Author Topic: LGATs in the work place  (Read 3182 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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LGATs in the work place
« on: August 08, 2009, 01:23:36 AM »
My husband came home and said, "What do you know about ~creativelyinsertLandmarkhere~? A few people from work (one of the owners of his company and some others) have gone and want me to attend their graduation and want me to think about signing up for a seminar, the company will pay for it."

Ok, my husband knows all about my resort vacation at straight, inc. and so he responded to the guys at work.. "No thanks, that sounds like coercive thought reform. Those can be very dangerous." First of all, the guys were astounded and offended at the terms coercive thought reform (I am willing to bet they have never heard those words). They went on and on about how wonderful and life-changing it was and everyone needs it....it could lead to world peace...... the guys went on and on trying to ~sell it to him, he finally said.. let me talk to my wife about it, I think she knows a little about this group.

I said.., "I think you should find a new job"... And then I went searching for the info (knowing I knew the name from here and other watchdog type resources)

Some things really surprised me when I started reading, Wow... it is scary how many and which companies encourage their employees attend these "seminars".

** Can employers require their employees to join these things?
** And what do we do if they start treating him differently because he refuses to participate? I have read a lot of stories and am pretty worried about this part.
** How can he politely state that he does not wish to even be spoken to about this program, nor does he wish to be encouraged to converse using the LGAT Lingo...And that he finds it inappropriate for the work environment...

He has been with this company for around 10 years or more. sigh. This is spontaneously new.

So, although this may not be directly Straight related... I somehow rely on and trust your inputs and knowledge of this subject. Part of the "after wash", I suppose.
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Offline Froderik

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Re: LGATs in the work place
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2009, 09:53:07 AM »
Quote
** Can employers require their employees to join these things?
** And what do we do if they start treating him differently because he refuses to participate? I have read a lot of stories and am pretty worried about this part.
** How can he politely state that he does not wish to even be spoken to about this program, nor does he wish to be encouraged to converse using the LGAT Lingo...And that he finds it inappropriate for the work environment...

He has been with this company for around 10 years or more. sigh. This is spontaneously new.

So, although this may not be directly Straight related... I somehow rely on and trust your inputs and knowledge of this subject. Part of the "after wash", I suppose.
I'm very curious what company it is that he works for. Is there any harm in saying here?

Anyway, to get to some of your questions... who knows what rights we will lose in the years to come (the current administration wants to require every kid to go to some weird youth camp; I don't know, but that sounds kinda shady to me)? So, I don't know if he will be shunned at work or not, but it is not inconceivable that someday he might be not only shunned, but required to attend!! Big government and all of that...

Politely? Like Nancy said, "Just say no." :D

Ok, "No, thanks" might work a little better...
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Offline Antigen

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Re: LGATs in the work place
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2009, 10:33:36 AM »
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: LGATs in the work place
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2009, 10:38:52 AM »
I am afraid you may be right, Frod. It just amazes me that any "normal" adult would praise having paid to be emotionally broken down in a group of 200 strangers. It doesn't even clue them in when they are required to sign a non-disclosure contract at the beginning and also ~encouraged to invite 10 of their friends to attend and sign up too. It amazes me that they don't even realize that their are people planted in the group who "have intense breakthroughs", systematically timed to make the real attendee feel that they must also "have intense breakthroughs"  publicly. It amazes me that people just willingly sign up without doing any independent research... geesh, just google the name and you get a whole mess of .....well... mess. It just amazes me!

The work environment has already shifted to using LGAT lingo and trigger words... and there is hugging and a profound lack of responsibility for the impact people have on each other. How can the LGAT teach people they are Godlike and control all their situations.. and then turn around and tell them to give up being right......

It is almost like... if you are not ~one of the enlightened~ then you are an outsider who just needs to be washed in the water of the LGAT.

How can companies think it's ok - to fund for all their employees experience an emotional - identity breakdown. Obviously, it is a control mechanic. Robots and they don't even realize it.

Do these new inductees realize that this LGAT organization makes millions of dollars every year and yet the large, large majority of the staff are volunteers - and they will also be required to volunteer in order to remain accepted within the group? Do they realize that people's businesses and families have been tormented and destroyed by this LGAT? Why not even ask.. Where does all the money actually go? And why not ask what the history of the LGAT is...There are a ton of lawsuits and accusations on the internet alone.

Group Think is not ok, and to force it on your employees creates a very limited pool of creativity and growth within any company or family.

Frod, I am worried... I am really encouraging him to look for new employment.
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Offline Ursus

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Re: LGATs in the work place
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2009, 10:45:29 AM »
I'm pretty positive that there have been lawsuits filed in the past against companies which required their employees to attend Landmark Forum seminars (or whatever name they go by these days) ...but I'm not 100% sure about that. I might be confusing this memory with another one of Lifespring. It's worth taking a look, though...

Was it Landmark? Some of these LGATs infiltrate business schools in an attempt to gain credibility and a guaranteed pool of future clients. The whole mindset is awfully similar to what might be your worst nightmare of a corporate workplace environment. In fact, some corporate admins think it increases productivity and workplace cohesion, which is why LGATs are so popular with the business school crowd. Personally, at this point in history, I consider the line differentiating between business gurus and LGAT gurus to be awfully thin. Even nonexistent, in some cases.

Another one to be on the lookout for is the Hoffman Quadrinity Process. They've managed to set up shop at Harvard Business School. Back in the late 60s and early 70s they used to be called the Fischer-Hoffman Psychic Therapy, but that was before Fischer's widow sued Bob Hoffman for taking her husbands name in vain.   :D
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Offline Ursus

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Re: LGATs in the work place
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2009, 11:08:10 AM »
Quote from: "OhNo"
How can companies think it's ok - to fund for all their employees experience an emotional - identity breakdown. Obviously, it is a control mechanic. Robots and they don't even realize it.

...Because there are those in government who think that it's okay? Google National Training Labs (Bethel, Maine and Washington DC, last I checked), amongst other such think tanks. There's a similar one at the University of Michigan. Both outgrowths of Kurt Lewin's work in the mid 1940s at MIT or B.U., can't remember which, maybe even both...

Sometimes it feels as though there is a growing swell in this country towards a therapeutic community modality infesting pretty much every gathering containing more than 10 people. Obviously, that last is a bit of a hyperbolic statement on my part, but things are headed in that direction.

Comes from there being so many people in the world, and some wishing to control and manage that growing population ... "for their own good," and also, perhaps, for the profit benefiting a few...
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Offline Ursus

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Re: LGATs in the work place
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2009, 11:13:46 AM »
Quote from: "OhNo"
It doesn't even clue them in when they are required to sign a non-disclosure contract at the beginning and also ~encouraged to invite 10 of their friends to attend and sign up too.

How much teeth does that contract have? Maybe your husband would be interested in going undercover, and in reporting some pertinent details of that horror show...
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Offline Froderik

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Re: LGATs in the work place
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2009, 11:17:12 AM »
Quote
Personally, at this point in history, I consider the line differentiating between business gurus and LGAT gurus to be awfully thin. Even nonexistent, in some cases.
Chilling, yet interesting point; it should be elaborated upon a bit.

I often wonder to what extent Sembler's cronies (not to mention other high-level program creeps) are watching and pulling strings out there...the fuckers!!! Sometimes I wonder if I should stay away from these sites while I am at work for that very reason! Worse than visiting a porn site, a site that trashes beloved PROGRAMS...or, maybe I am just paranoid. I can accept that. :ftard:

Yes, and a little more specific info, if you please...
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: LGATs in the work place
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2009, 11:43:37 AM »
Can't do it Frod! If he goes to work and says... go look for yourselves... I do not want them to find their company's name... I think that is fair.

And like you said, you never know who is pulling the strings out there. It is local for us, Frod. I will say that.

I hope you understand. But I am interested in everyone's opinion because it helps to validate my apprehension and generates healthy discussion about the long term effects,  of LGATS and TCs in general, on the world around us.
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Offline wdtony

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Re: LGATs in the work place
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2009, 03:21:30 AM »
Margaret Singer writes a lot about LGATS in her book, "Cults In Our Midst". If memory serves, she writes about court cases where people have fought against employers forcing LGAT's and won. This might be a good resource in your case. I think she calls them "large group awareness seminars". She also goes into detail about what exactly is bad about them and some things that can happen to certain populations of people causing irreparable psychological damage. I believe there is an entire chapter on LGATS in her book.

My friend's experience with an LGAT:

My friend who once managed an oil change business went to one of these seminars (LifeSpring) on his employers dime and told me all about his experience. The secrets (not allowed to talk about the seminar to anyone, especially other who attended the same seminar and was required to go directly back to the hotel room and quietly reflect on the long day they had endured), the outpouring of emotion (people crying profusely and being made to hug and play trust games), the "what works and what doesn't work" vs. "what's right and what's wrong", intimidation from the facilitators and so on. He mentioned the extremely vulnerable state the women at the seminar were in emotionally by the 2nd or 3rd day suggesting that he realized these women's defenses were down and men could easily take advantage if they so desired. I assume the men were in an equally vulnerable state.

 At the end he was pressured to buy more seminars (many of the people were signing up for more seminars while in a state of sideblinded euphoria) and when he declined, the group leader asked him if he would consider giving 10% of his earnings to him instead of tithing at church. My friend is a very religious man and thought the request was utterly ridiculous. But, he told me that by the way many of the people had reacted to the seminar that he wouldn't be surprised if they actually did give their church offering money to the people running the seminar. He mentioned that the group leader explained this as being "a way to connect spiritually through him (The seminar group leader) without relying on his church for guidance". The group leader didn't even show emotion when he asked for the money, but instead asked in a way that seemed very distant and not worried about any negative response. My friend said that it seemed as if he had done this many times before and was very used to it.

He did not buy into the scam and decided to never return to any of these seminars again.
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Offline wdtony

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Re: LGATs in the work place
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2009, 03:53:02 AM »
Some things your husband should say (to his manager personally) at work if they don't let up:



These requests are making me uncomfortable in the workplace.

This is not work related and therefore cannot be mandatory or mandated.

This is considered harassment in the workplace.

If they continue to bother him about this, he needs to convey that this is making him uncomfortable in the workplace and if they don't stop bothering/pressuring him that he will take legal action against them.

Make sure he documents everything they say, when they said it and keep a written timeline of all activities for evidence just in case he does lose his job over this. If he has any e-mails about this at all he should save them. Any recordings between employee/employer about this issue can be used as evidence in court. Any letters or written requests/undue influence/expectations concerning this issue can be used as evidence. Any literature about the seminars given out at work should be saved. Pictures of posters advertising these seminars at work might be useful as evidence. I would suggest, as a preparative measure, that he start collecting any evidence concerning this issue as if he will need it.
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Offline TheWho

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Re: LGATs in the work place
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2009, 12:21:08 PM »
All depends on what he wants to do with his career.  Most compnies from manager/ Director on up you are either part of the team and play ball together or you find another job.  If he is happy with the level he is presently at then he can comfortably decline and they cannot fire him for it.  But if he wants to move up within the company he needs to partake in company activities or find another company.  These seminars are really benign and have no long term effect on people.  Unless it is the principle of the thing maybe he could just go and try to get thru it and bond with some of his coworkers, see the world from another perspective.  He doesnt have to drink the koolaid.
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Offline Inculcated

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Re: LGATs in the work place
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2009, 02:11:33 AM »
Human Potential: The Revolution in Feeling
Time article Monday, Nov. 09, 1970
IN an Evanston, Ill., high school, students of English Teacher Thomas Klein shrouded themselves in bed sheets and crawled blindly around the floor. At a body-movement session in Beverly Hills, Calif., participants took turns pummeling a sofa pillow with feral ferocity. From a four-story midtown Manhattan brownstone, the sound of screaming can be heard all day long. It comes from patients of Psychiatrist Daniel Casriel, who believes that such release is therapeutic. In Escondido, Calif., a group of naked men and women, utter strangers, step into what their leader, Beverly Hills Psychologist Paul Bindrim, calls a "womb pool"—a warm Jacuzzi bath. They are permitted to hug and kiss each other, but intercourse is out.
To many Americans, these activities typify a leaderless, formless and wildly eclectic movement that is variously called sensitivity training, encounter, "therapy for normals," the bod biz, or the acidless trip. Such terms merely describe the more sensational parts of a whole that is coming to be known as the human potentials movement —a quest conducted in hundreds of ways and places, to redefine and enrich the spirit of social man.
To reach man's unawakened resources, the movement focuses on the actions and interactions of individuals in a group. In this, it has borrowed freely from psychology's past, from such extenders of Freudian theory as Karen Horney and Harry Stack Sullivan, who realized that no individual can be defined, and no emotional disorder healed, without an examination of the interchange between one man and all the others in his life. Society itself is defined by the group. The movement's exponents argue that by expanding the individual's self-awareness and sense of well-being within the group, a new feeling of community develops that strengthens both the individual and the group.
Weekend Marathon. The human potentials movement has already touched the major social institutions: church, factory, school and state. In a study for the Carnegie Corporation, Donald H. Clark, associate professor of education at New York's City University, reports that the movement has permeated every level of education, from kindergarten to graduate school and beyond. Encounter sessions or T (for training) groups have been held, sometimes as parts of the curriculum, in dozens of colleges and universities, among them Harvard, Columbia, Boston University and the New School for Social Research. Big business has enlisted its employees in human potentials centers in ever increasing numbers, and many companies now operate programs of their own. In some, white employees don blackface, black employees whiteface, presumably to encourage the feeling that the difference in the races is, after all, only skin-deep.
Aided by widespread publicity, including the movie Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice and Jane Howard's bestseller, Please Touch, the movement is spreading explosively. Two years ago, when California's Esalen Institute first sought to export its own brand of the new gospel east, 90 curious New Yorkers showed up for a five-day encounter group in Manhattan. A similar event last year drew 850; last April, 6,000. Since January 1969, when Donald Clark counted 37 "growth centers"—established sites for the development of human or group potentials—the census has risen past 100. ….
At its Maine retreat, opened in 1947, the N.T.L. began applying the feedback process to what has become an entirely new educational approach: the T group. Uninstructed and agendaless, the group begins to coalesce in a highly charged emotional atmosphere. At first, group members are reserved, but eventually they remove their social masks. Says Bradford: "People come as lonely people —we're all lonely people—and find they can finally share with somebody. One statement I've heard 300 or 400 times from T-group members is, 'You know, I know you people better than people I've worked with for 30 years.' "
Intense Encounter. T groups are now conducted internationally by 600 N.T.L.-trained leaders and are designed to improve corporations, government agencies, churches and other institutions. They differ from encounter groups in that they tend to be less emotional, place more reliance on verbal than on nonverbal communication, and are less concerned with the individuals' growth per se than with his development within his group. T groups improve relationships within organizations by trading what the late Douglas McGregor of M.I.T. called management's "X" approach (do as I say) for the "Y" approach (join with me so that we can work things out together). Obviously, that does not and cannot make equals of the boss and the factory hand; if that is the unrealistic goal, the "Y" approach will fail. But by making the president and the factory hand more aware of each other it can vastly improve the employee's sense of his own value and place.
The pervasiveness of the human potentials movement is demonstrated by the inroads it has made even in relatively conservative cities like Cincinnati, where T groups and encounter groups have become an integral part of business and civic activities. Procter & Gamble and Federated Stores, for example, both use human potentials groups to increase the effectiveness and morale of their staffs. After hours, some of the employees, inspired by their office training, conduct private encounter groups of their own. Methodist and. Episcopal church leaders regularly schedule group training sessions for their laity, and the University of Cincinnati sponsors sensitivity groups both to improve the workings of its own departments and to aid the community at large. Even the police department is involved. Next month new recruits will be given 40 hours of group sensitivity training to give them a better understanding of the problems and ways of the city's minorities. N.T.L.'s approach represents what might be called the conservative end of the human potentials movement. At the other, or liberal end are Esalen and all its imitators and derivatives. Somewhere in between lies the Center for Studies of the Person in La Jolla, Calif., a loose confederation of 53 psychologists, sociologists, anthropologists, philosophers, educators, clergymen and journalists.

For all 8 pgs. Follow the link

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... -1,00.html
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Offline psy

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Re: LGATs in the work place
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2009, 09:17:39 AM »
Quote from: "wdtony"
Margaret Singer writes a lot about LGATS in her book, "Cults In Our Midst".
And the chapter pertaining to LGATs in the workplace is available online.  To the OP: I recommend your husband read this:
http://www.caic.org.au/psyther/lgat/singer.htm

It also lists a bunch of lawsuits, of which i'm sure there are more of now.  If it comes to it and if your husband gets fired for not taking the course, there is legal recourse.  If somebody asks him a detailed reason why he won't take that course, maybe he could print out that chapter.  I don't know.  Use it at your best discretion.
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Offline Anonymous

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we want to own your life
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2009, 10:16:11 AM »
Quote from: "Guest"
All depends on what he wants to do with his career.  Most compnies from manager/ Director on up you are either part of the team and play ball together or you find another job.  If he is happy with the level he is presently at then he can comfortably decline and they cannot fire him for it.  But if he wants to move up within the company he needs to partake in company activities or find another company.  These seminars are really benign and have no long term effect on people.  Unless it is the principle of the thing maybe he could just go and try to get thru it and bond with some of his coworkers, see the world from another perspective.  He doesnt have to drink the koolaid.
It’s the 'primary America' we’re in. It hit us sometime a long, long time ago and it’s been with us ever since. There’s this primary America of freeways and jet flights and TV and movie spectaculars. And people caught up in this primary America seem to go through huge portions of their lives without much consciousness of what’s immediately around them. The media have convinced them that what’s right around them is unimportant. And that’s why they’re lonely. You see it in their faces. First the little flicker of searching, and then when they look at you, you’re just a kind of an object. You don’t count. You’re not what they’re looking for. You’re not on TV. And what does TV usually tell you about programs?
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