« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 9 10 [11] 12 13 ... 23   Go Down

Author Topic: blog of a program parent  (Read 38516 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: blog of a program parent
« Reply #150 on: April 04, 2009, 07:55:51 PM »
::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Logged

Offline TheWho

  • Posts: 7256
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: blog of a program parent
« Reply #151 on: April 04, 2009, 07:56:44 PM »
So if cheating is deemed acceptable here then being told you have to study must be considered abusive.  I am starting to catch on to the definitions here.  I can see how badly you were abused studying in orange jumpsuits is very abusive!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Logged

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: blog of a program parent
« Reply #152 on: April 04, 2009, 08:15:09 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Cheating must be the norm and no big deal, sorry I pointed that out.

http://careertechtesting.blogspot.com/2 ... chool.html

"64 Percent Admit to Cheating on Tests In High School this past year"

Your horror at katie's cheating and your conclusion Katie should be imprisoned without due process because of it, or get a “cat,” or perhaps thrown onto the street or is otherwise pathological are abusive thought processes and reactions:
viewing "normal" though non-ideal behavior as quixotically "bad" and responding to it with disproportionate aggression, and with a failure to understand it in its context: she has been denied any education and tortured into insanity. Grade level accomplishment and ideal behavior is unfair to expect, yet she faces shaming and torment should she fail her test.

You’re like Nixmary Brown’s dad. Nixmary Brown stole a yogurt. That behavior is "normal" though non-ideal. But, like you, her step-dad saw it as “bad,” unrealistically. Like you, he responded to it with disproportioned aggression: he beat Brown to death. Like you, he failed to understand it the action within the context of its environment: he was starving the child

With some exceptions, abusiveness is what makes a parent a "program parent" NOT a child's behavior.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Logged

Offline TheWho

  • Posts: 7256
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: blog of a program parent
« Reply #153 on: April 04, 2009, 08:19:44 PM »
Quote
They did a room check, and she (Katie) had some things in her room she shouldn't have.  I don't remember what it was, but something she shouldn't have.

On one hand these seem to be some pretty stupid and extreme rules. On the other though, that is exactly the point. Don't we all have to live with some stupid and arbitrary rules. And the main thing is to learn to follow rules, period. And be accountable for all your choices, including when you choose not to follow the rules.

She had so many write-ups that he couldn't go over them all. It sounded like she just went nuts - things like "Disrespecting peers - 70 times".
[/i]

Yikes!!  Not really focused on the program is she.  Must have been the programs fault or her parents, for sure.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Logged

Offline TheWho

  • Posts: 7256
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: blog of a program parent
« Reply #154 on: April 04, 2009, 08:31:16 PM »
Quote
Like you, he responded to it with disproportioned aggression: he beat Brown to death. Like you, he failed to understand it the action within the context of its environment: he was starving the child

Love this logic.  So this justifies cheating since this father over reacted then cheating seems pale compared to his actions.  So you conclude cheating is okay, therefore Katie didn’t do anything that bad.lol

So again the evil program drove her to it and Katie is the victim, lovely.  Do you think anyone was actually abused in a program, ever? Was it okay that Katie had to go back to Orange or was that abusive too and not Katies fault?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Logged

Offline TheWho

  • Posts: 7256
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Katie Update
« Reply #155 on: April 04, 2009, 08:56:47 PM »
Well, so far, Katie has managed to keep herself from moving forward in the program.  There isnt anything that indicates Cross Creek has done anything wrong, Katie is pretty much making her own life miserable.  If there is any abuse going on it is coming from Katie not the program.  I am still reading the blog but Cross creek is really trying to help Katie but she isnt responding yet and doesnt feel she needs any help, although obviously her behavior says otherwise.
I will keep checking in with updates.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Logged

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: blog of a program parent
« Reply #156 on: April 04, 2009, 09:03:03 PM »
http://www.heal-online.org/crosscreek.htm
Kelly Adams
Houston, TX
kcadams1980@yahoo.com

What can possibly be said or written about an experience so  damaging it irrevocably altered the course or my life ?It's not an easy task for me to tell a sensual, chronicled account of my 18 months of incarceration at Cross Creek Manor in Southern Utah. I use the word "incarceration," because that is what it was - package the process in whatever manipulations you wish, but the reality is that we were locked up. If you remember nothing else, remember this: The proprietors of WWASP and other similar Behavior Modification "Schools" are master manipulators.

I was woken up in the middle of the night by 3 strangers. I was told to get out of bed and get dressed.  One stranger followed me to the bathroom and watched while I changed. I was extremely disoriented - I'm not sure I realized I was awake  - so I didn't fight my "kidnappers." I was instructed to get into a strange car. I got in the car without "incident," and heard the doors lock me in. I began to get very scared and I started asking my kidnappers,  where they were taking me. No one would tell me. I guess I was beginning to raise my voice (I was feeling a bit hysterical), and that's when I was informed without a shred of sympathy if I gave them "any trouble" I would be put in handcuffs or otherwise physically restrained.

they told me I was going to a nice school for girls like me. I believed that I was going to some type of 90-day rehab, I would go back home,  and my parents would love me again.

When we pulled up to Cross creek manor, I didn't think it looked so bad  My kidnappers escorted me through the doors where 100 or so pairs of eyes all staring at me greeted me as if I was some sort of carnival freak show.  All the girls were gathered out in the central foyer area for the nightly "Manor meeting." I was wary of all those girls in sweat pants and slippers who looked like a bunch of robots. I was taken to a room with a couple of “high-phase” girls who did my “intake.” I pleaded and insisted I didn't belong there, and they just started laughing. One of the girls told me, patronizingly, "Yeah, none of us belong here either."

Shortly afterwards I was strip-searched and "nix-ed" (de-loused) by a very scary , very large woman - I was unbelievably mortified. The other girls petrified me - when they spoke, it sounded to me like someone was playing a tape recorder, and they had absolutely no sympathy for me.

 My first day in "Group" with Ron (he was the director of Cross Creek at the time) he asked me why I was there. All the girls were sitting around in a circle staring at me like I was a murderer, so I said "because my parents sent me here," COMPLETELY without a hint of attitude (I wasn't yet accustomed to the program double-speak). This sent Ron into a tirade - he yelled that I was a drug addict and ruining my family's lives, etc., etc. After a lengthy barrage of aggressive, mean-spirited "feedback" from the other girls in the group, I sat down, shaken and unable to process what had jhappened.

After I had spent about two weeks in Orientation (OR) Group with Ron, I joined my "home" group with the intimidating therapist at the helm, Garth. Garth was a very large man, which he used to his advantage to create a aggressive and imposing persona. Even before Cross Creek, men easily intimidated me, but being under Garth's "tutelage" worsened my fears.

Here is where things began to get really messy. In my 18 months at Cross Creek, there were so many harmful and traumatizing incidences that occurred - it would be impossible for me to recount every one. With that in mind, I will try instead to paint a general picture that will illustrate the kind of experience that I had.

Unlike many of the girls at CCM, I was never "restrained," but I witnessed this incredibly disturbing spectacle too many times to count. I was too paralyzed with fear to ever consider doing anything that I thought might cause me to be "taken down" by staff. I remember watching girls being taken down that were simply arguing with a staff - not physically endangering themselves or others - and they would be dragged, literally, kicking and screaming downstairs and into ISO (the 12 ft., locked "isolation" rooms). I also remember seeing a girl sitting in ISO who had cut herself and smeared blood all over her face and arms.

There were other girls who I saw with broken noses and injured arms/shoulders that were put into makeshift "slings" that consisted only of an Ace bandage. I knew several girls who had sustained physical injuries as a result of being taken down - i.e., broken noses, dislocated shoulders, torn ligaments, etc.

There were plenty of girls who I saw sitting in ISO for days, weeks, and even months at a time.


 From my first day at CCM, I was told (and screamed at) that I was a worthless person, a disappointment to my family, a hopeless drug addict, a bitch and  slut, a waste of space, a horrible human being and whatever other disparaging remarks the staff and other girls could muster. When I first arrived at CCM, I wasn't addicted to drugs  however, I, like many other girls, was coerced into proclaiming/believing that I was hopelessly addicted to drugs. It was made very obvious that if I did not affirm the program's assessment of me that I would never advance past level one, so I played along (at first), and eventually began to internalize and believe everything that they said.

The infamous T.A.S.K.S. seminars & group "processes" were especially hurtful. One of my "issues" that I had to deal with at Cross Creek was childhood sexual abuse at 11 years old, and.

 During one of the Focus "processes," (which I have been sworn to secrecy never to tell about) I was physically held down by four other Cross Creek girls (high phase girls who were seminar staff) while a fifth girl screamed into my face that "HE'S ON TOP OF YOU AGAIN!!! AREN'T YOU GOING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT?? ARE YOU JUST GOING TO LET HIM DO IT TO YOU AGAIN?? WHAT KIND OF SLUT ARE YOU??"
I was crying and screaming so hard that I could barely see - I kicked and thrashed as hard as I could, but the four other girls just kept pinning me down to the floor, and I was unable to get out from under them.

There was another "process" that Garth facilitated, during which we had to write our own tombstones (the idea was for us to experience that we had died due to our "behavior"). After we had all written them, Garth and a few high phase girls from our group went around the room and screamed into our faces anything hurtful that they could manage to make us feel like worthless and horrible human beings.

 When it was my turn, Garth approached me calmly and told me, coldly & without emotion, that my grandfather (my mother's father, whom I loved very much) was dead. My grandfather had emphysema and was repeatedly in and out of the Emergency Room, so this was hardly a stretch. Garth and the other girls shouted inches away from my face that my grandfather died knowing that I was a worthless bitch, a drug addict, and that I had ruined my family. They told me that he died knowing what a horrible person I was. By this point I was sobbing uncontrollably and finding it difficult to remain standing, so one of the high phase girls was holding me up for the continued barrage of abuse. After they finished with me, Garth and the other girls moved on to their next victim - and the scene continued on, as it had with me.

The next day, Garth called me into his office and told me that he was "mistaken" about my grandfather, and that he hadn't really died. I sobbed from relief that he was still living. l do not believe that Garth made an innocent "mistake." he purposefully used my grandfather's illness to traumatize me during a process. it worked.

 I was never one of the girls routinely taken down, but it still took me months to  advance in the program. Let me explain - although the program cronies would say like to say otherwise, unless you cry in group and painting a very melodramatic picture of your "issues," you will not advance, and you will not go home (which is where we ALL wanted to be).
I had a hard time expressing emotion -especially when put on the spot in-group. Thus, my inability to "be real," (translation: cry) held me on the low levels for a good seven months.

As I stated earlier, I was always very bright. My intelligence, apparently, was something to be ashamed of. I was routinely punished and chastised in-group for being "better than," and being "in my head". I was specifically reprimanded in-group for using "big words". This was all brought on because I was trying to help some of the other girls with their schoolwork, which was, apparently, a bad thing. After being "confronted" about my "intelligence issue," (yes, they actually called it that) I remember trying to dumb myself down in order to not incur the group's criticism.

WWSP "school" system is, at best, laughable. I was a very good student. At Cross Creek (or "Browning Academy" as WWASP likes to refer to the fictional "school" associated with their programs), I was given a remedial level textbook for each respective class and instructed to complete the chapter exercises and a chapter test. This was the extent of our "education," and it was a mockery of my intellectual ability. I learned absolutely nothing my "senior year" in "high school"

Eventually, I advanced to level three. But let me first let you know that I wasn't allowed to speak to my parents on the phone until I had been there for four months, the first time I saw my parents was after seven months, and the first time I saw my two brothers was after nine or ten months.

I was not allowed to communicate with anyone from the outside world besides my parents - not friends, family or anyone besides my parents & brothers.

After I began to advance in the program, I became one of its most vocal supporters. I was notorious for giving "hardcore" feedback to new girls, and "not taking any crap," from anyone not subscribing to the program's mantras. I became a bloodthirsty Pitt Bull - anxiously awaiting the opportunity to tear another girl down, the way that I had been torn down before. I'm sure that I probably caused a lot of girl's pain, and this is something that I feel intensely remorseful for to this day.

After I had been at CCM for 10 months or so, I was on level five and able to take an off-grounds pass with my family. I missed my family so much by that point that I thought I might break in two. The pass really broke down a lot of the brainwashing, and I eventually reached a point where I felt  I would literally go insane if I had to remain in the program.

 Basically, I cracked - one night I spent three hours pacing around my room trying to figure out how I was possibly going to complete the program without losing my mind. by then, I was 18, and was able to walk out of the program if wanted to - however, my parents had made it clear that they would not let me come home if I left Cross Creek without completing the program.

My "exit plan" was pretty similar to other kids  in WWASP programs - if I decided to leave after I turned 18, I would get $10 in my pocket and a bus ticket to Denver (not Houston, my native city), and my parents would not accept me back in their house.

So, back to that night when I lost it - I eventually decided, after a couple of hours of pacing, that I had to leave the program, despite the fact that I would probably be homeless.

 I went to the head staff and told her I wanted to leave. She attempted to change my mind for an hour or so, but I wouldn't be swayed. Then my parents were called. We had a gut-wrenching phone conversation during which my mother said "goodbye" - at that moment she believed that she was talking to me for the last time. After my parents couldn't get me to change my mind, my 17 year-old brother, Cory, was put on the phone. I remember him sobbing and pleading with me not to leave the program, because he "didn't want me to die." I cried my eyes out during all of this, but still, my parents and I held firm. after a few hours of this, I spoke to my case manager, and she told me that I could still change my mind. I was petrified of  being abandoned in a foreign city (not to mention the fact that I had no way of contacting any of my other family members, since it was forbidden to record any phone numbers), so I acquiesced, and remained at Cross Creek.

After this incident, I was ostracized and forced to "regain trust" from my group members.. If I had been under 18, I would have been dropped down to level one, but due to my age, I was allowed to remain on probationary status at level five. After a couple of weeks of groveling and enduring numerous group sessions during which I was the object of ridicule and criticism, I eventually convinced Garth and the rest of the high phase girls that I was "ready to work."

And so, I was cemented into the system -I was completely brainwashed into thinking the program had saved my life and that I would be dead if my parents had never sent me there (the same robotic mantra of all brainwashed WWASP kids). I became a cruel and ruthless high phase girl - like the ones who had hurt me when I was new at CCM, and I extolled the virtues of the program that had caused irrevocable damage to my soul.

The rest of my incarceration at Cross Creek was fairly smooth, and I graduated two months before my19th birthday. Afterwards, I returned to Houston to live with my parents for a couple of months before being accepted to the University of Texas - Arlington
I entered college a completely conflicted, damaged, neurotic, depressed and anxious person - with the next few years ahead of me to experience levels of depravity that I never came close to prior to my incarceration at CCM. I don't feel comfortable getting into all those details now, but suffice it to say, that the program DIDN'T work. To this day, my parents still do not  believe me when I try to tell them about what went on at CCM. The fact that they take the program's side over mine - their own daughter - is something that I will probably feel and carry with me for the rest of my life.

Please Contact Kelly Adams for any questions for comments at the email above.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Logged

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: blog of a program parent
« Reply #157 on: April 04, 2009, 09:15:22 PM »
Micheal Carter wrote a response to all the attention he's be getting:
I must say I am dissapointed only one person contacted him AND NO  ONE tried to get in touch with Katie or her brothers (or am i wrong?). I don't understand why people will take the time to post on this thread, but not email Micheal or Diane or Katie.

http://parents-of-a-troubled-teen.blogspot.com/

Interesting to get some feedback NOW
 
Hmmmmm - life never ceases to amaze me.

I started this Blog over four years ago, to share what we were going through. For quite a while, I updated it regularly. Now that Katie is home and we are no longer in the program, I suddenly seem to be getting some feedback on it.

First, I apologize to the few people who have actually read this, that I am not updating it regularly any more. Situations and lives change, and our family is no longer in the same position that it was when I started this. I'd like make a committment to update this more, but in all honesty that isn't something I can do at this point in my life. I will not make an agreement that I cannot keep.

Marie - thanks for reading. I have really enjoyed sharing more with you, and hearing about how things are going with your family.

Tortured - please address any feedback to THIS blog, not my personal one. My personal one is my own thoughts / ideas / feelings unrelated to the program.

I'd like to point out that I am not on a campaign to recruit for nor to discredit the school that Katie attended, nor the affiliation to which it belonged. I have openly and honestly talked about our family here and what went on there.

I will state that my daughter was not tortured, nor abused in any way. I have been to the school, I have met the people who interacted with her every day. While it was no resort, they did nothing wrong in my opinion - and the opinions of others based on their experiences will not change that.

Our program journey is basically over. The destination we arrived at was not what I had hoped for, I will grant that. However I do not spend my time worrying about it after the fact.

I felt four plus years ago, and still feel now, that this was the best thing we could do for Katie. I don't feel that the results were what we wanted, but things could not continue in our home the way they had been going.

So yes, I have been through the program. I have seen the schools. I have seen some of the sites that are attacking them. I have read some of the books attacking the programs. I feel it is a shame that so many people attack these, while the quiet majority of those involved with them simply go on with their lives. There are so many power plays and political struggles that end up going on, and so many of them that, in the end, are backed purely by money, that it sometimes makes me sick. Are these programs for everyone - of course not. Do they help everyone - obviously not. Are some people against them - well of course.

The only question (rhetorical though it is) that I have for all the opponents to these schools is simply - what alternative do you propose? I simply see so many people that work so hard to tear down a given institution that is attempting to do some good, without offering anything better.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Logged

Offline TheWho

  • Posts: 7256
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: blog of a program parent
« Reply #158 on: April 04, 2009, 09:44:26 PM »
Quote
This weeks update wasn't good news. Katie is still really struggling - she got over 800 demerits again last week.

But getting 3 Cat 3's in one day is ridiculous. (Out of area, major disrespect, and dropping the 'F' bomb).

Whoops, not Katies fault again! It must be the abusive program or her parents again.  Must be her parents fault or younger brother who she will continue to abuse when she gets home.  Poor Katie.  I am sure as we allread thru this we can all see it was her parents all along that caused all of this.  Katie should be preparing for Harvard about now but she was plucked from society and forced into Cross Creek for no reason.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Logged

Offline FemanonFatal2.0

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 548
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: blog of a program parent
« Reply #159 on: April 04, 2009, 11:32:46 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "NeilW"
Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"
What I would like to know is why you, NeilW, have such an interest in our forum and what program you are affiliated with and why you think the kind of "treatment" in these programs is appropriate. Furthermore I would like to know if you have children, and if you have at any point placed them in a program. I know these questions have been asked before and you blatantly skirt them, and I assume cowardliness is just another perk of your refined personality but I think it would only be fair that you reveal your reasoning for being so cold toward us and the children we are advocating for.

I have several children and have had a child in a program.  If I seem cold towards you it is because I have seen the bias of how parents are treated vs kids on this forum.  I find it hard to believe that you say who you are.  People that I have known who studied psychology don’t go around calling other people names.  I also find it hard to believe that you know the names of people who force kids to eat feces and vomit and urinate on them.  It seems that within the confines of this forum stories like this are accepted at face value.

Those "stories" are from 1000s of survivors, have been submitted under penalty of perjury, during in the course of lawsuits,criminal investigations, congressional hearings. They have been presented to Feds and have put more than one WWASP manager in the clink and have closed down several WWASP torture chamers. (mostly overseas by countries not bought by David Gilcrease and his evil child murdering henchmen) Time to stop calling them stories, who.

FEMANON, contact Kaite, or her brothers. Do something helpful instead of wasting time with thewho, please, ::poke::  :soapbox:

Already found her, contacted her and just waiting for a response. Katie's Myspace

NeilW,

I actually think your questioning here is a valid one, because I can understand to outsiders it may be hard to distinguish that we all went to different programs and speak of different experiences in different settings. If you would have read the thread I provided for you it makes that clear. But this is my point, the program parents tend to generalize our arguments (as a whole) and assume that we are exaggerating, instead of ask us, (or even give a rats ass) about our personal experience. My personal experience was at both a main facility called Casa By The Sea and a "boot-camp" called High Impact. Some say High Impact could very well have been one of the worst programs in the history of the Troubled Teen Industry. Is there a BIG difference between the program I went to and Cross Creek? Yes, indeed there is. In fact because CBS miserably failed at giving me any education or any therapy, my case manager admitted that Cross Creek would have been better for me, unfortunately my mother didn't have that kind of money and by then, it was too late, I was already a shell of a human being. Lets also not forget that Cross Creek is WWASP's poster child program and is very much not relative to the other program's at least when it comes to physical abuse. However, I believe, from the survivors who I know who went to cross creek, the psychological abuse is far more prominent, and for some, that can do just as much psychological damage.

I'd like to address one thing, my personal opinions are not always sided with the majority of those of the other people on this forum. I try as often as I can to be diplomatic and represent my side of this issue with tact and respect, however sometimes, when dealing with program supporters, I just get angry. Think of it this way, it would be like if this were a forum where rape victims came to talk, and often men who had raped women before came to the site to argue with us about how we (or their victims) somehow deserved it. What comes to mind is "she was asking for it"... That is exactly how we feel when you people come here and call us liars, and say that we and the other teens who were abused in the programs deserved that kind of treatment. It really just boils my blood, because I know in my case, I was a victim of abuse (yes, I was one of those who they tried to force to eat vomit), and my mom was genuinely sucked into the cult that told her to keep me there despite evidence that the program was not for me. I speak out in order for that to not happen again. I think the only teenage kids who really need any kind of "help" are those who are either genuinely addicted to hard drugs or have serious mental problems, and in either case I would NEVER recommend a program. The programs are not designed to handle these cases anyway, in fact they are simply designed to keep normal adolescent behavior criminalized, (to make the parents feel "right" about their children being the enemy) but offer no real help at all. That is the reason that Katie came home with the same problems she had before (plus more) because the program doesn't really do what the marketing materials say they do. Their methods are flawed and for the fact that they have no medical or therapeutic basis in the first place should realistically be all the proof you parents need to see this is simply an elaborate con job! The children (in ALL WWASP programs) are all mistreated, subjected to countless human rights violations, psychological torment and in some cases physical torture. We stand up because on so many levels this is just wrong and every time we realize that there are still kids out there being abused, it pulls at our heart strings and we are compelled to continue doing what we can to bring about change in this industry. All we want is to protect the future generations from experiencing the abuse we suffered, and I just don't understand why you program supporters want to fight us on that, especially when we are fighting for the safety of YOUR children.

What if your kid came home right now and told you that a program staff physically tortured him and made him eat his own vomit. What would be your response to that? Would you assume he is lying? Or if you could confirm that it indeed happened would you rationalize that he had done something either before the program or while he was there that would have warranted that kind of abuse? Because that is exactly what you are saying to us.

Another thing, I do not know the names of the people who directly abused me, they are citizens of Mexico and I would have no way of tracking them down and confronting them, however if I could I would and I would do everything in my power to see that charges were pressed against them. I do however know the names of the people who contracted my abuse and I have been in a lawsuit against them for the last 3 years. Believe me, I am doing everything I can (within the law) to bring my abusers to justice. However I don't find it healthy to be focusing on revenge, instead I devote myself to this cause and do what I can to spread public awareness. This, ironically has been the best therapy I could have asked for and helped me put my life in perspective and plan for a future doing something that really matters. Some of you make the argument that there are no other alternative to these kinds of programs, well that is exactly what I hope to do with my life. After I have accumulated the appropriate amount of education and qualifications to be working with teens, and provided my financial situation improves, I plan to start community centers that offer all kinds of services for teens and struggling families. None of which would take the child out of the home, except for cases of detox or need of medical treatment.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Logged
[size=150]When Injustice Becomes Law
...Rebellion Becomes Duty...[/size]



[size=150]WHEN THE RAPTURE COMES
CAN I HAVE YOUR FLAT SCREEN?[/size]

Offline FemanonFatal2.0

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 548
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: blog of a program parent
« Reply #160 on: April 04, 2009, 11:54:37 PM »
I certainly don't hate all parents, and I am not delusional about what a pain in the ass teenagers can be, but what you must understand is that people who, despite the information we are giving them decide to degrade us and support the abuse we are trying to fight, don't exactly earn any respect from us. I have always been in support of the two sides of the issue debating for the sake of understanding but in most cases, with the amount of brainwashing considered here its hard for us to talk ANY sense into these people, so we just assume they are abusive people if they so zealously support abuse in the programs. What I don't understand however, despite loyalty to the program, why parents aren't siding with us more often, for the simple fact that we are trying to use examples of past transgressions to keep these programs in line, and to protect the children. Why would a program parent EVER be threatened by that? Instead you would rather blind yourself to the truth of the past and the possibility abuse in the program now all because you don't want to be considered to be aligned with us?... What is wrong with establishing standards and rules that these programs HAVE to follow when treating your kid? Don't you WANT your child to be treated by professionals instead of the Mexicans, Jamaicans or hillbilly locals they pull off the street? Don't you want there to be restrictions on how and why they can physically subdue your child? Don't you think its a good idea that the education, medical and health standards of the U.S. are met? Don't you people want the safety and basic human rights of your children protected? furthermore, What is wrong with recommending the programs that refuse to follow these basic standards, to be shut down, and the staff who were abusive brought to justice? Forgive me for assuming that most program parents are abusive, I know that's a generalization but this issue is so important to me that I have dedicated my life and my dreams to it, and when people like you can't understand where we are coming from, its just easier to write you off then to care about what you think.

I'm sorry guys, I do enjoy feeding trolls sometimes.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Logged
[size=150]When Injustice Becomes Law
...Rebellion Becomes Duty...[/size]



[size=150]WHEN THE RAPTURE COMES
CAN I HAVE YOUR FLAT SCREEN?[/size]

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: blog of a program parent
« Reply #161 on: April 05, 2009, 12:01:36 AM »
Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"
I certainly don't hate all parents, and I am not delusional about what a pain in the ass teenagers can be, but what you must understand is that people who, despite the information we are giving them decide to degrade us and support the abuse we are trying to fight, don't exactly earn any respect from us. I have always been in support of the two sides of the issue debating for the sake of understanding but in most cases, with the amount of brainwashing considered here its hard for us to talk ANY sense into these people, so we just assume they are abusive people if they so zealously support abuse in the programs. What I don't understand however, despite loyalty to the program, why parents aren't siding with us more often, for the simple fact that we are trying to use examples of past transgressions to keep these programs in line, and to protect the children. Why would a program parent EVER be threatened by that? Instead you would rather blind yourself to the truth of the past and the possibility abuse in the program now all because you don't want to be considered to be aligned with us?... What is wrong with establishing standards and rules that these programs HAVE to follow when treating your kid? Don't you WANT your child to be treated by professionals instead of the Mexicans, Jamaicans or hillbilly locals they pull off the street? Don't you want there to be restrictions on how and why they can physically subdue your child? Don't you think its a good idea that the education, medical and health standards of the U.S. are met? Don't you people want the safety and basic human rights of your children protected? furthermore, What is wrong with recommending the programs that refuse to follow these basic standards, to be shut down, and the staff who were abusive brought to justice? Forgive me for assuming that most program parents are abusive, I know that's a generalization but this issue is so important to me that I have dedicated my life and my dreams to it, and when people like you can't understand where we are coming from, its just easier to write you off then to care about what you think.

I'm sorry guys, I do enjoy feeding trolls sometimes.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Logged

Offline Ursus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8989
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
Re: blog of a program parent
« Reply #162 on: April 05, 2009, 01:51:46 AM »
^^^^  Very clever, that...

 ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Logged
-------------- • -------------- • --------------

Offline FemanonFatal2.0

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 548
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: blog of a program parent
« Reply #163 on: April 05, 2009, 02:12:45 AM »
look I get it, you all think that every pro program person that comes here to argue with us is TheWho, and while that very well might be the case this persons arguments are a good representation of the "program parents" argument in general, and I find it important to address that logic and explain my own.

There is a reason people just assume we are being asshole little teenagers here because sometimes you people act like it, giving short little "fuck you"'s instead of debating your position with diplomacy. So what if hes a troll, We have every right to state our position if we choose to. If we ignored every troll, or otherwise any one with a different opinion here at Fornits this forum would be pretty lame don't you think?...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Logged
[size=150]When Injustice Becomes Law
...Rebellion Becomes Duty...[/size]



[size=150]WHEN THE RAPTURE COMES
CAN I HAVE YOUR FLAT SCREEN?[/size]

Offline TheWho

  • Posts: 7256
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: blog of a program parent
« Reply #164 on: April 05, 2009, 09:47:52 AM »
Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"
What I don't understand however, despite loyalty to the program, why parents aren't siding with us more often, for the simple fact that we are trying to use examples of past transgressions to keep these programs in line, and to protect the children. Why would a program parent EVER be threatened by that? Instead you would rather blind yourself to the truth of the past and the possibility abuse in the program now all because you don't want to be considered to be aligned with us?...

I think you may know the answer to this, femanon.  Within my first 10 minutes on fornits I knew I was being conned.  There is a deception within fornits that is felt almost immediately.  Let me give you an example.

News item:  “Child is raped by their teacher”.  Now this is a headline.  What typically follows is something like this:

A 14 year old male child came forward today in Oklahoma City to report that he had sex with his teacher at the middle school.  The child was reportedly taken to the teachers home on occasion also.  The teacher, Mrs Harriet Beecher, was placed on administrative leave until further notice.
On Fornits most posters try to spin it like this:

Dont send your kids to public school gulags because the teachers are raping “all” the kids, kidnapping them and raping them in remote locations.

If a reader asks which programs are affected the poster get the response “All the programs and staff do this”.  It would be easy to say that “Tranquility Bay” had reported 2 rapes and has since closed but we never heard of one at Cross creek for example, but there is such a desperate effort to discredit “all” the programs that allegations are overstated to the point where they are no longer believable.

The new reader coming to fornits knows that 10,000 kids were not raped and forced to eat their feces in gulags.  I mean come on, just by using the word Gulag adds a fairy tale feel to the whole story with an ogre in the basement waiting to rape the children.  But the average fornits poster is so rapped up in their hatred of programs that they try to make others believe this and by doing so discredits themselves.  

So now we need to ask ourselves:  “If the poster is being dishonest about information regarding rapes in programs how do we know they are being honest in their personal accounts of what they experienced within the program?”  Where does the deception end and the truth begin?

In my opinion fornits would be so much more effective if the posters were just honest right up front.  Parents would probably stay long and research information they felt was credible.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 9 10 [11] 12 13 ... 23   Go Up
« previous next »