WASSPS'S Loving Care

[spots]

This is an exchange I initiated on voyforums.  I really wanted an answer, and not for the sole purpose of knowing what to fight.  I really wanted an answer.  Every so often, I am exhausted by the fight, and every so often, I wonder if there could be any goodness in WWASPS's treatment.

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: WWASP Love  


Author:
rivergait
[Edit]  
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Date Posted: 12:17:40 08/14/03 Thu

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I hear continually from parents (not kids) in WWASPS about how the program "loves" the kids, how the staffers surround them with "love".

This is not a flippant request. Can you give me some examples of what love is from a stranger? What happens to change an employee of a firm into a lover of his charges? Somehow I can't see even a devoted mentor teacher in a university setting "loving" a student. Is this a variation of Tough Love?

As I said, this is not a flippant request. I'd really like to know why some parents feel this way.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: WWASP Love  


Author:
Gail
[Edit]  
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Date Posted: 13:17:55 08/15/03 Fri

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Rivergait - what is love from a "stranger." The staff are not "strangers." The love comes not from the outside, but from the inside, the heart. They see the good in our kids even when they don't see it themselves. They listen, they encourage, they're never too busy to stop what they're doing and take time for whatever they need. They say, "YOU CAN" - They see when they are making good decisions and acknowledge them for it, not just with points, but with their words. They use their own time, and often money, to take them on off campus activities. They have a spirit of "we", not "us and them." Some are not texbook teachers, but life experience teachers and role models. Talk to any grad and they will tell you more.

I was around them enough to know they truly do love each one even when the kids don't love themselves. It's not the "program" that loves them, it's the person in ways that I can't properly explain. You'd only need to experience it yourself to understand.

*********************************

I was surprised by the "truthfulness" of Gail in her response.  I believe she really believes.  To the survivors who post here, what do you think?  [and I expect an explosion of hate] ...but were there ever times, or staffers, who were nice to you?  Was there *ever* a time when you were allowed off-campus time, i.e., paid for by a loving staffers own money, etc.?

Signed, Sue Kolbo, "Woodbury Groupie (not PURE) by way of reading strugglingteens more than PURE.

[Anonymous]

Spots -  "What if" your daughter would agree for you to go to Casa by the Sea (with her) so you could see with your own eyes what Gail is saying may be true?  I acknowledge your being left to imagine all the horror stories as being true has been very hard for you. What your daughter is doing sounds like torture, because you DON'T know.

I would talk to her, write to her, whatever means you have and tell her that all you want to do is KNOW that she is safe and loved and all you have to go on is newspaper articles and stories that you read.  

It's easier to believe the bad stuff if you don't have knowledge of the good stuff.

[spots]

Well, visiting Ensenada with her mother might be fine and dandy, and certainly an option that I hadn't considered.  However, ONE BIG PROBLEM.......

Even her mother is not allowed to see her yet.  Gee, and it's only been 9-1/2 months.  She just got her Level III last month, with one short monitored phone call, and, gosh-oh-golly, she still hasn't *earned* a visit by her mother. Now, if I really wanted to see if she was being loved and not chained to the hallway wall by her wrists, I guess I could wait until Christmas or so and then ask to visit with Mom. Oh, but that's not a real visit; that's only PC1, a 3day seminar on-site only for family that has passed the Discovery seminar themselves.  

But I'll definitely keep it in mind.  The original posting on this thread had to do with the loving staff spending their own money to take kids on off-site field trips.  Maybe that happens after the kids have been in WWASPS for 2 or more years, but for the 80% who don't graduate and are pulled beforehand, I bet they never see the outside of those 20-ft. stucco walls with huge wooden stockade gates until their families arrive at the gates to take them home.

Ya know, I posted this "love" question with a tiny bit of an open mind, but that opening just snapped shut.  It is a horror story, and I believe everything I read, short of physical abuse, at Casa by the Sea.  Suggesting I visit and see for myself how well she is doing?  Are you crazy?  Seems like you don't have a modicum of experience with these folks.  Who are you, anyway, Anon?

[Anonymous]

Spots - as you stated you believe everything you read, short of physical abuse, I am providing a link to what I think you've already found in these pages.  Some are written by the staff, as well.  

I know how easy it is to believe the negative.  I find myself there more often that I'd like.  As I read these pages, I see another side.

I also understand more of "why" it takes some students longer to "get it" than others.  Your daughter can see her child anytime, but has chosen to wait until her daughter feels it's important enough.  I've also read some that say they read "trust the program", however, I have read "trust the process" which makes a lot more sense.  

What has stopped you from going to the Discovery seminar?  Would your daughter be more open to your involvement if you took the first step?

[Anonymous]

http://www.wwasp.com/thesource.htm - Here's the link.

[anon]

[ This Message was edited by: KarenZ on 2003-10-17 16:45 ]

[Anonymous]

Spots - How did the phone call go?  You said it was short.

Karen - I understand where you're coming from.  Some kids wouldn't be trusted to go on an off grounds pass.  The parents CAN do this, but face the consequence of the same behavior they were showing at home.  What would the "run risk" be if they chose to do this.  There's never any guarantee they won't run at any level, right?  Any school/program?  From everything I've read, it's recommended, not set in stone, as the parents DO have the right at anytime to do whatever they want. I suspect many have.  I'd be interested to find out how it went.

[Janet]

At present I am trying to mend a broken shoulder and it is hard to type so I'll keep my question short.  

My ex-friend iswas Roman Catholic as was her daughter she sent to Crosscreek Manor.  Would her daughter be able to to confession?  Would she be able to go to confession at the upper levels?  Would WWASPS trust a teenager to go into a private
confessional at her place of worship?  Somehow I think not, and this would  still be  another violation of a young person's rights being done by a loving, Christian TBS.  I FORGOT, going out to church could be a run risk.

Janet

[Janet]

At present I am trying to mend a broken shoulder and it is hard to type so I'll keep my question short.  

My ex-friend iswas Roman Catholic as was her daughter she sent to Crosscreek Manor.  Would her daughter be able to to confession?  Would she be able to go to confession at the upper levels?  Would WWASPS trust a teenager to go into a private
confessional at her place of worship?  Somehow I think not, and this would  still be  another violation of a young person's rights being done by a loving, Christian TBS.  I FORGOT, going out to church could be a run risk.

Janet

[spots]

A parent cannot visit a child in WWASPS on demand.  A visit has a set-in-stone progression.  Should a parent be unsure and wish to arrange a visit, this response comes from St. George:

To do so will "VOID THE WARRANTY".  

Doesn't say so anywhere in the contract.  Common sense makes most parents think they can check in with their kids if they're worried.  Not so.  Ask any parent who has shown up at the door to pull their kid, and you will hear the same story over and over, different facilities, same story.  [Try Lou Kizner's "Desperate Measures" article for a beginning primer on the subject, and then talk to the hundred or so parents who I personally have asked about pulling their children.] Staff will threaten, cajole, try reasoning, anything in their power to dissuade parents pulling their children.  Many parents take police, private bodyguards, even goons who normally escort "to" WWASPS to ensure getting their childlren back.  

I could give you about a dozen phone numbers to verify this, but you seem short on the inclination to investigate.  FYI, I SUBSCRIBE to The Source and get the glossy delivered to my home every other month.[family member; asked Utah and it came].  If that is what you cite as proof-positive of virtue, I'd like to invite you to join with me on fundraising for Gray Davis' campaign in 2004.  Just send me the money, and I'll make sure it gets to him.  

If you feel a giant lack in your life, the empty void, YOU go to a Discovery seminar.  Our whole extended family is very happy and healthy, with this one tiny exception:  WWASPS.  I do not need to attend a transparent rah-rah assembly to be fulfilled.  Oh, and it's not such a well-kept secret ["Don't spoil it!"].   :wstupid: I have pretty definitive information on the adult version; the kids' version I will know about when my grandaughter returns.

You need to do a lot more investigating.  Your only looking at the tip of the iceberg, like the Titanic.

[Anonymous]

I'm not here to burst anyone's bubble, really!  There are parents on campus every single day!  No knowledge of Dundee, but considering it was in Costa Rica, that probably isn't the same thing.  I was driving to Salt Lake City and stopped by Cross Creek.  As I'd been there many times before, I was able to go unannounced.  It was around dinner time, so they didn't prepare anything "special" and it was very good, balanced and plentiful.  I was the only parent there at that point.  They didn't have "time" to prepare whatever it is you think they do for visitors.  

Going to pull your kid.   The staff see that a child isn't ready, so I'm sure I would do the same thing and do my job of getting my opinion known.  That doesn't make any sense to not be able to get your child at will.  THey are not a prison/jail, so all they need is proof of parental rights and they can do anything they want.  Of course they would try and talk a parent out of it, unless the kid was doing REALLY well.  That's my opinion.  If an RTC anywhere doesn't do this, I'd be really surprised.  

On the LOVE - WOW!  Heart and soul!  It's great to know there are people that get paid for doing what they love.

[Anonymous]

TB Enrollment Agreement Item #13:

"...Visits may occur after the student has earned Level 4, has been in the School/Program a minimum of three months, has had several successful phone calls, and has been approved by the Family Representative, and Staff Team. The first visit may only be approved for just on-grounds, as determined by the School/Program. Sponsors understand and agree to follow the School/Progream's visit and comunication policies. Sponsors further agree that if they violate the School/Program's communication and visit policies the School/Program may at their option discharge the student, and yet still hold the Sponsors financially accountable and responsible for the tuition on the remainder of the contract period (see Item #3)and/or the time that would equal proper written notice (see Item #33)."

TB Parent Manual, Pages 22-23

"Once your child reaches Level 4 your child is eligible for family day visits. Visits are an earned privilege for the students, so we ask for your support in waiting until your child is on Level 4 before arranging a visit. It is important for your child to earn this privilege. It is also important that we set an example by ahering to the program rules ourselves. For this reason, we ask that you refrain from requesting any exceptions, as it negatively affects not only your child's progress, but the other student's in the Program. This was agreed to as part of our accepting the girl in the Program. (See Enrollment Agreement #13). Visitors other than parents must be approved by the parents and the Family Representative, who, together, will determine the structure of the visit. All visits (on grounds, off grounds, and home visits) are scheduled with the Family Representative. The initial visit will only be approved if the telephone calls with the parents have been productive.

When your child reaches Level 5 she is eligible for overnight visits. The Family Representative will confer with the Treatment Team to determine eligibility.

When your child achieves Level 6 home visits are encouraged. Home visits are not considered before the student is on Level 6. Home visits are determined on an inividual basis according to your child's progress."

Judy

[Anonymous]

On 2003-08-16 19:25:00, spots wrote:

"This is an exchange I initiated on voyforums.  I really wanted an answer, and not for the sole purpose of knowing what to fight.  I really wanted an answer.  Every so often, I am exhausted by the fight, and every so often, I wonder if there could be any goodness in WWASPS's treatment.



[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: WWASP Love  





Author:

rivergait

[Edit]  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date Posted: 12:17:40 08/14/03 Thu



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I hear continually from parents (not kids) in WWASPS about how the program "loves" the kids, how the staffers surround them with "love".



This is not a flippant request. Can you give me some examples of what love is from a stranger? What happens to change an employee of a firm into a lover of his charges? Somehow I can't see even a devoted mentor teacher in a university setting "loving" a student. Is this a variation of Tough Love?



As I said, this is not a flippant request. I'd really like to know why some parents feel this way.



[ Post a Reply to This Message ]

 

 

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: WWASP Love  





Author:

Gail

[Edit]  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date Posted: 13:17:55 08/15/03 Fri



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Rivergait - what is love from a "stranger." The staff are not "strangers." The love comes not from the outside, but from the inside, the heart. They see the good in our kids even when they don't see it themselves. They listen, they encourage, they're never too busy to stop what they're doing and take time for whatever they need. They say, "YOU CAN" - They see when they are making good decisions and acknowledge them for it, not just with points, but with their words. They use their own time, and often money, to take them on off campus activities. They have a spirit of "we", not "us and them." Some are not texbook teachers, but life experience teachers and role models. Talk to any grad and they will tell you more.



I was around them enough to know they truly do love each one even when the kids don't love themselves. It's not the "program" that loves them, it's the person in ways that I can't properly explain. You'd only need to experience it yourself to understand.



*********************************



I was surprised by the "truthfulness" of Gail in her response.  I believe she really believes.  To the survivors who post here, what do you think?  [and I expect an explosion of hate] ...but were there ever times, or staffers, who were nice to you?  Was there *ever* a time when you were allowed off-campus time, i.e., paid for by a loving staffers own money, etc.?



Signed, Sue Kolbo, "Woodbury Groupie (not PURE) by way of reading strugglingteens more than PURE.



 

 

"

Sue, I can't help but notice that after 2 days and many posts on this thread, your original question has not been answered.

Maybe we can try again...

Judy

[Anonymous]

Thanks Judy - these are recommendations only.  Good try.  Show me where parents give up parental rights.  That happens only when they are incarcerated in the legal system. Please be clear - are you a controller?  Or you gotta be right?  which is it?

[Anonymous]

On 2003-08-18 17:12:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Thanks Judy - these are recommendations only.  Good try.  Show me where parents give up parental rights.  That happens only when they are incarcerated in the legal system. Please be clear - are you a controller?  Or you gotta be right?  which is it?"

I simply typed word for word from 2 wwasp documents, didn't offer any personal statements. So how does that make me a controller who's gotta be right?

Or are you attacking me because of what any reasonable person can read between those lines? I hope that is the case. It shows you are still somewhat capable of critical thinking.

Judy