steps are a key part of the process.

The standard 12 steps are:

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol — that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His Will for us and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

Like Alcoholics Anonymous gatherings, the DJ AM memorial will stress anonymity — organizers have requested that what is said and shared there not leave the room, with press barred from attending the event and attendees asked not to bring cameras, cell phones or recording devices.

"To a certain extent, the steps are literally a progressive attempt to work on different parts of changing your life," Lindsey said. "And it's about progress, not perfection ... you can use them to mark that progress."

[psy]

I was disappointed in the Sopranos as well. It felt like half the thing was a commercial for AA.  The amount of 12 step references weaved into the writing of the show was astounding.  I only hope one day that AA is seen for what it is: quackery, and other alternatives are presented to the general public.  Despite the fact that so many people quit on their own, such a story portrayed on TV would be seen as heretical or even dangerous to the 12 steppers and would pretty much be guaranteed to never be aired as a result.  As it is we're broadcasting AA and it's concepts as the "truth" about alcoholism, despite the fact that none of it whatsoever is based on science and much of it is demonstratively false.  Personally, I think those false "truths" do a lot of damage.  If you tell a person they can't control themselves and have a disease it's all the excuse for them to do a whole lot more of whatever they were doing.  I think this is the reason AA members have a 5 times higher rate of binge drinking over those with no treatment at all (a study done in the 70s).  I'd go so far to say that the increase in such behavior is due to the increased public indoctrination into AA's belief system.  I also think their ideas have a lot to do with the increased popularity of programs for teens.

[Anonymous]

 Lindsey said "The reality is that without that first step — admitting you are powerless over alcohol or other drugs — without that, nothing else can happen."

This is the root problem, the core essence of the LIES, FABRICATIONS, SUPERSTITONS, and BULLSHIT that are part-and-parcel of the "recovery movement" (i.e. fishing for cult followers).

Drugs and alcohol don't kill people-----12 Step programs do.

[Anonymous]

Drugs and alcohol don't kill people-----12 Step programs do.

There's probably a mortality impact from all of the above. 12 steps will kill your spirit before you die. Drugs and alchohol will either be responsibly used or severely abused. The latter can result in the death of spirit and body. 12 steps will replace one addiction with a mind altering narrowing system of overly simplistic cult beleifs...and then you die.

[Anonymous]

I find it facinating that so many people are willing to say they are "powerless" over alcohol while sitting in a meeting for an  hour without drinking, totally oblivious to the irony of it. :dose:
"recovery" would be a lot more effective when people understand that they have a lot of personal power and learn how to respect it and use it responsibility instead of sitting around drinking coffee, smoking and bonding (fellowship) with the "powerless" over drinking and drugging war stories.

[Anonymous]

Drugs and alcohol don't kill people-----12 Step programs do.

There's probably a mortality impact from all of the above. 12 steps will kill your spirit before you die. Drugs and alchohol will either be responsibly used or severely abused. The latter can result in the death of spirit and body. 12 steps will replace one addiction with a mind altering narrowing system of overly simplistic cult beleifs...and then you die.

I think i'll go and drink myself to death right now.

[psy]

Drugs and alcohol don't kill people-----12 Step programs do.

There's probably a mortality impact from all of the above. 12 steps will kill your spirit before you die. Drugs and alchohol will either be responsibly used or severely abused. The latter can result in the death of spirit and body. 12 steps will replace one addiction with a mind altering narrowing system of overly simplistic cult beleifs...and then you die.

I think i'll go and drink myself to death right now.

I think his point was that there are solutions other than AA

RBT
Rational Recovery
SMART
SOS
various forms of therapy
Moderation Management
just fucking stopping drinking

etc...

[Che Gookin]

What boggles my mind is how these Hollywierd morons manage to show off their drunken coke snorting ways as fashionable. I've wonder if their is a reasonable claim that can be made that they do more to encourage abuse of drugs and drink than they do discourage it with their yearly vacation to the local Betty Ford Clinic.

[Antigen]

http://www.playlist.com/searchbeta/trac ... se%20rehab

[Anonymous]

Anybody see the Law and order, SVU episode last night?  Fucking offensive that was.  It portrayed a lawyer arguing that addiction was not a disease as a closet drunk who (of course) shows up drunk to court, (of course) ends up admitting she has a problem, gets court ordered to rehab, and claims she's going to "make amends".  It makes it sound like anybody who takes that stance is in "denial".  It even portrayed a murderer and rapist (committed under the influence) in a sympathetic light because (cry me a river) he blacked out and couldn't remember the act.  Fucking insane.  It was like a commercial for AA.

[psy]

Anybody see the Law and order, SVU episode last night?  Fucking offensive that was.  It portrayed a lawyer arguing that addiction was not a disease as a closet drunk who (of course) shows up drunk to court, (of course) ends up admitting she has a problem, gets court ordered to rehab, and claims she's going to "make amends".  It makes it sound like anybody who takes that stance is in "denial".  It even portrayed a murderer and rapist (committed under the influence) in a sympathetic light because (cry me a river) he blacked out and couldn't remember the act.  Fucking insane.  It was like a commercial for AA.

Well.  You either agree with them or are in denial.  It's just the way they see it; what they believe.  It's like when you question Scientology, all the Scientologists suddenly assume you have "crimes" or are in league with the "psychs".  I "invaded" an online open meeting a while back and discussed some of these issues.  A few were amicable and open to discussion (mostly treating my like I'm ignorant) but most were rabidly against any critique of Bill Wilson's "god" (beladonna) inspired holy doctrine.  In between accusations of having a problem, I was told that my ideas were dangerous, especially to newcomers.  I get the feeling that the screenwriters for the particular episode you are describing were trying to dispel some of those "dangerous" ideas by publicly portraying their myth that all of their detractors are drunks who need to hit bottom, repent, and get themselves to a meeting.

[Anonymous]

Anybody see the Law and order, SVU episode last night?  Fucking offensive that was.  It portrayed a lawyer arguing that addiction was not a disease as a closet drunk who (of course) shows up drunk to court, (of course) ends up admitting she has a problem, gets court ordered to rehab, and claims she's going to "make amends".  It makes it sound like anybody who takes that stance is in "denial".  It even portrayed a murderer and rapist (committed under the influence) in a sympathetic light because (cry me a river) he blacked out and couldn't remember the act.  Fucking insane.  It was like a commercial for AA.

Well.  You either agree with them or are in denial.  It's just the way they see it; what they believe.  It's like when you question Scientology, all the Scientologists suddenly assume you have "crimes" or are in league with the "psychs".  I "invaded" an online open meeting a while back and discussed some of these issues.  A few were amicable and open to discussion (mostly treating my like I'm ignorant) but most were rabidly against any critique of Bill Wilson's "god" (beladonna) inspired holy doctrine.  In between accusations of having a problem, I was told that my ideas were dangerous, especially to newcomers.  I get the feeling that the screenwriters for the particular episode you are describing were trying to dispel some of those "dangerous" ideas by publicly portraying their myth that all of their detractors are drunks who need to hit bottom, repent, and get themselves to a meeting.

I wonder what it is that drives you to spend your time trolling online AA meetings. Do you think everybody is so stupid they will be tricked by the evil AA unless you enlighten them? How arrogant of you. Maybe you care to explain to everyone what it is that bothers you so much about a voluntary organization that helps people save thier lives. What did AA do that harmed you so much that makes you so bitter against them? Just because a program says they are using AA in their program doesn't mean that's what AA in the real world is like. How many real AA meetings outside of a program have you been to? By opposing AA you only hurt the anti program cause because then parents dismiss the real abuse when you claim AA is somehow abusive as well.

[psy]

I wonder what it is that drives you to spend your time trolling online AA meetings.

Just testing a theory.

Do you think everybody is so stupid they will be tricked by the evil AA unless you enlighten them? How arrogant of you. Maybe you care to explain to everyone what it is that bothers you so much about a voluntary organization that helps people save thier lives.

Because statistically, that isnt' true.  In order for a program, any program, to be said to be helpful it has to be better than no treatment at all.  There has never been such a study with AA showing that to be true.  Quite the contrary, there is significant evidence showing that those who attend AA do worse than with no treatment at all (Brandsma, et al., among other studies).

What did AA do that harmed you so much that makes you so bitter against them? Just because a program says they are using AA in their program doesn't mean that's what AA in the real world is like.

I realize that.

How many real AA meetings outside of a program have you been to?

Admittedly, none.  However I don't have to attend their meetings to study their program and their beliefs.

By opposing AA you only hurt the anti program cause because then parents dismiss the real abuse when you claim AA is somehow abusive as well.

I never said AA was abusive.  Among other things, I just said it cannot be said objectively to "work".  There have been many debates on AA here and I have no desire to rehash yet another.  Use the search function.

[Anonymous]

How many real AA meetings outside of a program have you been to?

Admittedly, none.  However I don't have to attend their meetings to study their program and their beliefs.

I figured, with your level of bitterness you were court ordered to hundreds of meetings, at least. But you've never even been to one meeting? Where does all your hatred for AA come from if you don't even know what it's like? Instead of reading what other people have to say about it who have an agenda against AA, why don't you try going to sit in on an open meeting. Everyone is welcome, and you should share your concerns with them. They might smirk when you mention you think AA is a cult, but maybe putting some faces on this "theory" of yours will help you realize how off base you really are by criticizing them. By telling survivors who might be addicted to avoid AA because it's a cult and just like a program will cost lives. Can you really live with that on your conscience?