Author Topic: Current HLA Staff (Read 36015 times)

RobertBruce · « **Reply #180 on:** August 22, 2009, 09:09:57 PM »

Quote

If HLA is allowing someone to dispense meds without the oversight of a licensed professional then they are operating outside the law.

Then we agree that HLA has been operating outside of the law. Fantastic, I knew you'd figure it out eventually.

So my other question remains for anyone who actually experienced it. What is the educational program like at RC?

TheWho · « **Reply #181 on:** August 22, 2009, 09:15:16 PM »

I did not see where it was established that there was no oversight.

Do you have a link or some procedure we can look at?

Troll Control · « **Reply #182 on:** August 23, 2009, 09:39:28 AM »

No nurse at HLA since 2006.

http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=13982&p=192891&hilit=hla+nurse#p192891

Funny how TheWho 'forgets' this when he was making the same argument three years ago.

Also funny how he keeps demanding 'links' but when you ask him for one 'the website is difficult and time consuming to update.' Asshole.

TheWho · « **Reply #183 on:** August 23, 2009, 09:59:34 AM »

Quote from: "Guest"

No nurse at HLA since 2006.

http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=13982&p=192891&hilit=hla+nurse#p192891

Funny how TheWho 'forgets' this when he was making the same argument three years ago.

Also funny how he keeps demanding 'links' but when you ask him for one 'the website is difficult and time consuming to update.' Asshole.

We have established that the nurse was let go, but the governement procedures doesnt require a nurse to dispense the meds. A person with a GED could dispense them with little oversight from a licensed person.. ie pharmacist.

RobertBruce · « **Reply #184 on:** August 23, 2009, 10:30:36 AM »

John walk with me step by step through this. I'm determined that you understand this single point if nothing else.

Step 1. Your own link establishes, and you acknowledged, that while an unlicensed non medical staff member may dispense meds, supervision by a person who is licensed and certified in the field of medicine is required.

Step 2. HLA had no such staff member, either on the premises, or contracted through another organization to make routine visits as part of monitoring the situation.

Step 3. Having the phone number of a local pharmacist on hand to ask questions of is hardly the same thing as being supervised. The pharmacist is not going to come to HLA to ensure the receptionist, Assistiant Counselor, or student handing out meds is doing their job correctly. They aren't going to come by once a week and look over any reports taken, pointing out discrepancies, asking questions over why something was done a certain way, or certifing that things are being done properly.

Therefore, we can establish that since we know step one is true, and we know step two is true, it would then stand to reason that HLA was in violation of the law. Do you agree?

TheWho · « **Reply #185 on:** August 23, 2009, 10:45:27 AM »

Quote from: "RobertBruce"

John walk with me step by step through this. I'm determined that you understand this single point if nothing else.

Step 1. Your own link establishes, and you acknowledged, that while an unlicensed non medical staff member may dispense meds, supervision by a person who is licensed and certified in the field of medicine is required.

Step 2. HLA had no such staff member, either on the premises, or contracted through another organization to make routine visits as part of monitoring the situation.

Step 3. Having the phone number of a local pharmacist on hand to ask questions of is hardly the same thing as being supervised. The pharmacist is not going to come to HLA to ensure the receptionist, Assistiant Counselor, or student handing out meds is doing their job correctly. They aren't going to come by once a week and look over any reports taken, pointing out discrepancies, asking questions over why something was done a certain way, or certifing that things are being done properly.

Therefore, we can establish that since we know step one is true, and we know step two is true, it would then stand to reason that HLA was in violation of the law. Do you agree?

The government procedures doesnt mention that the person needs to have a phone number to a pharmacy or to stop by once a week to look over reports. The person needs to have a GED and to have oversight by a licensed person. You have not provided any proof that this wasnt being done and I havent seen any proof that this has been done. Like any other school in the US we need to look at the schools procedures and records to see how it was handled to know for sure. This may have been covered by the accredidation process and audits, but we would need to get a copy of what they cover during thier visits.

So at this point we just dont know if meds were being distributed correctly... maybe they were and maybe there were not. We need further facts to support a conclusion either way.

RobertBruce · « **Reply #186 on:** August 23, 2009, 10:54:50 AM »

John, follow this closely:

Quote

The person needs to have a GED and to have oversight by a licensed person

Once they fired the nurse there was no oversight John, no supervison whatsoever.

What is it you're looking for in terms of evidence John?

TheWho · « **Reply #187 on:** August 23, 2009, 12:58:47 PM »

Quote from: "RobertBruce"

John, follow this closely:

Quote
The person needs to have a GED and to have oversight by a licensed person

Once they fired the nurse there was no oversight John, no supervison whatsoever.

What is it you're looking for in terms of evidence John?

Unless you understood HLA procedures then you dont know what they did after the nurse left. The government doesnt require a nurse to be present for medication distribution. HLA never needed to hire a nurse to begin with as far as I can tell. If the med distribution was overseen by someone who was licensed...i.e the doctor prescribing the meds, the pharmacists, the doctors nurse or assistant etc. There is no requirement that this person needs to be on site.

If someone was sick (in any school across the country) it would be perfectly acceptable for a doctor to prescribe medication..... then to send someone to the pharmacy, speak to the pharmacist and then return with the medication and treat the child with it. This is done all the time, no one needs a license to do this. I think the difference is that there are many more kids involved so this would be a continuous process, not a one time event.

I would be interested to see what HLA's procedure was during this time period.

RobertBruce · « **Reply #188 on:** August 23, 2009, 01:16:26 PM »

Quote

If the med distribution was overseen by someone who was licensed...i.e the doctor prescribing the meds, the pharmacists, the doctors nurse or assistant etc. There is no requirement that this person needs to be on site.

It amazes me that you're still somehow missing it. By your own source and acknowledgement the person dispensing (not to mention running the infirmary) has to be supervised by someone who is licensed. How does having a magnet on a filing cabinet with the pharmacist phone number on it in your mind equate to supervision? The person is never on site John, ever. So then again, how is the non licensed staff member supervised?

TheWho · « **Reply #189 on:** August 23, 2009, 01:30:16 PM »

Quote from: "RobertBruce"

Quote
If the med distribution was overseen by someone who was licensed...i.e the doctor prescribing the meds, the pharmacists, the doctors nurse or assistant etc. There is no requirement that this person needs to be on site.

It amazes me that you're still somehow missing it. By your own source and acknowledgement the person dispensing (not to mention running the infirmary) has to be supervised by someone who is licensed. How does having a magnet on a filing cabinet with the pharmacist phone number on it in your mind equate to supervision? The person is never on site John, ever. So then again, how is the non licensed staff member supervised?

Show me where it states that a licensed person needs to be on site. I havent been able to find this requirement. If a doctor prescribes the medication and a pharmacist fills the prescription with instructions on its use and dispensing then a non licensed person can pick up this medication and bring it to the patient.

I am not saying you are wrong or HLA is right. I am just trying to understand if there were any laws broken and so far there isnt any evidence of that.

RobertBruce · « **Reply #190 on:** August 23, 2009, 02:05:58 PM »

John what in your mind constitutes supervison and oversight? Better yet, what's the legal standard?

TheWho · « **Reply #191 on:** August 23, 2009, 02:13:05 PM »

Quote from: "RobertBruce"

John what in your mind constitutes supervison and oversight? Better yet, what's the legal standard?

Those are the types of things that need to be defined. It is not up to you or I to define them. I have had people work for me who I have never met face to face and I have worked for people in other countries. I have also supervised people who are virtually joined at the hip so this would be an important piece to define before we determine if HLA was breaking any laws.
What level of supervision is needed in this particular area? Good question. We should take a closer look to see if this is defined anywhere.

RobertBruce · « **Reply #192 on:** August 23, 2009, 02:56:16 PM »

Alright, use your own example of people that you have supervised or worked for whom you never actually see. You would still have to submit or recieve reports and updates from them or to them correct?

TheWho · « **Reply #193 on:** August 23, 2009, 03:05:55 PM »

Quote from: "RobertBruce"

Alright, use your own example of people that you have supervised or worked for whom you never actually see. You would still have to submit or recieve reports and updates from them or to them correct?

Not if I was just providing oversight. But again we cant determine legality based on our own personal experiences.

RobertBruce · « **Reply #194 on:** August 23, 2009, 03:14:01 PM »

So you supervised people, that you never saw or spoke with, and never saw a single status update or report from? Did you have any actual authority over these people?

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