Author Topic: Jeez Survivors  (Read 5941 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Jeez Survivors
« on: January 03, 2009, 08:33:51 AM »
I have been watching the board on the sidelines for awhile now. I can't believe how rough you all still are on each other. I have seen survivors rip new board comers to part for the simplist post. I've seen people rip Richard, Marti apart and yet they are the very ones that got all of you out. I have seen people say nasty things about those two and many others especially new people to the board. It is no wonder that few survivors get better. I applaud that we have this board but I would have thought after all this time, survivors would be more compassionate an understanding with each other. A friend told me to post here is to take you life in your own hands (rofl). What they meant is , that no matter how well intentioned the post the poster will be ripped to shreds or called a liar or just plain put through the coals for even saying anything. Even if that post was about something as mundane as how is the weather.
Ginger perhaps there is a way to make a board for those that wish to truly get better and for those that wish to try and help each other deal with issues.
There are some good post here too so I do not mean to say it is all negative. I didnt want to post but felt i should. Ok floor is open have me  for lunch.
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Offline psy

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Re: Jeez Survivors
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2009, 09:28:16 AM »
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline wdtony

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Re: Jeez Survivors
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2009, 03:49:34 AM »
Quote from: "GuestSurvivorOfSt"
I have been watching the board on the sidelines for awhile now. I can't believe how rough you all still are on each other. I have seen survivors rip new board comers to part for the simplist post. I've seen people rip Richard, Marti apart and yet they are the very ones that got all of you out. I have seen people say nasty things about those two and many others especially new people to the board. It is no wonder that few survivors get better. I applaud that we have this board but I would have thought after all this time, survivors would be more compassionate an understanding with each other. A friend told me to post here is to take you life in your own hands (rofl). What they meant is , that no matter how well intentioned the post the poster will be ripped to shreds or called a liar or just plain put through the coals for even saying anything. Even if that post was about something as mundane as how is the weather.
Ginger perhaps there is a way to make a board for those that wish to truly get better and for those that wish to try and help each other deal with issues.
There are some good post here too so I do not mean to say it is all negative. I didnt want to post but felt i should. Ok floor is open have me  for lunch.


There is a multitude of good information here. Unfortunately, it can be a program's dream or nightmare depending on the dynamics of the posts. The biggest problem I have here is with the anonymous posting. I can understand in some cases where posting anonymous would be acceptable, but when people misuse this function and attack people as if they were someone other than themselves, it seems to do more harm than good. If the people who post here on Fornits were at least held accountable for what they write, I think it would be a great improvement. I have seen other forums that won't allow me to do anything unless I register and provide my information. I guess my suggestion would be to make only a few threads for guests that would like to post anonymously and if they wish to engage in other topics, they can register and have (ONE) identity. Anyone who posts as anonymous has no business attacking anyone, that is just allowing cowardice.

I like some aspects about this so-called biker bar, but I would like it more if it was a place for reasonable conversation where good people don't get scared off because the biker bar is full of children most of the time. Anonymity and confidentiality are the rules of programs, they like to keep everything hidden and "unknown". Programs like to keep their victims in an umbra and they do this by restricting information and hiding the true nature of themselves. Isn't this at least a weak argument to consider the damaging effects of an almost un-moderated forum? I am focusing on the negatives I see here without presenting the positives because I think the positives go without saying. I also wish people would stop attacking people and then running behind their "Survivor" status as a defense. That is a weak response. If anyone is so very hurt from the programs, which I think almost all of us were, don't go around picking fights and attacking people. Just because someone gets hurt really bad, it doesn't give them the right to treat people like shit, make piss-poor decisions and then not be held accountable because they are a "Survivor". This is insulting to everyone who has been in a program.

I guess the Original Poster hit a sore spot with me. I used to think there were provocateurs all over Fornits possibly working for programs, but now I think maybe it is just a bunch of immature antagonists that don't know how to direct their anger, inadvertantly or purposely eroding productive measures. If some people want to do this, that is fine by me, but I would rather it be contained chaos rather than open amongst all of Fornits. Good people will leave because of this, valuable people will leave and people who may have the ability and desire to aid us in our efforts to shut down programs will turn away. If this forum is for healing, then why are attacks allowed, if it is for activism, why is there so little rational discussion and action? I hate to think that Fornits hurts the very cause that it stands for. I would like to see a short, rational discussion about why allowing so many anonymous posters is accepted and if the positives outweigh the negatives.


I have expressed my dissent.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Jeez Survivors
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2009, 05:39:57 AM »
got me out? wtf? what sort of crap is that? got me out like as in rescued me?ummmm no didnt happen that way.I rescued me.Thats right ,self rescue ,the first thing you get taught in climbing school.straight fucked me.I 7 stepped,so I fucked them,then I had to unfuck me.I dont shred survivors.Why would I? To what end? What would be my profit motive?         I freed me.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Jeez Survivors
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2009, 11:46:09 AM »
When the cauldron under the gurgling mudbubbles explodes in Yellowstone, none of this board will matter anymore... :roflmao:

whenever I post anonymously as some name I come up with to suit my mood, I am not anonymous, I am posting as the person I feel like at the time. besides, everyone knows who I am when I post anyways, so what difference does it make?

I saw "cowardice" written, uh oh, like that poster knows all about that, right?  :roflmao:


you guys are a trip.. where's the addicted to Fornits emoticon?
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Offline psy

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Re: Jeez Survivors
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2009, 11:53:49 AM »
Just a note: this forum is not for healing specifically.  It's for open discusison of the issue with a similar function to alt.religion.scientology.  Similar to that group, you wouldn't' find many fragile ex-cult members there. You would find them on support groups, like those who exist for survivors of abuse in programs.

If you want a vacation in a moderated place to post with no personal attacks, try the facilities questions and answers forum, the CAN forum, or the new forum I started on troubled-teen-industry.com.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline mh1978

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Re: Jeez Survivors
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2009, 06:28:25 AM »
I agree with most of the first two posters. I have to say this though, Ginger is an avid believer in free speech and I have alot of respect for her for that, she has defended it to her own peril at times. However, we all must realize that with the freedom of free speech comes those that use words to help and those that use words to hurt. Gingers contribution to survivors I think is immeasureable. All survivors , or almost all have done what they can to help. As for me, all I did was close the program and help where I could over the years. I appreciate what guest said but I did only what I felt I had to at the time. No more, no less. Richard did the same thing, he and I did what we felt was right and what we felt we could do at the time. Often, I know I have felt that it wasn't enough. I know too that I regret anyone I hurt in Straight. I know that Sammy has put herself , her emotions on the line more than once, I know Mike has tackled his own reservations and stood up to them when the survivors needed him. I know Ginger has always been there providing what she can and many other survivors have done alot to help. Yes, there are those that do things that hurt more than help but I see those as wounded people that need the rest of us.I hope that came out right , I just meant that if we look at the attacks as coming from someone who is hurting we all might respond differently.
I agree that a board that is geared toward helping or offering a place where survivors can talk about what is going on with them without the fear of being torn apart is needed. The sad thing is I don't think any of us survived Straight with no damage, nor do I think that many of us would ever go to a counselor again. So, in that, Straight made sure not only to do permanent damage but to make sure we could never seek help for it either.So, we really only have each other.

If Ginger is willing to make another board, I would be willing to participate with it along with the second poster. We would need another name for the board though and I do think registeration is a plus.

Perhaps it could be a protected board of some sort where all could talk about what is going on with them the good and the bad and or make suggestions to help survivors get justice. That would be up to Ginger though.

I normally don't  post on here but maybe once a year or so. What we have to realize though as I said before I don;t think any of us came out smelling rosey from Straight therefore, all of us have issues that permanent, buttons that can be pushed, damage that really cant be fixed. That is the sad thing , Straight did do permanent damage to everyone not just emotional or mental but financial as well. So, there is a host of damage on this board and throwing that all together can get rough at times.
I don't think any of us are qualified to help fix what Straight did, but I do think we can listen to each other and try to help build each other up instead of tear each other down.

So, you will have to ask ginger if she can put a board like that up.
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Offline Antigen

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Utopia
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2009, 07:52:58 AM »
This is a fair question and I do respect and appreciate all of your views. The trouble is that what you're asking for can never be. Look here:

http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3 ... =firefox-a

There are sooooo many different ideas and definitions of Utopia, but only the Israeli government site seems to have something close to the original definition:

Quote from: "Department for Jewish Zionist Education"
Utopia - an imaginary plan for a perfect society, government etc. - - an imaginary concept that cannot exist in reality. Utopian – ideal, imaginary, illusory; unattainable in reality.

 If I were to try to host and moderate a forum just for program vets/survivors who want to help and support each other and never be unkind or hurtful, how do I determine who those people are? And even if I were somehow able to verify everyone's identities and good intentions at the moment they make application to join this exclusive clique, what the hell am I supposed to do when someone's in a fucked off mood and turns ugly? Thanks for all the high praise, but you must be out of your cotton pickin' mind if you think I'm able to do that! Shit! I don't think any human being is really capable of properly and gently judging others to that degree. But me? Ohhhh, fuck!  :timeout:

I have to go to work now. Maybe I'll come back and complete this thought, but for now the best I can offer you is that here there are no controls on information. State your name or not. Tell the truth or lie your ass off. Believe what you read or not. Not my call.
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Offline mh1978

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Re: Jeez Survivors
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2009, 08:45:46 AM »
I think your absolutely right Ginger however, I think maybe the second poster or relay it correctly. No, there is no way for you to monitor and determine those there to help not to mention it would be playing God. I think what they were asking for is a board where pehaps registration is required, no real verification (object being no guest post), then when registering maybe a note on the purpose of the board that its there for the help of survivors or however it would be put. Then leave the rest to the survivors and those survivors posting there if things got ugly could post replies saying that you know this or that is not helpful. The idea being that those registering would know that , that board is there to help the survivors deal with stuff, so only those that really want a place to talk or whatever have it and they have the backing of the other survivors / posters. I think the survivors should take "monitoring" part of it although i know to set one up you have to name an administrator.
Asking you to be judge, jury is not only unrealistic as you say but impossiable. I think they are just asking for another board where survivors can go where the atmosphere is a bit different.
You may be right that it may turn out just like another bar but then again , maybe not.You know i don't support clique's. We are all at different stages of getting over what happened to us. I think the other poster is asking for a board that the survivors monitor where someone can go where attacks won't really be supported by those on that board, does that make sense. I am finding it hard to describe what i think that poster is asking for and keep in mind I could be wrong about what they want.
Ginger , they are not words of kindness but words of truth and I mean that. We all need each other when it comes to dealing with Straight and you should be given kudos for all your efforts because you didnt have to do it, you didnt have to care, the same is true of Richard, Mike, Sammy etc . I think people should be know your efforts, I think survivors should know you care. I also think you deserve credit for all you have done. I have seen many get angry at you , me, richard other survivors but I am of the opinion that if those "angry" people got to know those they attack they might feel differently. You have been threatned with lawsuits and fought back and kept fornits up, which is why we are even able to discuss this, you have paid for alot of webspace and helped Wes with his site. That is something i respect alot. I have lost it on the board before because I am human but that is not my total make up. I think we as survivors should stress the good in our fellow survivors and not so much on the negative or what we disagree with it.

Anyway, if the second poster elaborates on what they want maybe that would help.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Jeez Survivors
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2009, 10:44:04 AM »
Quote from: "mh1978"
As for me, all I did was close the program and help where I could over the years.

Puh-leaze!

Let's pat ourselves on the back a bit more, how 'bout it?

You closed Straight fucking Incorporated, and I suppose you did it all by yourself?  Yeah, come to think of it I do remember you leading the assault on that Open Meeting, shooting Miller Newton in the face, and.........oh, I'm sorry, I'm just reminescing about things I would think about to get me through anothwer day at that hellhole---you know, the one you closed.

I'm not saying you haven't done anything to help, but I think it's just a tiny bit presumptuous of you to make the claim that "all I did was close the program".
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Jeez Survivors
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2009, 11:11:58 AM »
And another thing...... "STRAIGHT INC" is not closed, not really...

Same shit, different century.....
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Offline Antigen

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Re: Jeez Survivors
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2009, 12:22:35 PM »
MH, thanks so much for your kind words and good deeds. It just happens that, right now, I really needed to hear some of that.

As far as hosting a registered users only forum, I'm just not that interested. There's the Alumni list and I think Kathy has a forum set up on FICA, Kim/Todd have one for KNJ and there are probably a lot of others that I don't know about. That market is served.

And it's not really the conversation I want to have cause I'm just damaged that way. I'll drop in on those other forums and say hi once in awhile. Not saying my way is the only way or anything. Just that this here wild west anarchistic no holds barred approach is the one that intrigues me. Sure, it gets ugly much of the time. But what else can you expect of an honest conversation about the Program? A civil, pleasant conversation on this topic wouldn't have much real content.

Besides that, despite all the sincere displeasure and complaints, the fact is that these forums (though down in traffic lately for a variety of reasons) continue to be the most popular. Despite what people say, everyone loves a brawl. Add to that Al Capone's very wise observation that any publicity is good publicity. No matter what anyone says about the Program, even if it's a bald faced lie or an astounding example of self deception, they're talking about it and Google is finding those keywords. Even if someone can keep themselves thoroughly convinced that the Program is or was good, all sides and viewpoints are represented here and that has given the topic some credence that it might not otherwise have had. In other words, as long as people are talking about it no matter in what manner, then people are hearing/reading about it. Where 20 years ago nobody even believed us, now at least most people know that the Program exists even if they haven't quite wrapped their minds around the whole scope of it.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Jeez Survivors
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2009, 12:55:03 PM »
Quote from: "GuestSurvivorOfSt"
I have been watching the board on the sidelines for awhile now. I can't believe how rough you all still are on each other. I have seen survivors rip new board comers to part for the simplist post. I've seen people rip Richard, Marti apart and yet they are the very ones that got all of you out. I have seen people say nasty things about those two and many others especially new people to the board. It is no wonder that few survivors get better. I applaud that we have this board but I would have thought after all this time, survivors would be more compassionate an understanding with each other. A friend told me to post here is to take you life in your own hands (rofl). What they meant is , that no matter how well intentioned the post the poster will be ripped to shreds or called a liar or just plain put through the coals for even saying anything. Even if that post was about something as mundane as how is the weather.
Ginger perhaps there is a way to make a board for those that wish to truly get better and for those that wish to try and help each other deal with issues.
There are some good post here too so I do not mean to say it is all negative. I didnt want to post but felt i should. Ok floor is open have me  for lunch.
What's your point?  :rofl:
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Jeez Survivors
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2009, 01:28:47 PM »
Quote from: "O PLEEEEESE"
got me out? wtf? what sort of crap is that? got me out like as in rescued me?ummmm no didnt happen that way.I rescued me.Thats right ,self rescue ,the first thing you get taught in climbing school.straight fucked me.I 7 stepped,so I fucked them,then I had to unfuck me.I dont shred survivors.Why would I? To what end? What would be my profit motive?         I freed me.

 :cheers:  :rocker:  :tup:  :nods:  :notworthy:

I can appreciate what they've done 'for the cause' (as I can appreciate what many others have done also), but puleeeeeeeeeeeeze!  Neither had any part in 'getting me out' of anywhere.  What would prompt you to post such a thing?
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Offline Antigen

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Re: Jeez Survivors
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2009, 02:03:01 PM »
Jeeze! Maybe that comment wasn't directed to you personally? Honest to God, I know who said that and it's no bullshit. This person went to the authorities, along with a few others, and somehow actually got their attention. The Sarasota branch was shut down as a direct result of that action. Not only that but they also went on 60 Minutes and pressed the issue there. I saw that episode. I recognized a couple of the people. How many parents finally wised up and pulled their kids because of that? It's for real. We'll never know about all those kids who never even heard of Straight because of this person's efforts, but these folks absolutely did get people out in those ways. I happen to believe, though can't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they also personally helped individual friends either get out or survive once they got themselves out.

Why you lookin' ta pick a fight?
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