Author Topic: justice, and peaceful ends  (Read 800 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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justice, and peaceful ends
« on: July 21, 2009, 06:38:12 PM »
to the guest who signs "peace always"  I find myself a trifle annoyed by that signatory in this forum.. Ya see, it is the predators who depend on our willingness to seek peace. if you are prey, that is a wise strategem.. if you too, wish to live independently, well, not so practical to seek peace at any price. it is an often uncomfortable fact that violence has it's logic ( ie; what's to gain, what's to lose?  and what was to gain in our circumstance? well, power over others, and the dream of more, and monetary reward, and social standing.. all of which they got)  it seems to me that other words such as justice, honor, self respect apply here, as nebulous as those words may seem, think you about what underlies them.. and then go find that.. it was wrong then, it is wrong now, and it seeks to be undone, as it will be wrong in future and it will surely happen again to others, as defenseless as we were. ::unhappy::
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: justice, and peaceful ends
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2009, 07:11:48 PM »
putting them in jail will bring justice, I for one love the word peace I use it as a symbol of how I feel after I tell the world what scum they are,( I am much at peace when I type how I feel not how someone  wants me to feel) it also looks cool with the bird, I happen to love birds, and the thought of one day being fully  at Peace intrigues me, so I will stick with my Peace and bird signals, because I was not in any Peace at that place I was abused at, I suggest you use any way in  your wording and I shall stick to mine, they sound like they did a number on you, why do you not  chat about self, and maybe I will cut the peace shit, what happened to you in that place????? Open up and so will I. :twofinger:  :fuckoff:  :twofinger: Hows that  better???? :soapbox:  :rasta:  :cheers:  ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::  :peace:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: justice, and peaceful ends
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2009, 12:23:40 AM »
Hey ! I happen to like the little guy with the gun.. really got a nerve with that one, i suppose.. perhaps to clarify... for years and years people have told me to 'let it go' "get over it" and the like.. you'll perhaps notice that folk like underwood post here, and use a lofty tone, cool, detached, wry and oh so spiritual.. well obviously you were maltreated in much the same way i was, elsewise you wouldn't be here.. no, i'm not mocking you at all.. one thing i've noticed here is that people can finally connect with others who can confirm that yes, it really was that bad  what i despise most of all about the seed and it's like is the sheer, mind-numbing hypocrisy of it all.. that the seed folks and school officials and many others KNEW the program was corrupt and abusive yet they chose to ignore and deny.. we are talking about substantial money influence and power here, and yes, i think jail or forfeiture of all assets would be proper. no, it wouldn't give me back what i lost..  here's a thought...Did you know that in pinellas and west palm the seed specifically targeted the children of the prominent? scary, No?
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Offline Inculcated

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Re: justice, and peaceful ends
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2009, 01:07:02 AM »
Quote from: "justonemore"
here's a thought...Did you know that in pinellas and west palm the seed specifically targeted the children of the prominent? scary, No?
More than a few programs seem to have that objective as part of their agenda. A prominent program parent is way less likely to oppose them and has the advantages of networking possibilities.
Still other programs seem set up to pull in their fees by targeting children from the “system” (either from foster care or juvenile placements).
Mostly these places seem not above upping their body count by whatever means necessary regardless of individual needs of the kids.
 :karma:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
“A person needs a little madness, or else they never dare cut the rope and be free”  Nikos Kazantzakis

Offline Anonymous

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Re: justice, and peaceful ends
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2009, 09:51:25 AM »
It is sad that it is all about the old mighty dollar. I for one could not ever be given or compensated for what happened to me, and it is very hard for  me to type what happened, I am afraid that someone will just harm me again, I would like to see a jury type trial on this issue, time has no meaning when is comes to abuse, I now wonder how many souls were lost and never found, I believe many were murdered for the sake of money, for one I have a few names that can not be located,( by the way I have letters from one soul I am talking about) ( she was also started over like 14 times) and I did witness remarks like you can be eliminated and no one will ever find you, so I wonder  just how many kids were murdered and bodies never found , because if you think about it, no one has any records nor do they show that I have been there, oh I can prove I was there,my Mother for one will testify, point I am making is what happened to some of the souls in that place, think everyone should ask self, if they say no record on me, then how many no records are there, and no records mean no bodies as well, see what I am trying to say??? I believe Art Barker and his clan, have indeed killed souls, and somehow this is not being looked into, it never has been looked into. No records is a serious thing, that means my brother, sister, and all my cousins  have no record of ever being there????? This place goes deeper then just the pain we all went through as young kids, it is murder, rape,kidnapping,depriving of anything, everything was and still is illegal that went on there, I for one want to know what happened to the bodies they have no records , cults have ways of eliminating souls, I myself was told that while  my head was either in dirt, or my hair being pulled while being dragged like some  animal back after trying to escape that place, just think it is sad, that after having this place closed down, that it was not investigated, each soul should have had a head count, somehow I believe someone should look into this matter, people are lost daily, but to be put into a place like that, and to have no records, come on, how many years have to go by before someone  finds out deeper shit in that place. :guesswho: This sign reads Put the bastards away in jail where they belong! :guesswho:
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Offline Cyndeelouwho

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Re: justice, and peaceful ends
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2009, 12:34:26 PM »
From research I did awhile back when I tried to get my records in the late 90's, I came across information about why my entire family was targeted , when none of us were court ordered, addicted to anything (except maybe trying to fit in as a teen) and were poor.

$250 a child would have been a lot of dough in my family of 6 children back in the day, but apparently there was a "referrel" program where if you sent others there, the cost was covered. That and food donations which my mom covered by "donating" food from the school system where she worked.

Also, for those eligible, some insurance would cover some of the costs.

What I came to understand was that when Barker and crew set out in South Florida, they were riding the wave of the early drug wars and planted a picture to those who would listen of carnage on every street corner, a junkie in every back yard in South Florida.

Remember , this was the end of the sixties, peace , love and Greynolds Park were on the way out. The Vietnam war was happening and media  constantly ran news about the sad state of todays youth.

When Barker couldn't find the body count he expected from those who were incarcerated, he started his campaign to the school system and began recruiting.

Half the children in the program (ranging from 9-23 or so) when I was there did no drugs but were admitted for having a druggie attitude. I am sure this lingo was solely invented for the purpose of scaring parents and upping the body count.

What I still have the hardest time is understanding how a program like this talked the Dade county school system into allowing so many children to be pulled out of school with nothing in place to assure education was first and formost.

Personally, I missed nearly a year of school. My younger sister dropped out of school in 7th grade and never went back!
My brother graduated from a school outside our district, as did I.

So I guess my point is, it was a false hysteria that ignited this terrible inferno , run by junkies, alcoholics, thieves and those eluding  jail time. And these criminals were allowed to make decisions on our parents behalf for teenaged children, with absolutely no training, or regard to the outcome of their ignorance.

My parents were promised insanity, jail or death if I didn't go in, along with my three cousins , ages 9-15, and my two siblings, 13-14. Thats 6 fucking bodies, six fucking kids. Cha-ching..........

I plan to see my mom next week and I am hoping, since she is a pack rat of sorts, that she may have the seed manual or other propaganda that was used to convince her of my evil ways at the ripe old age of 16. If she does, I promise it will get published here because we all need a good laugh.

I will say it now, at 52 years of age and will never waver from this point, I learned more about drugs, drug use, alcohol use, sex, stealing, conning, manipulating and lying , than I ever knew,  pre seed.

Thanks seed, for giving me all that knowledge which has helped formed the person I am today, my therapist thanks you too and he wants my medical records.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2009, 04:22:52 PM by Cyndeelouwho »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: justice, and peaceful ends
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2009, 03:46:45 PM »
Well I myself cannot wait to see you, lets call Libby and make a lunch date, I for one would love to see the look on her face, while I snap a shot of her old ugly ass to post on this here sight, so all know who to look out for, see, my belief is, if you were as evil as you were back then, then you still are, and I know she so remembers us, I also know that it was for mere greed, thanks for writing that cyndee, you always were smart, have always looked up to you for being so smart, lets see how smart they are when finally the day comes when they have to show proof of pulling me out of school, and for what reason for, I for one am a little pissed that this shit still goes on right in front of peoples noses,  the government does this shit too, seems all get donations of some kind in this sick scam, so the ones that paid money did not get as abused???? Hey Cyndee that explains the half cartoons of cigarettes, they were also stealing cigarettes back then from all the cartoons the parents gave to them for their kids to smoke, I mean are they kidding me at this point in my life I do not know whether to hunt that bitch down myself  and drag her into court  to tell the courts the truth.I have read so many stories of death, rape, etc.... I myself am still trying to locate missing souls that were last seen at that place, And to think that my other younger  sisters were surely next to be put in , scares the shit out of me, its a real bad dream and I was awake  through the whole thing, it is horrible, to have something like this have to effect you because JUSTICE has not yet happened. By the way, that's Libbyist, responding in guests name, that is how lame she is, she will not even confront anyone, only a  lying prostitute heroin infested kidnapper child abusing dog abuser, would hide, Like her and the leftover trash from back in the blimp hanger days. Makes me so mad because I use to love to sit on the roof as a child and watch the blimp come by, imagine being a kidnapped as a  child  put in an old abandoned blimp hanger, that is very very messed up, sounds like a very fucked up cover up of a concentration camp to me, well Cyndee I hope I hurt a few ears, see you soon,  I LOVE you sis, just not the seed way,Peace( I hope Justine sees my peace sign) :peace:
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: justice, and peaceful ends
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2009, 05:09:28 PM »
as to targeting.. yes, it was drug war hysteria.. remember being threatened with court order upon reaching age of majority? remember "maximum"morphonius.. tell me bribes weren't paid to her.. I spoke to a very reputable man on the west coast and he told me that when he, as part of an official inquiry, began looking into the seeds books, all of a sudden there were 17 kids who appeared to say that he'd smoked dope with them.. almost lost his career over that one..one reason that i was 'selected' is that my parent worked for the government, and that the seed wanted access to viet-nam vets who had drug problems.. what that tells me is that school officials and social workers and others were providing them with information.. information paid for in some way.. hell, after i got out (years after the fact) two of my teachers told me that they were threatened because they questioned whether i needed to be in such a place, that they knew me and knew i no longer smoked, had just lost interest in "finding my inner delinquent".. my point here is that records exist corroboration exists i'm just not skilled enough to find it there is a clear trail somewhere, and i bet it's financial and official are you listening Libby? " everything hidden will be revealed, all secret things uncovered"
 to the poster who described being afraid of the seed even decades after the fact,, well hell that level of collusion and corruption scares me to this day.
My family was threatened and the stigma of that place followed me for a long time, even into federal service..( had to explain my interrupted school career.. Boy Howdy! that was fun! talking to gray men in suits about my time there..no, it did'nt go well.. try explaining that you were incarcerated because you were not guilty.. it's a hoot, i tell you!)  i like the little guy with the gun the gun range is my "happy place" ::unhappy::
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Offline Cyndeelouwho

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Re: justice, and peaceful ends
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2009, 05:50:34 PM »
The intial reason I was looking for my records is similar. I went to work for the government in the National Park Service and was requested to provide documentation regarding my time at the seed.

No records, I was told then. No fucking records. Try explaining that to the feds in charge of hiring.

Needless to say, I got hired but it was a bit troubling trying to explain the void.

WTF, how the hell does a place backed by good ole US dollars (grants) get to exist without being liable for basic accounting and transparency.

I had to use that word, it is so 2009

Who the hell did these addicts and drunkards think they were? Did they think we would never grow up and tell? Did they really believe the brainwashing techniques would carry over and alls well that ends well.

What a crock of shit, what a fucking joke.

I hope Barker suffers a slow, demented, painful last few years.

And thats being kind for what he and his crew of bozos did to so many, many people.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: justice, and peaceful ends
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2009, 08:09:56 PM »
Yea! :twofinger:
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: justice, and peaceful ends
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2009, 08:27:20 PM »
I like the little guy with the gun too Justin, I think I like you too,( as a person) I am sorry for the things you went through at that stupid hell hole, great points about the work place and all, see that's the shit people do not understand, is it was hard to do anything after that horrible place, I bet Fart Barker never had a problem handing over 50 thousand dollars to Libby either, after all it was the tax payers hard earned money and families s as well, it just is crazy to think that she thinks nothing would be said.Here's Justice, I say a fair jury trial, allow all the victims who want to participate to come forward and tell the judge what happen, yea yea I know I am not as smart as all you, but my bum has street smarts and well, that counts, I really am not as dumb as all may think, so watch out especially you Libbyist, no court ordered junkie is going to get away with lying any more. :twofinger:  ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::  :peace:
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: justice, and peaceful ends
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2009, 11:26:01 PM »
to guest: thank you, but mes'damme you wound.. no really thank you I'm sorry for what i went through, and for what you and everybody else( except the perpetrators.. they were witting and therefore culpable) see, i've had some time to ponder on this and here's my take.. there are those here who've expressed guilt and trepidation because they were not themselves the 'fighters' that they acquiesced too easily.. i say not quite.. i say there different ways to go when confronted by horror, and which way you go will be determined by an infinite number of variables, inclluding the resources you have available AT THAT MOMENT.. do not discount sleep deprivation as a technique.. it's very effective in 'breaking' people.. given time it works every time.. if you are witness to someone else's torment. you are yourself tormented, wounded.. believe me it's much harder to watch someone else 'take the hit' than it is to 'take the hit yourself.. most people are wired that way, i believe.. a smaller number , i believe are wired such that they simply don't care if someone else is hurt, they don't identify another person as "real"  these are the people who became staffers, i believe, and this is a character or personality disorder or what have you that is the stuff of deep , irredeemable criminality.. Indeed, what finally is the difference between killing someone outright and kidnapping them and utterly humiliating them day after day after day after day.. what level of violence is that? and compounding that, in my view compounding that immensely is the never ending preaching to all and sundry( the victims most of all) that it was for their own good, and that they deserved it, and indeed were LUCKY to have such an opportunity for redemption! ah well my gorge rises at the memory.one among us can surely find the trail .
I tell you true folks the perpetrators are there, records are there somewhere ( hey libby? ya burning stuff?) better watch close , for this is the beginning of your fall, and i betcha by golly it's a long way down!  hey wait! here's my favorite little guy! ::unhappy::
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: justice, and peaceful ends
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2009, 10:09:14 AM »
Good post Juston, and yes Justice is just around the corner, what year were you at this hell hole? me the 70's, I do not know how long that place was open when I was dragged in there, just remember that it was dark smokey ,thick too and dreadful, you know I have been thinking about everything, and it is something that a young thirteen year old girl( who never did drugs nor was ever in trouble) had to be beaten tied up I mean hog tied rolled up in a rug  and dragged in by at least 6 much huger adults,( while they did this I managed to get free and ran while there, only to run to a fence that had been bob wired at top, I almost got over the fence when I got stuck on it,( I did not know bob wire could do such damage, I also never had to run so fast in my life and climb over a huge ass fence as that one was) okay now I am hanging upside down and tearing clothes and getting hurt cut up and  also now I was being pulled off and kicking and struggling scared shitless the whole time, that was my experience the first day, not to mention now I am being dragged in and  by many huge men, men are now holding me down,( who later on in life I find out were ex cons druggies rapist, heroin using prostitutes, etc....) nice huh, fucked up is more like it) I was trying to remember why my mother would have to go to such extreme to get a child into a place with her,( she was told that was the only way)( I guess that that was part of the so called experiment) because they were really dumb had they just told me it was a blimp hanger I would have walked right in, they must have seriously convinced so many parents to do this, see I was the bait, once I was in it was easier to get my brother and sister in, but why the dragging and scarring and hurting mentally,( and yes at this point now I am injured crying screaming myself ) because they had  the upper hand  as parents, and I did listen to my parents back then so I do not understand the kidnapping part, if you all had seen how tiny I was then,and I will post some pictures when my sister gets here to show you all how tiny for one I was, and also to show you how much my sisters and brothers loved each other and how happy we were before all this crap went on,all the pictures of us as children back then always smiling, and I am happy I have these pictures to show how happy we all were till that horrible period in our lives, see because  within a period you will see that I split that place on own, and never been back,( nor did I go back to my family, I knew I would just be sent back to that horrible place, and school was out of question, because everyone that went to school also started over, I was not having that crap any more in my life) that was after being started over and me realizing I was never going to be allowed to escape with my freedom freedom meaning my soul, well now I am beaten sitting but trying with all my might to remove the kidnappers from my arms and legs, this is all done after coming home from school, I was about to go to my swim team when this all took place, yes I was into swimming big time, what I loved, I was on 2 swim teams, and did gymnastics, including high diving, I could dive off a 12 meter that's how well I was getting at diving, till this crap happened to me, plus it was what made me go to school because I was not into school too much just the sports part, but if I wanted the sports I had to also do the general studies as well, so sports are a great way to keep kids in school, well that was all taken from me, nice huh,not too many kids back then were into the sports that  I was, it was more hanging out with kids then sports back then, but I was really focused more on sports, me having asthma swimming also helped me open lungs up as well, no one ever even knew I had asthma, except my family, I will say being active does help open lungs up, can ask my mom too, I never would take pills of any kind ever nothing I was too into being healthy, I was even a vegetarian , just trying to give all a look at what my activities were back then, I had no time for anything other then  swimming and gymnastics, in fact I stayed  hours a day in the gym room at school daily after school to practice.I was quiet at school did not hang out with  but maybe 2 souls back then, Nancy who is still my best girl, she saw what I went through, I remember going back to school and being told I could not talk to her because she was my past, my past, she was a straight a student that before that place would  help me  with my school work, she was the best thing in my life had always been, it is true that most were into clicks and shit, I was not, I was  just a kid too.Imagine being told that you no longer can hang out with your best friend whom you grew up with, knowing she never did drugs either and was one of the highest levels of any student in that school, well past, I would never have listened to anyone when it came to Nancy, trust me there, I knew she was my friend true friend for life, I guess when I look at my past, I see how strong a soul I really am, true friends stay together through thick and thin, and Nancy she was always there for me,( as I for her) her father was a chief of police, and mother worked with the school board, gee I sound like I hung with the worst kind , needless to say, I told my girlfriend I had had enough, I was so skinny back then after coming home from that place that even she was frighten for me,( she was so worried she would bring me food from her home  and  sit and eat with me) I finally had to bid farewell to everyone, the thirteen year old girl had seen and witnessed so much at that horrible place that she knew she was not going to be going back to her home as a child again,( in other words I now run away from my mothers home) I now made my own decision to live on own and never to see my family again, I now was on the streets, and  was learning to survive on own, I would go to my friends sometimes, I found a job immediately at some pizza place some place in skylake mall, no one knew I was there, I worked daily and had money in no time, in fact the owner could not believe I was 18( I was almost 14 now) and well he did not care because he never had anyone work so hard , so he just let it go, they were like my new family at this point, my family never knew I was there.Time goes by fast, but the working kept me busy, and the  money made a difference, I was now on own and I knew it, but I was always frightened scared that someone would turn a corner one day and take me away, back to that dreadful place, children should not have to go through this at such a young age, I am lucky I made it, but I will tell you this, the things I saw in that place were far worse then anything I had witnessed and seen on the outside, and I would have worked round the clock which I did and let you throw pizzas at me all day long to stay out of that hell hole. I do remember missing my family I had once known, and my activities  especially swimming, I was no longer ever going to be able to be a young girl again, may days being a child were taken from me in more ways then anyone can imagine, but ohhhhhhhh, the freedom, it was bliss that I had never known and would truly remember the rest of my life.  ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::  :peace:
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Offline Cyndeelouwho

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Re: justice, and peaceful ends
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2009, 01:00:21 PM »
The people who were in charge of my care taking were the sickest people on the planet. People who were ordered by the court to seek help for themselves or GO TO JAIL. Instead, they were given charge of my life, my siblings life, my cousins life and thousands of other South Florida youth whose parents drank the kool aid and signed up for the war on drugs.
What a crock of shit. As an adult , I now realise this was all to line the pocket of an alcoholic child molester who conned, stole and scammed his way into a waterfront condo with trappings like limos (fuck you, you are not famous) trying to run for congress(what a fucking ego) and having sex with minors and his adopted daughter.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: justice, and peaceful ends
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2009, 01:15:37 PM »
I must admit...

If I had terminal cancer, or something that would end my life soon, I would take out Barker, Libby and Underwood.
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