My son at Aspen Ranch

[Anonymous]

Ok, I'll bite.  Please provide the published, peer-reviewed study that establishes that kids are 'safer in programs than public schools.'

Can't wait to see the proof of that statement.

[Ursus]

Ok, I'll bite.  Please provide the published, peer-reviewed study that establishes that kids are 'safer in programs than public schools.'

Can't wait to see the proof of that statement.

He has yet to provide it. He has been making those claims on fornits for a longer period of time than I've been posting. I've yet to see that proof.

[Whooter]

Just not a big site for proof I guess.  Earlier on I asked for a peer reviewed study which showed that Aspen Ranch was ineffective and not one person was able to provide any evidence at all.  I thought at least one person would have had something.  I was looking for a hard backed copy.  Guess we can conclude that the Aspen Ranch is very effective.

[Ursus]

Just not a big site for proof I guess.  Earlier on I asked for a peer reviewed study which showed that Aspen Ranch was ineffective and not one person was able to provide any evidence at all.  I thought at least one person would have had something.  I was looking for a hard backed copy.  Guess we can conclude that the Aspen Ranch is very effective.

Bad bad logic, Whooter. Lack of "hard backed copy" showing Aspen Ranch to be "ineffective" does not enable one to conclude that "Aspen Ranch is very effective."

[Whooter]

Just not a big site for proof I guess.  Earlier on I asked for a peer reviewed study which showed that Aspen Ranch was ineffective and not one person was able to provide any evidence at all.  I thought at least one person would have had something.  I was looking for a hard backed copy.  Guess we can conclude that the Aspen Ranch is very effective.

Bad bad logic, Whooter. Lack of "hard backed copy" showing Aspen Ranch to be "ineffective" does not enable one to conclude that "Aspen Ranch is very effective."

That was my point.  Very few people come to fornits prepared with a peer reviewed study to back up their claims.  I was just making a point.  If you looked at the thousands of kids who take their lives each year compared to the one or so each year in programs you dont need a full scale study to figure which is safer.  4 or 5 kids take their lives every day and then you take this at risk group and place them in a program and you may lose one a year... not bad.
(Rough numbers)

[Ursus]

Just not a big site for proof I guess.  Earlier on I asked for a peer reviewed study which showed that Aspen Ranch was ineffective and not one person was able to provide any evidence at all.  I thought at least one person would have had something.  I was looking for a hard backed copy.  Guess we can conclude that the Aspen Ranch is very effective.

Bad bad logic, Whooter. Lack of "hard backed copy" showing Aspen Ranch to be "ineffective" does not enable one to conclude that "Aspen Ranch is very effective."

That was my point.  Very few people come to fornits prepared with a peer reviewed study to back up their claims.  I was just making a point.  If you looked at the thousands of kids who take their lives each year compared to the one or so each year in programs you dont need a full scale study to figure which is safer.  4 or 5 kids take their lives every day and then you take this at risk group and place them in a program and you may lose one a year... not bad.
(Rough numbers)

Lol. Just how "rough" are those numbers, Whooter?

Within the first four months of this year alone, two former students who had recently attended Hyde School committed suicide.

Or would you discount those two, since they weren't physically at the school when they offed themselves?

[Whooter]

Just not a big site for proof I guess.  Earlier on I asked for a peer reviewed study which showed that Aspen Ranch was ineffective and not one person was able to provide any evidence at all.  I thought at least one person would have had something.  I was looking for a hard backed copy.  Guess we can conclude that the Aspen Ranch is very effective.

Bad bad logic, Whooter. Lack of "hard backed copy" showing Aspen Ranch to be "ineffective" does not enable one to conclude that "Aspen Ranch is very effective."

That was my point.  Very few people come to fornits prepared with a peer reviewed study to back up their claims.  I was just making a point.  If you looked at the thousands of kids who take their lives each year compared to the one or so each year in programs you dont need a full scale study to figure which is safer.  4 or 5 kids take their lives every day and then you take this at risk group and place them in a program and you may lose one a year... not bad.
(Rough numbers)

Lol. Just how "rough" are those numbers, Whooter?

Within the first four months of this year alone, two former students who had recently attended Hyde School committed suicide.

Or would you discount those two, since they weren't physically at the school when they offed themselves?

Interesting question.  If they left the program and then committed suicide then they should not be counted as program deaths.  If a kid committed suicide while at the program would you attribute his/her death to the public school he attend just prior to going to the program ?  or would you attribute it as a program death?

If you think we should go back two years to establish "cause" then any death occuring in the first 2 years of the program should not be counted as a program death.
This is why I question Oscars rules.  They keep changing in favor of blaming the program each time.  There are no boundary conditions or rules which can be cited ot pointed to for consistency.

[Anonymous]

There’s no evidence that Aspen "helps" teens.

Therefore, by medical or scientific standards it is classified as not beneficial and not “therapeutic.”

There’s plethora of evidence that Aspen Ranch hurts and kills victims. Google the effects of kidnapping, long term imprisonment, imprisonment without due process, brainwashing. All of these oppressive and torturous violations, perpetrated by Aspen ranch, have been proved to cause serious personal harm. Duh, right?

John reuben, aka the who(?), destroyed his kid, Max Reuben by paying Academy at Swift river and SUWS Wilderness Programs to torture his son. No matter how often he attempt to absolve troubled teen programs (thought reform gulags) for the damage they do, he will never absolve himself for his son's death.He has no more kids. All he has is fornits.
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=27903&start=0

[Whooter]

There’s plethora of evidence that Aspen Ranch hurts and kills victims. Google the effects of kidnapping,

I did just that and didnt  find one reference to Aspen Education.  They have never even been charged let alone convicted of kidnapping.

long term imprisonment,

Same thing.  I tried “Aspen Imprisonment”, “ASG Imprisonment”, “Aspen Education Imprisonment” and nothing comes up.  There are no cases pending or closed out that I can find

imprisonment without due process,

Same thing.  I tried “Aspen Imprisonment without due process”, “ASG Imprisonment without due process”, “Aspen Education Imprisonment without due process” and nothing comes up.  There are no cases pending or closed out that I can find

brainwashing.

Same thing.  I tried “Aspen brainwashing”, “ASG brainwashing”, “Aspen Education brainwashing” and nothing comes up.  There are no cases pending or closed out that I can find

 

All of these oppressive and torturous violations, perpetrated by Aspen ranch, have been proved to cause serious personal harm. Duh, right?

Do you have any facts to back up what you say?

Are you related to Ajax? Ha,Ha,Ha

You say there’s plethora of evidence that Aspen Ranch hurts and kills victims, yet you post nothing.  You suggest the reader does Google searches and still nothing.  We all know Aspen helps kids but somehow you managed to screw it all up and want to blame your parents or the program for your screwed up and unmotivated life.  
Sorry I cant help you out.

[Anonymous]

There’s plethora of evidence that Aspen Ranch hurts and kills victims. Google the effects of kidnapping,

I did just that and didnt  find one reference to Aspen Education.  They have never even been charged let alone convicted of kidnapping.

long term imprisonment,

Same thing.  I tried “Aspen Imprisonment”, “ASG Imprisonment”, “Aspen Education Imprisonment” and nothing comes up.  There are no cases pending or closed out that I can find

imprisonment without due process,

Same thing.  I tried “Aspen Imprisonment without due process”, “ASG Imprisonment without due process”, “Aspen Education Imprisonment without due process” and nothing comes up.  There are no cases pending or closed out that I can find

brainwashing.

Same thing.  I tried “Aspen brainwashing”, “ASG brainwashing”, “Aspen Education brainwashing” and nothing comes up.  There are no cases pending or closed out that I can find

 

All of these oppressive and torturous violations, perpetrated by Aspen ranch, have been proved to cause serious personal harm. Duh, right?

Do you have any facts to back up what you say?

Are you related to Ajax? Ha,Ha,Ha

You say there’s plethora of evidence that Aspen Ranch hurts and kills victims, yet you post nothing.  You suggest the reader does Google searches and still nothing.  We all know Aspen helps kids but somehow you managed to screw it all up and want to blame your parents or the program for your screwed up and unmotivated life.  
Sorry I cant help you out.

Aspen does have cases pending against it for kidnap, imprisonment, torture, more or less.
http://www.websupp.org/data/EDTX/9:04-c ... 3-EDTX.pdf

"Plaintiff Mary Lytle, personally and as guardian for her daughter Sarah Nealon, sues
Defendants Aspen Education Group (“Aspen”) and Lone Star Expeditions, Inc. (“Lone Star”) for
negligence, gross negligence, malice, intentional infliction of emotional distress, and false
imprisonment."

You actually pull up a lot for "aspen education" and imprisonment, lawsuits too.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls= ... nt&spell=1

Sadly, the law's rarely enforced for teens (and adults!) kidnapped by gulags through criminal charges. Sociopaths like you exploit that for fun and profit.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_k ... _n6866576/

Brainwashing, imprisonment,torture at Aspen Ranch is described below(sworn testimony). The reality of the negative effects of these violations extend to all victims who've experienced them, not just the specific victims under study.

(Aspen victims experience *worse* abuse than most studied because their abuse originates in primary relationships, their youth, the involvement of their own govt through its non-action. Therefore they are likely to experience greater long term damage.) (this has been scientifically established too).

A peer reviewed survey of survivors of places like Aspen ranch:
http://www.cafety.org/research/121-rese ... -pinto-phd

More accounts of torturous gulags that get away with it:
http://cafety.youthrights.org/wiki/inde ... _Testimony

Ya cant defend the indefensible, whooter,John Reuben. And you and Academy at Swift River cant bring back the kid you killed, Michael Joshua Reuben.  Your son rots more each day. And you did that to him.

http://www.heal-online.org/aspenranch.htm



SURVIVOR REPORTS
 
SURVIVOR REPORT #1 BY ANONYMOUS
I wish I knew where to begin. I know that there are many more programs that are probably more abusive than what I
experienced here but that doesn't take away from the facts.  I will try to focus on the most disturbing experiences i can
remember but, like many other survivors of such programs i find myself having a hard time remembering everything that went
on.  For the first two weeks you arrive at Aspen Ranch you are placed on a level known as round-up.  During this period of
time you are either silent in a basement, or outside doing manual labor (changing watering pipes, building fences etc).  
You can not have any contact with your parents and get to talk to a therapist maybe once or twice.  One July morning when
I refused to go outside, the sheets were ripped out from under me and I was carried and thrown onto a staircase where two
men put my shoes on picked me up and dragged me to the field where I was to work.  Afraid of any other forms of punishment,
I did.  Being physically threatened is a major way they get you to follow the rules.  Every week you got to speak with your
parents,  on speakerphone, with your therapist present for 20 minutes.  If you ever tried to tell your parents about the
torture you were suffering through the conversation would be immediately terminated.  All letters were read before sent,
all incoming mail opened read and inspected before given to you.  The only contact allowed was to your parents and had to
be positive.  On top of whatever work project your team was assigned to each day you also had to participate in an hour
long physical, no matter how physically drained you were.  People would sometimes pass out or break down begging to stop
but, for the most part the physical went on for as long as the supervisor saw fit.  The psychological abuse was never
ending, if you were suspected of doing something wrong you would be forced to go into the basement and sit at a desk until
you admitted what you were accused of.  We were often threatened to be sent to an out of country program where we were told
there was no child labor laws, I still don't know if this program exists but, the mere threat was enough to keep most of us
"in line".  I could go on forever with stories of this sort.  My main point though, please do not put your child through
this, two years later I am still suffering from the lies I was fed.
 
Please protect my identity.  I know this is not a complete story but I think it gets the point across.  If you need my full
name and dates I attended the program for your own records I can let you know, thanks so much for raising awareness about
such horrible programs.
 
SURVIVOR REPORT #2 BY ANON
These are all factual events that take place at aspen ranch everyday, these are events that have taken place and will
continue to unless someone takes action soon. Everything in my statement is true and I give HEAL permission to use my
statement.  I am a survivor of the aspen ranch school, located in Loa, UT.  A Theraputic Boarding school/ rehabilitation
center.....my ass.  Aspen Ranch uses a physical restraint system called PCS (positive control system) which is actually
FAR from positive. PCS includes a barrage or various pressure points and bent wrists, locked joints, and strained tendons.
Once put into PCS submission you are held here by a minimum of 3 staff, you're pulse regularly checked to indicate your
level of anger.  You are normally on the ground (also known as "Carpet Time" for a norm of 45 minutes to an hour)  They use
any method of getting you down, whether it be calmly asking you to cooperate with them or tackling you through a crowd of
people onto concrete (which seems to be a staff favorite). I have seen many of my friends at Aspen Ranch end up with broken
wrists from PCS. I have myself lost the feeling in the tips of my fingers for days  as a result of being held in PCS
submission for over 3 hours. Once you are PCSed (on top of everything) you have to go to R&R (redirection and recovery)

[Whooter]

Nice try......Where is the kidnapping and Brainwashing law suits?
Are you related to Ajax? Ha,Ha,Ha

Try your google search again and get back to us.  Try to respond with facts this time... hold the personal attacks until after you realize I have proved you wrong again..

[Anonymous]

Nice try......Where is the kidnapping and Brainwashing law suits?
Are you related to Ajax? Ha,Ha,Ha

Try your google search again and get back to us.  Try to respond with facts this time... hold the personal attacks until after you realize I have proved you wrong again..

 


Why try to reason with this numnuts.  You could prove a thousand kids die each year and he would find a way to rationalize, justify and dismiss it...so "only" 4, 5 kids die a year and this is "not bad"  Try telling that to the families of those 4 or 5 kids.  There is not really much you say to an idiot who is still shilling for the program that killed his son?

[Anonymous]

long term imprisonment,

I tried “Aspen Imprisonment”, “ASG Imprisonment”, “Aspen Education Imprisonment” and nothing comes up.  There are no cases pending or closed out that I can find

imprisonment without due process,

Same thing.  I tried “Aspen Imprisonment without due process”, “ASG Imprisonment without due process”, “Aspen Education Imprisonment without due process” and nothing comes up.  There are no cases pending or closed out that I can find

brainwashing.

Same thing.  I tried “Aspen brainwashing”, “ASG brainwashing”, “Aspen Education brainwashing” and nothing comes up.  There are no cases pending or closed out that I can find
.

A lot "comes up" for “aspen education” and "imprisonment;"
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls= ... nt&spell=1

and "torture;"
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22aspen ... 1I7GGLL_en

and "brainwashing:"
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls= ... f&oq=&aqi=

and "thought reform:"
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls= ... f&oq=&aqi=

A lot of lawsuits, as well, if you look long enough. Lawsuits over deaths of detainees, also(murders). I wonder how the lawsuit over the death of brendan blum is going?
http://brendanblum.blogspot.com/


Friday, October 12, 2007
Charges Filed in Death of Brendan Blum
 
2 youth counselors charged in California boy's death
14-year-old was staying at treatment center in Draper

By Pat Reavy and Rebecca Palmer
Deseret Morning News
Published: October 12, 2007

Two counselors at a residential youth treatment center in Draper where a 14-year-old boy died in June were charged Thursday in connection with the boy's death.

Deborah Cole and Jorge Ramirez, from Youth Care Inc., 12600 Minuteman Drive, each face one count of abuse or neglect of a child, a third-degree felony.

On June 27, Brendan Blum of California was suffering bowel and stomach problems. He had been vomiting and suffering from diarrhea all night, said Draper Police Sgt. Gerry Allred. Rather than contacting the on-call nurse as the facility's policy dictates, the boy was simply given some medicine and put in a separate room away from the rest of the boys, he said. The next morning, the boy, who was listed as a disabled child because he had Asperger's syndrome, was found dead on his mattress.

"There was no really good reason why they didn't take him ... no explanation except they just thought it was an upset stomach," Allred said.

An autopsy determined the boy had an obstructed bowel that deteriorated as the night went on, Allred said. The on-call nurse, who was later interviewed by police, said if she had been called to look at the boy she would have advised he immediately go to the hospital, he said.
The Utah State Medical Examiner concurred, "if medical intervention had been obtained, (the boy's) death would have been preventable," according to court documents.

The boy's mother, Dana Blum, said she is appalled that workers at the facility didn't take him to an emergency room. Any time a child dies while in the care of a licensed facility, the facility should be shut down immediately, she said.

Blum has filed a complaint with the Utah licensing board and is waiting for the investigation to be completed.

She hopes the individuals who operated the facility will be held accountable along with the workers.

"I don't wish them any ill, I would just like to see justice done for my son," she said.

The facility issued a statement shortly after the boy's death saying it was the result of a "medical condition." The group home is operated by Aspen Education Group, based in Cerritos, Calif. It is a division of the CRC Health Group, which runs boarding schools, outdoor education programs and weight-loss camps.

Ironically, the charges came one day after the Government Accountability Office in Washington, D.C., found thousands of abuse allegations at camps and other private treatment facilities around the country.

Blum hopes the national attention will result in stricter standards and more accountability across the board.

Brendan was placed in the facility following treatment at a California hospital. Blum said she researched Youth Care Inc. extensively before sending her son there.

"This is double-edged sword for me," she said. "I am not a deadbeat mom."

[Anonymous]

http://www.momlogic.com/2009/06/can_wil ... l_your.php

Then they dumped water on him after he vomited and collapsed on the ground. Matthew Meyer died an hour later at the hospital. He was 14 years old.

Camp administrators refused to tell Crystal what happened to her son. It took three and a half years of investigation and litigation to reveal the truth. Aspen Education Group, the owners of Lone Star Expeditions, settled the case out of court.

Aspen Education Group murders kids

http://www.aspeneducation.com/

[Oscar]

AEG have lost one child in the wilderness program they run in this area. He was able to hang himselves back in 2007. He was also depressed because he had lost a brother.

Oscar, How is this statement even relevant?  Lots of kids kill themselves, 1,000’s every year.  We cant just avoid every place where this occurs.  Kids die at home mostly, so what should we do not allow kids to stay at home so they will be safer?  Kick them all out?
Not sure what the point is.  Statistics show that kids are much more safe in programs than they are at home or in public schools.

It is the same with traffic. Billions of miles are driven every day by our citizens without accidents. If you count the number of people on the roads everyday those who are injured or killed represent a small percentage.

But regardless of that the number of killed or injured are few, every single year we see more regulations and tougher laws.

So if we makes laws to protect people in traffic, then HR. 911 is only a small effort. Laws are made to protect kids in their home home too. In a lot of countries you can no longer allow them to work in the home, work with certain tools or leave them alone for longer time if they are under a certain age.

The point is that we can always do better. When it is a fact that people with depression can kill themselves and they have done so in programs where they are not under supervision 24/7 as they are in a inpatient hospital unit, why risk repeat the fatal error?