Current HLA Staff

[TheWho]

So you supervised people, that you never saw or spoke with, and never saw a single status update or report from? Did you have any actual authority over these people?

Correct.  They had a dotted line to someone local, but, in one of my cases, I provided oversight until something more permanent could be arranged.  I think this is getting off topic.  I dont think my practices would hold up in a court of law or help define something we are not familiar with.

[RobertBruce]

I'm just trying to understand your mindset as to how you can look at a situation where a non medically trained staff member is not just dispensing meds, but running the infirmary, without any supervision or oversight whatsoever, and as a parent who enrolled his child at HLA, be okay with it. All because a magnet has a local pharmacists number on it which you believe may constitute supervision.

[TheWho]

I'm just trying to understand your mindset as to how you can look at a situation where a non medically trained staff member is not just dispensing meds, but running the infirmary, without any supervision or oversight whatsoever, and as a parent who enrolled his child at HLA, be okay with it. All because a magnet has a local pharmacists number on it which you believe may constitute supervision.

First, I never had a child attend HLA and I never said I was okay with HLA's procedure or mentioned magnets of any kind.  I dont endorse their procedures because neither one of us knows what they are.  This is the open issue.  We need to define what the law states and how HLA conforms or doesnt conform to it.  This is where I am at right now.

[RobertBruce]

I dont endorse their procedures because neither one of us knows what they are. This is the open issue. We need to define what the law states and how HLA conforms or doesnt conform to it. This is where I am at right now

There's where you're wrong. Some of us do know what the procedures are because some of us, in this instance me, experienced this first hand. In my time there was no nurse, there was no on call nurse or visiting nurse, or anything that might constitute oversight by someone with a  medical license. What there was, was a rotating string of baby sitters who sat in the infirmary for kids who were injured and/or sick. Depending on how visibly sick or injured the kid was, was the determining factor in whether or not the kid could recieve treatment, or if it was deemed the kid was just manipulating and punished. One girl when I was there went in repeatedly complaining of feeling feverish, nasuea, stomach pains, and a headache. As it was during the summer and hot outside the non medically trained or supervised person reported to her counselor the girl was just trying to get away with something and she was sent to work assignments. She later ran away in an effort according to her to "walk to to the fucking hospital". She didn't get very far though, as she collapsed on the side of Wahsega road. It turned out she had mono, and was finally after three days taken to the hospital. I personally suffered an injury while incarcerated, after two hours was taken to the ER. When the attending physican examined me his question to the AC who brought me to the hosptial was "Why did you wait so long to bring him? Don't you people know how serious this is?"

Untrained staff dispensing meds, students dispensing meds, all without the slightest degree of supervision, which again according to your own link is illegal. So how is this situation safe or okay?

[TheWho]

There's where you're wrong. Some of us do know what the procedures are because some of us, in this instance me, experienced this first hand. In my time there was no nurse, there was no on call nurse or visiting nurse, or anything that might constitute oversight by someone with a medical license. What there was, was a rotating string of baby sitters who sat in the infirmary for kids who were injured and/or sick. Depending on how visibly sick or injured the kid was, was the determining factor in whether or not the kid could recieve treatment, or if it was deemed the kid was just manipulating and punished. One girl when I was there went in repeatedly complaining of feeling feverish, nasuea, stomach pains, and a headache. As it was during the summer and hot outside the non medically trained or supervised person reported to her counselor the girl was just trying to get away with something and she was sent to work assignments. She later ran away in an effort according to her to "walk to to the fucking hospital". She didn't get very far though, as she collapsed on the side of Wahsega road. It turned out she had mono, and was finally after three days taken to the hospital. I personally suffered an injury while incarcerated, after two hours was taken to the ER. When the attending physican examined me his question to the AC who brought me to the hosptial was "Why did you wait so long to bring him? Don't you people know how serious this is?"

I hear ya there.  From a parents perspective I would want a nurse on duty if my kid was there.  When I was in grade school I asked to call home or go home because I was really sick and they told me no.  IT turned out I had Scarlett fever and I ended up in the hospital overnight, wasn’t a good thing.

Untrained staff dispensing meds, students dispensing meds, all without the slightest degree of supervision, which again according to your own link is illegal. So how is this situation safe or okay?

I haven’t seen the procedure for this or how the meds were transported and who oversaw the movement of the meds.  The legality of this has not been established.  Personally I would like to see a nurse oversee the meds, but I don’t make the laws.

[RobertBruce]

According to your own link such a complete lack of supervision is illegal correct?

[TheWho]

According to your own link such a complete lack of supervision is illegal correct?

Lots of things are illegal.  The person dispening meds does not need formal training and can do their work with oversight from someone who is licensed.  If we can establish that a procedure exists supporting that HLA provided meds utilizing people who had no oversight then that would be illegal according to the link I provided.
I think that would be the smoking gun.  Casual observation of the going ons inside the med office would not be good enough to support lack of oversight.  There may be someone who is speaking to a doctor or pharmacist or licensed nurse that no one else is aware of.

[RobertBruce]

So you're saying here that if it were proven that HLA was dispensing meds, and operating an infirmary without any form of licensed medical supervision or oversight, you believe they would be operating illegally?

[TheWho]

So you're saying here that if it were proven that HLA was dispensing meds, and operating an infirmary without any form of licensed medical supervision or oversight, you believe they would be operating illegally?

Well the infirmary I havent looked at the laws.  But according to the link I provided there needs to be a string back to a licensed person for the dispensing of meds.

[RobertBruce]

So again, you're saying it would be illegal.

[TheWho]

So again, you're saying it would be illegal.

Look at the link, see what you think.  The way I read it is the meds would have to have a clear link back to a licensed person.  If I worked at a nursing home and only had my GED and they sent me to the pharmacy to get the days meds (because they didnt have a nurse) and asked me to hand them out.  Then I would have to get oversight from a licesned person either verbally or in writing.  If the labels were clearly spelled out with a procedure on how to dispense them and that label was written by a licensed person then I could legally do the job because the label is a written procedure.

There needs to be some type of communication from a licensed person (either verbal or written) to be seen as oversight.  As a minimum this is what I would like to see in order to be comfortable the job was being done correctly.

[Anonymous]

According to agent Adrienne Baker who investigated for the ORS, HLA ,in order to have prescription meds on the property such Ritalin in the quantities  that they were distributing, HLA should have had a DEA number.  Now that was in 2006.  Since HLA was forced into a CCI license there are clear regulatory laws regarding dispensing meds at a CCI. *See ORS/ DHR web-site.. Priot to licensing in DEC. OF 2006,  whomever was available dispensed medication, which even without licensing was criminal.  There were many errors and the children are who suffered.

[TheWho]

According to agent Adrienne Baker who investigated for the ORS, HLA ,in order to have prescription meds on the property such Ritalin in the quantities  that they were distributing, HLA should have had a DEA number.  Now that was in 2006.  Since HLA was forced into a CCI license there are clear regulatory laws regarding dispensing meds at a CCI. *See ORS/ DHR web-site.. Priot to licensing in DEC. OF 2006,  whomever was available dispensed medication, which even without licensing was criminal.  There were many errors and the children are who suffered.

So if HLA was in non compliance the audits would have picked this up during the licensing phase and during the follow-up audits.  I didnt see the original findings but the last 2 years they seem to be okay in this area.

I would like to get more detail about pre 2007 to see how they were operating during the times the nurse was there and after whe was let go.  I am sure if it was a bitter split and HLA was in non-compliance then she would have blown the whistle on them.  I'll check out the ORS/DHR site as you suggested...
Thanks Jill

[RobertBruce]

I can tell during my time there, there was no nurse. As to when she was let go I couldnt tell you. I know they hired someone back later on, but apparently that was the one they fired over email. So again by the standards you are citing HLA was and may currently be in violation.

[TheWho]

I can tell during my time there, there was no nurse. As to when she was let go I couldnt tell you. I know they hired someone back later on, but apparently that was the one they fired over email. So again by the standards you are citing HLA was and may currently be in violation.

so it seems we need some more detail to understand what they were doing pre 2007.  We havent been able to get a handle on their procedures during this time or the chain of command of how the meds were handled.

Since 2007, If I am not mistake, HLA has been under the oversight of the ORS and had since been licensed.