Author Topic: Passages Malibu (Read 1735 times)

Anonymous · « **on:** March 01, 2009, 08:40:47 PM »

There's a new one called "Passages" in Malibu, at least new to me. Some guy named Chris Prentiss who wrote a book and is advertising regularly on CNN so I guess he's got some backing. I have no idea what it's about, he's claiming AA and the disease concept are wrong. I like the disease concept be it true or false because it was a good argument against imprisoning people for drugs (drug addiction is a disease so it shouldn't be treated as a moral issue, not a medical one). This was the premise of Prop. 5 in California, which unfortunately lost but did have alot of support.

Anonymous · « **Reply #1 on:** March 01, 2009, 08:43:53 PM »

Sorry, forgot the URL on Passages - http://www.passagesmalibu.com/

Ursus · « **Reply #2 on:** March 01, 2009, 09:14:59 PM »

Passages Malibu is mentioned in the article Going Undercover at Impact House by Mark Groubert. It is also the subject matter, in part, of the book Buying the Cure at Passages Malibu and Rehab or Bust: A Guide to L.A.'s Drug and Alcohol Treatment Centers, written by the same author.

The following post was originally from the comments section when "Going Undercover..." was first published:

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=26143&p=318812#p318824

psy · « **Reply #3 on:** March 02, 2009, 03:31:38 PM »

Quote from: "ftw"

I like the disease concept be it true or false because it was a good argument against imprisoning people for drugs

And a good argument for "treating" people against their will (since they have a "disease" they're not really in control, so taking away their rights is really giving them back "control"). Tell me what is the real difference between imprisonment in prison and impirsonment + re-education in a state "rehab" program?

Anonymous · « **Reply #4 on:** March 02, 2009, 04:04:37 PM »

Quote from: "psy"

Quote from: "ftw"
I like the disease concept be it true or false because it was a good argument against imprisoning people for drugs

And a good argument for "treating" people against their will (since they have a "disease" they're not really in control, so taking away their rights is really giving them back "control"). Tell me what is the real difference between imprisonment in prison and impirsonment + re-education in a state "rehab" program?

Any mental disorder and many physical disorders render people not fully in control of their behavior. The significant thing about keeping people out of medical confinement are laws clarifying that unless a person is an immediate and significant danger to themselves or others they cannot be held against their will, and if a danger, they be held only for a short time, until the crisis passes

psy · « **Reply #5 on:** March 02, 2009, 06:21:40 PM »

Quote from: "Guest"

Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "ftw"
I like the disease concept be it true or false because it was a good argument against imprisoning people for drugs

And a good argument for "treating" people against their will (since they have a "disease" they're not really in control, so taking away their rights is really giving them back "control"). Tell me what is the real difference between imprisonment in prison and impirsonment + re-education in a state "rehab" program?

Any mental disorder and many physical disorders render people not fully in control of their behavior. The significant thing about keeping people out of medical confinement are laws clarifying that unless a person is an immediate and significant danger to themselves or others they cannot be held against their will, and if a danger, they be held only for a short time, until the crisis passes

Yes, but programs parents argue all the time that their kids were in an immediate and significant danger. It's a "progressive and fatal disease" you know. People *are* sentenced to forced treatment all the time regardless of whether it's technically "legal" or not, just as people are sentenced to mandatory AA despite the fact that the supreme court has dictated it to be religious (not spiritual). The rationale is that it "works" even though studies such as that by Jeffery Brandsma show it does not. Not everybody can afford an attorney and if you're stuck with an incompetant public defender a person might never find out what his legal rights are.

Anonymous · « **Reply #6 on:** March 02, 2009, 08:20:44 PM »

I think you are all trying hard to apply your anti-program bias towards aspects of life which are not compatible with this analogy. In doing so it makes you appear less than credible, or to be more blunt, kind of kooky.

Now I know about what goes on in programs, and I know what goes in AA meetings. The two are completely different. I'm not seeing restraints leading to suffocation happening in AA when someone chooses not to share, or go on a five mile hike. I haven't heard about stress positions in AA meetings, or anything that could be viewed as abusive in the realm of what goes on inside of unregulated programs.

In perpetuating this one-size-fits-all interpretation to all of life's problems it only harms the cause and continues to alienates any new participants waiting on the sidelines.

The goals of some here are lofty. I'd be happy with a cessation to the murders and forced abductions and incarcerations. I'll leave the kinda-program-like, but-not abusive stuff to you all.

I'm sorry but I have to go find a forum filled with more... rational thought. The conspiracies and paranoia emanating from Fornits recently do not fit with what I'm trying to do. I wish you all good luck in your ventures to enlighten the world on the dangers of AA, but let's try not to forget the pressing issue at hand while doing so.

psy · « **Reply #7 on:** March 02, 2009, 08:28:45 PM »

Just because I have certain opinions about programs does not mean I cannot have opinions about AA or forced treatment in general. To say I must shut up about such subjects makes you sound kinda culty. (disclaimer: AA is not a cult... technically).

If you're heading away from Fornits Just because some people disagree with you (instead of injecting your own opinion)... good luck in the real world! My opinions hardly represent everybody here so don't blame the rest of the forums for my textual meanderings.

Anonymous · « **Reply #8 on:** March 02, 2009, 08:40:39 PM »

Quote from: "Guest"

Now I know about what goes on in programs, and I know what goes in AA meetings. The two are completely different. I'm not seeing restraints leading to suffocation happening in AA when someone chooses not to share, or go on a five mile hike. I haven't heard about stress positions in AA meetings, or anything that could be viewed as abusive in the realm of what goes on inside of unregulated programs.

My guess is that if you were in a program you were not in one based on AA (such as Straight). If you were, you might see some similarities (not that they are the same).

Either way; If your parents didn't believe your drug use was progressive and fatal, chances are you wouldn't have been sent to a program. Most program parents i've met are/were devout steppers.

Anonymous · « **Reply #9 on:** March 02, 2009, 08:51:27 PM »

It could offend me to see people persist in patently false beliefs, and it could annoy me to have programs misrepresented and minimized, and it could annoy me that people could be so friggin stupid...Wait? where was I going with this? OH yea, its the internet. Oh ,yea, its fornits. Go a couple subforums down,a rape victim is being taunted. Significantly lower your expectations. Go from there

Anonymous · « **Reply #10 on:** March 02, 2009, 09:10:49 PM »

Quote from: "Guest"

Quote from: "Guest"
Now I know about what goes on in programs, and I know what goes in AA meetings. The two are completely different. I'm not seeing restraints leading to suffocation happening in AA when someone chooses not to share, or go on a five mile hike. I haven't heard about stress positions in AA meetings, or anything that could be viewed as abusive in the realm of what goes on inside of unregulated programs.

My guess is that if you were in a program you were not in one based on AA (such as Straight). If you were, you might see some similarities (not that they are the same).

Either way; If your parents didn't believe your drug use was progressive and fatal, chances are you wouldn't have been sent to a program. Most program parents i've met are/were devout steppers.

Straight is based on AA like Straight is based on therapy, like rape is based on sex, like pryor was based on crack. Maybe not that last one. Basically, psycho crazy person started a brainwashing, money making machine. Supposedly programs (including straight) are based on cognitive behavioral therapy. But what crazy-person claims to "base" something on, or practice, and what crazy persno actually does, are quite different fish . True story. tonight at 11

psy · « **Reply #11 on:** March 02, 2009, 09:14:51 PM »

Quote from: "Guest"

Go a couple subforums down,a rape victim is being taunted. Significantly lower your expectations. Go from there

Well then quit bitching and defend him/her. Seems to me like you're too focused on the negative.... hee hee...

psy · « **Reply #12 on:** March 02, 2009, 09:18:46 PM »

Quote from: "Guest"

It could offend me to see people persist in patently false beliefs

Such as?

Anonymous · « **Reply #13 on:** March 02, 2009, 10:46:58 PM »

Quote from: "Guest"

I think you are all trying hard to apply your anti-program bias towards aspects of life which are not compatible with this analogy. In doing so it makes you appear less than credible, or to be more blunt, kind of kooky.

Now I know about what goes on in programs, and I know what goes in AA meetings. The two are completely different. I'm not seeing restraints leading to suffocation happening in AA when someone chooses not to share, or go on a five mile hike. I haven't heard about stress positions in AA meetings, or anything that could be viewed as abusive in the realm of what goes on inside of unregulated programs.

In perpetuating this one-size-fits-all interpretation to all of life's problems it only harms the cause and continues to alienates any new participants waiting on the sidelines.

The goals of some here are lofty. I'd be happy with a cessation to the murders and forced abductions and incarcerations. I'll leave the kinda-program-like, but-not abusive stuff to you all.

I'm sorry but I have to go find a forum filled with more... rational thought. The conspiracies and paranoia emanating from Fornits recently do not fit with what I'm trying to do. I wish you all good luck in your ventures to enlighten the world on the dangers of AA, but let's try not to forget the pressing issue at hand while doing so.

if this is ftw, please stick around. whoever this is, stick around. this is the only forum i know of for discussion of this sort of thing, and it needs to stay active. if you think this is bad...pfft, come one, be glad you missed thewho

Anonymous · « **Reply #14 on:** March 04, 2009, 11:06:13 AM »

I don't necessarily have an "anti-program" bias, in fact I am just one looking for the solution. The Penn & Teller video Psy or someone posted elsewhere had a very good point - none of these programs seem to adjust themselves according to results they see with their "graduates". CEDU would adjust itself according to their in-house population I think but once you were gone, you were gone. I am strongly interested in those denying the disease concept because we now have strong evidence that it is true. I am very involved politically in decriminalization because American constantly fills their prisons with people due to drug charges (I don't maintain that someone who is on drugs and kills or steals should be "forgiven" obviously). But what do we do with these people? You can say drug use is ok, you seem to be ok doing it, but there are many seriously screwed up people too. How are they justly to be handled? Does the state open up a bunch of treatment centers and how are these to be run? AA/NA? I don't find much support for those here, but what is the answer? Manson says you put the temptation in front of someone and tell them not to do it, they'll do it. Do we take a state and go to whatever lengths to insure there are no drugs there, censor the media and send addicts there to live otherwise normal lives - no records or prison terms? I don't know.

Quote from: "Guest"

I think you are all trying hard to apply your anti-program bias towards aspects of life which are not compatible with this analogy. In doing so it makes you appear less than credible, or to be more blunt, kind of kooky.

Now I know about what goes on in programs, and I know what goes in AA meetings. The two are completely different. I'm not seeing restraints leading to suffocation happening in AA when someone chooses not to share, or go on a five mile hike. I haven't heard about stress positions in AA meetings, or anything that could be viewed as abusive in the realm of what goes on inside of unregulated programs.

In perpetuating this one-size-fits-all interpretation to all of life's problems it only harms the cause and continues to alienates any new participants waiting on the sidelines.

The goals of some here are lofty. I'd be happy with a cessation to the murders and forced abductions and incarcerations. I'll leave the kinda-program-like, but-not abusive stuff to you all.

I'm sorry but I have to go find a forum filled with more... rational thought. The conspiracies and paranoia emanating from Fornits recently do not fit with what I'm trying to do. I wish you all good luck in your ventures to enlighten the world on the dangers of AA, but let's try not to forget the pressing issue at hand while doing so.

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